Did fighter pilots wear crusher caps in battle?

[von_Michelstamm]

I know at least with the allies it was mainly (exclusively?) a bomber crew thing, but among the axis, Erich Hartmann’s looks really well used. Did some pilots actually fly fighters I wearing their covers?

 

Edited December 20, 2019 by von_Michelstamm

[unreasonable]

What is a "crusher cap"?

[bzc3lk]

49 minutes ago, unreasonable said:

What is a "crusher cap"?

Spoiler

https://www.warhats.com/store/p737/Luftwaffe_Officers_Crusher_Cap_-_Fallschirmjäger_.html#/

 

 

Edited December 20, 2019 by bzc3lk

[von_Michelstamm]

Hartmanns is more typically a crusher, flexible Brim and no internal stiffening.

Gallands is a standard officer cap with the wire removed.

Not sure if this is just a photo op, but here he is wearing one in his whip. Definitely looks bent from having phones over it. Seems it would be hard to look around wearing that thing.

 

 

Edited December 20, 2019 by von_Michelstamm

[unreasonable]

Just posed photos. WW2 flying helmets had enclosed headphones, including German ones, I believe.  The bending is just a fashion affectation, the same as their inability to put on a hat straight.  Young men can be very vain. 

[Megalax]

The bending probably comes from them folding their hats to put them in their pockets. I do the same with my beret.

[von_Michelstamm]

On 12/19/2019 at 11:07 PM, unreasonable said:

Just posed photos. WW2 flying helmets had enclosed headphones, including German ones, I believe.  The bending is just a fashion affectation, the same as their inability to put on a hat straight.  Young men can be very vain. 

 

The 'fifty mission cap' and specially designed 'crusher' versions that could be comfortably worn on mission with equipment were certainly a real thing for bomber crews, at least among allies, who often flew for hours before getting close to danger, and it seems the 'look' followed the function. Axis tank commanders wore them in combat too.
My assumption is lone fighter pilots had much stricter rules about helmet usage, looking for data on it.

http://www.anaspides.net/military/crusher_caps.html

 

Edited December 27, 2019 by von_Michelstamm

[unreasonable]

28 minutes ago, von_Michelstamm said:

 

The 'fifty mission cap' and specially designed 'crusher' versions that could be comfortably worn on mission with equipment were certainly a real thing for bomber crews, at least among allies, who often flew for hours before getting close to danger, and it seems the 'look' followed the function. Axis tank commanders wore them in combat too.
My assumption is lone fighter pilots had much stricter rules about helmet usage, looking for data on it.

http://www.anaspides.net/military/crusher_caps.html

 

 

Among the US perhaps - not "the Allies". I very much doubt that RAF squadrons would have permitted such liberties with uniform. (RAAF perhaps, who knows...   ) Any photos of RAF crews in flight wearing peaked hats?  On the ground the NCOs usually wore side hats, the officers usually peaked hats, sometime side hats - what we used to call "c--- caps", you have to look from the top to see why.  Such was the attitude to headgear in those days that as soon as the crew exited the plane after landing, flying helmets would come off and ground headgear on, for NCOs a side hat, for officers usually a peaked hat. 

 

As for Axis tank commanders - perhaps, although usually they are wearing side hats or fatigue caps with a narrow brim which would fit comfortably under a headset.  Tank commanders have to be able to get out of their tank easily and often to do recce and O groups on foot:  having a earphone/microphone headset that is easy to take off and put on makes sense for them in a way it does not for a pilot. 

 

 

[von_Michelstamm]

1 hour ago, unreasonable said:

 

Among the US perhaps - not "the Allies". I very much doubt that RAF squadrons would have permitted such liberties with uniform. (RAAF perhaps, who knows...   ) Any photos of RAF crews in flight wearing peaked hats?  On the ground the NCOs usually wore side hats, the officers usually peaked hats, sometime side hats - what we used to call "c--- caps", you have to look from the top to see why.  Such was the attitude to headgear in those days that as soon as the crew exited the plane after landing, flying helmets would come off and ground headgear on, for NCOs a side hat, for officers usually a peaked hat. 

 

As for Axis tank commanders - perhaps, although usually they are wearing side hats or fatigue caps with a narrow brim which would fit comfortably under a headset.  Tank commanders have to be able to get out of their tank easily and often to do recce and O groups on foot:  having a earphone/microphone headset that is easy to take off and put on makes sense for them in a way it does not for a pilot. 

 

 

Yes, ‘allies’ as in one of them, the US. No clue about the brits or Russians or the Chinese or the Brazilians, unless someone else has info.

Back to the question: crushers existed, were worn by both the Germans and the US. They existed and looked the way they do due to the need to wear headphones over officer caps, and the US for sure wore them in the air, though this might just have only been bombers.

I’ve seen scattered references to fighters wearing them too (Wikipedia, that Battle of Britain flic that galland himself was a consultant on, militaria auctions for ‘named mustang pilot’ crusher caps, etc — nothing really substantial). 
I’m asking if anyone here has any actual information on whether fighter pilots ever wore them in the air instead of helmets.

 

 

Edited December 27, 2019 by von_Michelstamm

[unreasonable]

35 minutes ago, von_Michelstamm said:

Yes, ‘allies’ as in one of them, the US. No clue about the brits or Russians or the Chinese or the Brazilians, unless someone else has info.

Back to the question: crushers existed, were worn by both the Germans and the US. They existed and looked the way they do due to the need to wear headphones over officer caps, and the US for sure wore them in the air, though this might just have only been bombers.

I’ve seen scattered references to fighters wearing them too (Wikipedia, that Battle of Britain flic that galland himself was a consultant on, militaria auctions for ‘named mustang pilot’ crusher caps, etc — nothing really substantial). 
I’m asking if anyone here has any actual information on whether fighter pilots ever wore them in the air instead of helmets.

 

It is the part in bold where I disagree: that might be the case for the US caps specifically made for the air force, but as an assumption about the German forces it is without foundation.  Just a few minutes searching shows several photos of German WW2 officers and SNCOs who are wearing floppy peaked hats, non of whom have anything to do with either tanks or aircraft.  Taking out the wire was just a fashion statement, making the newer peaked hats look like the pre-war version which looked much cooler.

 

 

German aces might have occasionally worn their caps in flight, although I doubt this was at all common, but looking at a picture of Hartmann's floppy cap and saying that it was floppy because he had to wear phones over it is missing the bigger picture.   

 

 

Edited December 27, 2019 by unreasonable

[Sgt_Joch]

 

this is one of those "it depends" question, WW2 pilots like servicemen gravitated towards the functional, even if it was not "official".

 

Flying helmets were functional, they kept your head warm at high altitudes, held up your oxygen mask and often had integrated headphones. Some pilots may have worn caps, but they would have been the exception.

 

Uniforms were different depending on what part of the war. You look at LW pilots in the Battle of Britain, many wore the "official" uniform with riding breeches and shirt and tie. By the time you get to 1944-45, they are all wearing one or two piece flying suits. Many U.S. pilots in the South Pacific only wore shorts and t-shirts because it was too hot and humid.

 

On Bomber crews, it also depends what you are looking at. In the above documentary on the B-29, you see many crew members wearing no cover, crusher caps, ball caps, flying helmets, etc., but the B-29 had a pressurized cockpit so the helmet was less useful.

Edited December 27, 2019 by Sgt_Joch