Back & head armor FW190

[LLv24_Veccu_VR]

Hi

 

It seems that Fw190 rear armor needs to be fixed, all back and head armored 12,7 mm and 19 mm armorplates in Fw190 should protect better from fire behind. Headshots behind are now quite common cause of death for Fw190 pilots and that it seems not to be accurate. Here very nice topic I found from another forum by Jaakariliike. According to British and Russian investigations, Fw190 pilot was very well protected from rear.

 

https://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/150789-fw-190-armor-some-documentation/

 

-veccu-

[E69_geramos109]

Pilot kills are 80% of the kills on the game hehehe. Flying 190 you know if you are hit you are death. 

On the other hand I find the test quite curious regarding the 50cal. The head armor plate is quite thin to stop a 50 cal round that can penetrate abot 25mm Steel plate. 109s were better protected on the rear than 190s

[LLv24_Veccu_VR]

On 12/17/2019 at 6:34 PM, Ruthless_Killer said:

Those numbers are incorrect. Standard Fw-190A has 12mm armored headrest and 8mm armored seat, 5mm shoulder armor plate and 5mm side plates. 

 

That test doesn't mention at what range they shot at the Fw-190 or how many rounds they fired or if they used multiple guns of the same type and fired at convergence. I presume they only used a single gun of each type when doing these tests.

Compare that to 6 or 8 .50cals or 4x20mm cannons firing a good burst at convergence at 200-300m. 50 cal AP rounds penetrate ~25mm at those ranges, so the Fw-190's 12mm armored headrest and 13mm seat/shoulder armor aren't gonna help you much. 

 

Also, I have to say that the guy who made that post you linked came to a....slightly weird conclusion: " This would mean that even with HE-SAPI 20mm rounds, the Fw-190 should have a very low chance of being downed by less than a dozen hits. And an essentially zero percent chance of being shot down by US .50 cals" Apparently he thinks that Fw-190s should be immune to .50 cal bullets lol. ~5000 axis aircraft shot down by P-51s in the ETO/MTO disagree with that statement. ? 

 

Well, then Authors of book FW190 vs La5/7 bublishers Dmitriy Khazanov and Alexander Medved must be wrong... ?

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/5-Fw-190-Eastern-1942-45/dp/1849084734

 

 

And "50 cal AP rounds penetrate ~25mm at those ranges", have to see it to believe it, especially 200 m.

 

 

-Veccu-

Edited December 20, 2019 by LLv24_Veccu

[MiloMorai]

A pdf of the Pilot Manual for the A-8. Armour thickness is near the end.

https://issuu.com/joete6/docs/pilot_manual_-_flugzeug-handbuch_-_

[-=PHX=-SuperEtendard]

52 minutes ago, Ruthless_Killer said:

https://forum.warthunder.com/uploads/monthly_2019_05/1840243012_TBDV3Page13950calM2APRHA.jpg.934856a2780b55b02d96bf8b06880c5a.jpg

 

~0.94in = ~ 24mm at 200m  

yup, also taking that chart you can estimate at which angle the 190 headrest 12mm would deflect a .50 cal



At around 220 yards (200 meters) for the .50 cal AP M2 round fired by the 36 inch barrel AN/M2 .50 cal found in US fighter aircraft to not penetrate reliably a 0.47 inch (12mm) plate it would need to impact it over a 42/43º angle. So the red area is the vulnerable zone within +/- 42º from the headrest armor plate at 200 meters (6 o' clock ofc).

Edited December 20, 2019 by -=PHX=-SuperEtendard

[CUJO_1970]

Wow^^ that is very interesting compared to what we see happening in the sim.

[Turban]

I really think the devs should look into it.

 

I die pretty much only to pilot killed, usually instantly ofte from far away.

 

The FW pilot was well protected from behind, that's a well know fact, yet ingame it's the absolute opposite.  Whether the hitbox is wrong, or the armor, I don't know, but it make no sense.

 

I'd be willing to bet you'll die more of pilot snipe in a FW that in anything else...

 

It's not a single occurrence it's almost every time.

Edited January 22, 2020 by Turban

[PainGod85]

M20 API-T penetrates 21 mm of RHA at 500 meters, and still 11 mm at 1200 meters.

 

M2 AP, 19 and 10.

 

M8 AP-I, 16 and 8.

 

Sources listed at the bottom of the linked page: http://www.inetres.com/gp/military/infantry/mg/50_ammo.html

[LLv24_Veccu_VR]

Yeah, for marketing reasons this is what it is.... happens very very seldom when flying 109. Or it is a bug that is not so high priority for devs atm....

 

-Veccu-

Edited January 30, 2021 by LLv24_Veccu

[357th_KW]

I tested this pretty extensively back in 4.006.  The 190s resistance to PKs from stern attacks is pretty similar to the other fighters in the game.  The oddball in BoX is the 109 which soaks enormous amounts of damage from 6 o’clock.

 

 

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

Well, let me be the outlier here. I almost never get a PK'd from the rear quarter in an Fw. On the other hand I've adjusted my pilot position in all AC all the way to the rear. I wonder if this is putting my pilot at less risk as he is squished up against the plate and low angle shots aren't sneaking around my armor. I do get PK'd on occasion but it's usually on higher offset shots though the bubble.

 

*also: I fly exclusively in MP. Not sure if that has any bearing on quality of the shots. AI can be snipers.

Edited January 30, 2021 by II/JG17_HerrMurf

[Kurfurst]

On 1/30/2021 at 5:29 PM, LLv24_Veccu said:

Yeah, for marketing reasons this is what it is.... happens very very seldom when flying 109. Or it is a bug that is not so high priority for devs atm....

 

-Veccu-

Rounds passing throughout the fuselage and hitting skin and ‘stuff’ (radios, oxygen bottles etc) there will have massively reduced penetration capability compared to clean, direct hits on 90 degree armor plate tough.

[Mac_Messer]

For shooting fw190 I always take AP ammo, whatever plane. Never got so effective killing fw190 with HE. Especially when using 50cal the fw190 is a guaranteed pk or engine fire. The 109 is the other way around, not many pk but one HE shell to the wing puts it out of the fight entirely.