Possibility of AI B-17F/G and B-24H/J

[BlitzPig_EL]

3 hours ago, No.322_LuseKofte said:

Well then it is not a medium bomber.

 

Well, the Mossy is really in a class of it's own, isn't it?  Yes it has a good ordnance load, yes, it could bomb from medium altitude.  However it lacks defensive armament in it's "B" version, and it's good speed, for a bomber, would help with it's survivability, but, that speed would be useless in a traditional medium bomber role, and will not be of any help in this title at the altitudes typically used, as none of our maps are large enough for the Mosquito to use what speed it has to out distance an intercepting fighter before that fighter ran up against it's range limitations.  Do remember that the Mossie in the bomber role's biggest defense was simply running away.  I think the Mosquito is better classed as a high speed interdictor/attack/special ops aircraft, and that is where it will shine in the Great Battles series.

[Lusekofte]

51 minutes ago, Eisenfaustus said:

I like the BoBp planender very much as most tactical missions in that scenario were actually conducted by fighters.

Well I cannot argue about that. By late lw bomberpilots looked for other jobs. Some unsuccessfully converted to fighters or got transfered to places like Norway where they still could be used. 
I still think time era around Bobp allied medium bombers had great importance. We do not fly Bodenplatte missions online. No sp either. 
To me leaving bombers out make this sim less interesting. And by all means, if you want fighters only do not expect more than average 160 people on mp world wide anytime soon. 
Bombers bring in objective focused people. 

[Pict]

1 hour ago, Bremspropeller said:

 

On a server, dropping a 4000lb cookie from the tropopause would actually be more valuable.

Except the opposite side is all 262s, in which case youre ducked any way...

 

You could probably make your run into the target on the deck, then pop'n'drop in a dive, with egress also on the deck? Either way a 4000lb cookie would make a big difference on-line if you could land it on a target.

 

==============

 

Btw, is my eyes or are you sporting new glasses?  

Edited January 3, 2020 by Pict

[Bremspropeller]

Pop'n'drop is dangerous (call me!). Just killed myself yesterday, dropping an SC500 on 1s delay and not bringing enough smash to escape the blast.

With a 4000lb cookie, you could probably drop the thing inert and have it flatten an entire airfield on the roll...

 

Good spotting on the glasses. I figured I'd take the same pic here and on Discord.

And I guess Descartes was more a Wayfarer kind of dude...

[cardboard_killer]

3 hours ago, danielprates said:

 

Oh, I sure would have expected both, and more too! As Oscar Wilde said, I have the simplest of tastes: I am happy with merely the best.

 

I would put it like this.

 

 

[Sublime]

On 1/1/2020 at 11:25 AM, JG7_X-Man said:

In reading your comments - I think it's best to leave them out.

Also it's my opinion that a true combat box of  even 50 "Heavies" would validate the AI gunner hyper accuracy issue. I don't think anyone would be able to get through the barrage of fire.

 

We all know that was not the case: Remember the Regensburg and Schweinfurt raids?

 

This would also contradict the 8th's Air Force Commander, Maj. Gen. James H. Doolittle's own words:

 

In January 1944, the new commander of Eighth Air Force, Maj. Gen. James H. Doolittle, was visiting his subordinate commander, Maj. Gen. William A. Kepner, at VIII Fighter Command, when he noticed a slogan on the wall. It read: “The first duty of Eighth Air Force fighters is to bring the bombers back alive.” Kepner said the sign was there when he got there. Doolittle told him to take it down, that it was wrong.

A new sign went up: “The first duty of Eighth Air Force fighters is to destroy German fighters.”

This was considerably more than a moment of fighter pilot bravado. It marked a key change in strategy in the air war in Europe.

“As far as I’m concerned, this was the most important and far-reaching military decision I made during the war.” Doolittle said. “It was also the most controversial.”

The fighters were no longer constrained to holding close formation with bombers. Instead, they would fly ahead, look for German fighters, and attack them where they found them.

This strategem defeated the LW 

Interestingly and unsurprisingly it was totally unpopular with bomber crews until months showed after a month or two.  Doolittle really came close to being fragged for "freeing the fighters".  He received several death threats.

[LukeFF]

On 1/2/2020 at 10:57 AM, PatrickAWlson said:

For the bombers but with a more constrained definition of "turret".  Turret as in a mechanized housing that rotates as opposed to the game's definition of turret which is pretty much any gun sticking out of an aperture.  So the B25 has an actual dorsal turret.  The other bombers (as far as I am aware) just have gun positions.  

 

What I was asking was: are there any human playable turret positions in the game today or are they just all gun positions.  

 

Ah, gotcha. The Ju 52, Ju 87, and Il-2 M42 / M43 all have what I consider to be gun turrets, though some of them by nature are open to the elements.

[Pict]

4 hours ago, Bremspropeller said:

Pop'n'drop is dangerous (call me!). Just killed myself yesterday, dropping an SC500 on 1s delay and not bringing enough smash to escape the blast.

With a 4000lb cookie, you could probably drop the thing inert and have it flatten an entire airfield on the roll...

 

Ouch, 1 second delay is a little brave no? I was trying to dig into the background of the units equipped with cookies in this nice little colour clip...

 

 

...when I discovered that it had been taken from a documentary film called Mosquitos Airborne! which is well worth a watch, 56 minutes of goodness if you like Mosquito's. 

 

 

4 hours ago, Bremspropeller said:

Good spotting on the glasses. I figured I'd take the same pic here and on Discord.

And I guess Descartes was more a Wayfarer kind of dude...

 

Je regarde donc je vois...sometimes 

Edited January 3, 2020 by Pict

[Yogiflight]

37 minutes ago, LukeFF said:

 

Ah, gotcha. The Ju 52, Ju 87, and Il-2 M42 / M43 all have what I consider to be gun turrets, though some of them by nature are open to the elements.

Pe 2 ser. 110. But Ju 52 has the same machinegun like the He 111 H6, mounted on a hole in the top of the fuselage, just without the glass dome.

But I guess Patrick is more talking about electrically moved turrets like the B25s  (or B17/24) dorsal turret

[=621=Samikatz]

42 minutes ago, LukeFF said:

 

Ah, gotcha. The Ju 52, Ju 87, and Il-2 M42 / M43 all have what I consider to be gun turrets, though some of them by nature are open to the elements.

 

The WW1 two seaters have turrets you can turn all the way around!

[Uriah]

I remember flying European Air War.  Offline I would be part of a fighter escort to a bunch of B-17 bombers.  It was a lot of fun trying to keep those German fighters off the B-17s.  I had to learn just what to do to fend off the Germans but still keep up with the bombers.   I suspect trying to do any such thing to get the amount of people to just fly the fighters would be difficult.  But I am thinking that OFF LINE play would be fun.  Maybe online play like this is just not able to be done now.  But maybe off line could be done. 

[[=PzG=]-Southernbear]

The only reason I would vouch for Heavies to be put into the game (if it were possible) is to change up the style of game play now we are getting much more Western front attention.

In the East the Germans had clear technological and by proxy, altitude advantage but whats the point at buzzing around at 6km in your 109 if the IL-2s and Pe 2s are at 1 to 2km busting up your tanks?

 

You see this 'Eric Hartmann' mentality with new players who think well....the 109 is better high up so I'll use it like that and they spend their time up there at 6 to 7km while the Russians clean house below them out of spotting range...you saw this IRL and you saw this on Wings of Liberty a few years back where the Russians would just clean house every month

 

Now on the Western front they HAD to go high because first the Battle of Britain forced the British to go up to the He 111s and Do's to face them and then visa versa with the B-17/24 raids

 

If heavies were added it would mean people would have a reason to go to 4, 5 even 6km and really use the P-51, Tempest and P-38 to their full potential

It would also (and yes I am Biased for this bit because I fly it a lot) give my damn 262 something meaty to shoot at...I can kill fighters and such fine but engagements are few and far between and while I drool over watching IL-2 1946 gameplay of 262s intercepting bomber streams the game is really a little too old for my HOTAS and TrackIR stuff to work properly on it

 

Although this same issue is also a blessing as its why I am hyped for BoN because while I love the 262 just like IRL, in the tactical role, it's bombload is kinda poor so the Ar 234 will make a GREAT plane to have fun in and still be useful to the match with it's 1,500kg bomb load 

[Ribbon]

On 1/2/2020 at 7:39 PM, LukeFF said:

 

Considering that the Germans are receiving 2 new bombers in BoN, I can't agree with that (that's how the Me 410 was used in large part in 1944, by KG 51). Yes, the lack of a new Allied level bomber is disappointing, but I have confidence that either the B-25 or B-26 will be modeled as flyable at some point.

Me410 and arado are more light bombers/heavy fighters but nice addition i can't say they aren't, alas when i see their fighter-like cockpit it is a big turnoff for me when it comes to bomber immersion.

What is missing and would give closest feel to heavy bombers would be flayable B-25/26 with it's nice bomber cockpits and copilot/crew.

It would give new dimension to il2 and mask the lack of heavies.

Good example is he111 cockpit, nothing in VR il2 comes close to it, it's orgasmic

Heavies i understand is not possible and viable right now or in close future and that's fine, maybe as dummy AI with simple FM/DM some day.

 

Regarding BoN i think they missed the great opportunity going with ju88c6 instead of naval variants ju188e2 or ju88a17 with torpedo racks.

They could be used to attack ports and allied ship supplies, completly new gameplay element (torpedos).

With ar234 and me410 i see no need for ju88c6.

 

For allies...well as i said after fighter overdose from BoBp they should opt for flyable iconic b25/26 in BoN or at least give them priority in collector planes department instead of more fighters (yaks and hurry).

Scope of il2 would seem much wider, current planesets reveals it's limitations.

[JG7_X-Man]

On 1/3/2020 at 10:32 AM, Sublime said:

This strategem defeated the LW 

Interestingly and unsurprisingly it was totally unpopular with bomber crews until months showed after a month or two.  Doolittle really came close to being fragged for "freeing the fighters".  He received several death threats.

 

Yes it did! I wouldn't go as far as saying death threats though - the US Armed Forces isn't staffed with people like that. 

[Sublime]

7 hours ago, JG7_X-Man said:

 

Yes it did! I wouldn't go as far as saying death threats though - the US Armed Forces isn't staffed with people like that. 

No seriously - Ill find the book I read that in for you. Anonymous obviously.

[[=PzG=]-Southernbear]

Might not have Heavies but we can all enjoy Tactical formations in the mean time