Il-2 Battle of Normandy - Planes Visualized

[Pict]

13 hours ago, Gambit21 said:

which again is the point that seems to rocket over the heads of some at a high mach number.

 

If the material in the way is soft enough, then there's no need to go over when it can pass right through without being as much as noticed  

[Megalax]

9 hours ago, ww2fighter20 said:

 

From the 5 aircraft from the allies for Normandy the Mosquito or the Typhoon are the least famous, both are barely if not at all present in games/movies/military anniversaries/airshows

 

Not many of either survived the War. Of all the 3300 Typhoons built, only one complete example survived, and it's only because the Americans had it in storage.

Some more restored Mossies are popping up on the airshow circuits every year.

[BraveSirRobin]

2 hours ago, [I./JG62]steppa said:

Ok, nevermind. Not exactly my opinion, but eh.

You are quit good at, and engaged in the art of forum warfare. I hope i´m not too impolite, but may i ask you what you did for work? My guess would be that it was something which included a lot of arguing with stupid or undiscerning people. Maybe a cop?

 

Computer programmer

[Beazil]

14 hours ago, Motherbrain said:

 

Alright then. I'm sorry.

Yes!!!

High five Motherbrain!  I haven't read the rest of the thread but you have totally responded appropriately here.  Good on you and Robin for keeping the conversation respectful and informative.  We can disagree with each other from time to time as forum members on subjects we all care about, but you've just modelled some excellent online behaviour and learning.  And you did it gracefully.  Bravo.

[Venturi]

18 hours ago, Motherbrain said:

 

We can't have four engine bombers. We can't have Japanese planes, or Italian planes. Or a lot of things other combat sims have had in the past.

 

Because they have decided to pander to what I think is the REAL unrealistic expectation. That everything is 100% realistic and accurate.

 

I've believed this from day 1. They have shot themselves in the foot with this. Running Il-2 on RoFs engine was a mistake. And limiting yourself to only things that are well documented is a mistake.

 

There needs to be a balance between quality and content.

 

Warthunder is a good example of the other extreme of content over quality.

 

But... it's a moot issue. It is what it is. And I can find a lot to like about it. And there isn't really an alternative.

There is a game for you. It’s called war thunder.

 

Simulators aim to be realistic, it is their raison d’etre (reason to exist).
 

Such projects aim to be as realistic as humanly possible, within the time and money constraints imposed by their business model. 

 

It is only in this way that you attract the most passionate, knowledgeable, and reputable individuals to your project. It is how you build a reputation in the community. It is why such sims are played for years.

 

It is why I say, that the greatest challenge is always to understand your principles and adhere to them. There are a lot of bad opinions out there, usually held by people with little understanding or bad motives.

 

Hopefully, the devs continue to focus on realism and aim for programming greatness. It surely would be easy to shoot for “good enough”, whatever that means. 

[Motherbrain]

1 hour ago, Venturi said:

There is a game for you. It’s called war thunder.

 

It's a free to play MMO with gameplay intentionally designed to be a miserable grind so it can tap into your gambling tendencies and make you pay for premium time and currency so you can grind for and unlock the next "shiny" that you won't be able to enjoy and will in fact cause you even MORE misery as you have to upgrade that vehicle and be abused by other players as you do so, again by design.

 

It has very little single player content, by design of course. Why grind and be killed endlessly over and over by other players when you can just play single player and actually enjoy the game? That of course doesn't make them money, so they intentionally limit the single player content to force you to play MP.

 

No. Warthunder is NOT the game for me. Its miserable by design. And there are better and quicker ways of abusing yourself then by playing it. I hate WT with a passion, and I'm tired of people pointing me to it. Its garbage.

 

No. Il-2 Great Battles is the best of the lot. It has great gameplay. Your free to do whatever you want, however you want to do it.

 

I'm just sad how hard it is for the dev's to make it and add to it. Its tragic in my mind. And I wish it was different. And I can't help but compare it to other things.

Edited December 14, 2019 by Motherbrain

[JG7_X-Man]

On 12/13/2019 at 11:42 AM, Max_von_Wuthenau said:

how could something as graceful as the Spitfire and something as hideous as the Typhoon come from the same people...

 

They didn't: Supermarine Aviation vs Hawker Aircraft Company or was that a lame attempt as a joke?  

[Cybermat47]

41 minutes ago, JG7_X-Man said:

 

They didn't: Supermarine Aviation vs Hawker Aircraft Company or was that a lame attempt as a joke?  

I’m pretty sure that “same people” is referring to the British.

[[I./JG62]steppa]

11 hours ago, BraveSirRobin said:

 

Computer programmer

Well, close enough in guess 

I work in the aircraft structural repair business. We could have a lot of fun together, especially about the HE damage.

This thread isn't  the place for that kind of talk however. 

Wish ya a great day. 

 

Greetings

[Jaegermeister]

The C47/ Dakota / Li2 has been glaringly, obviously missing for a long time now. We need it for any resupply cover mission like Bastogne, Paratrooper operations, supplying airbases, scenery, and more. It was used by every Allied Air Force in every theatre for basically the whole war. (Perhaps not 100% true but go ahead and find an exception anyway...) I would guess it will be made flyable in the future, but as AI, it’s not just nice to have, it’s essential to represent a large number of missions that have not been possible to make because of its absence.

 

I completely fail to see why anyone would not want it in the sim except perhaps selfishly wanting all the devs efforts to go into something they personally want to fly. There are a few planes I am not interested in flying but I don’t have any problems with them being there.

 

 

Edited December 15, 2019 by Jaegermeister

[cardboard_killer]

13 minutes ago, Jaegermeister said:

I completely fail to see why anyone would not want it in the sim except perhaps selfishly wanting all the devs efforts to go into something they personally want to fly.

 

Paying a company money for a product allows me to be selfish.

[II./SG.1-MarkWilhelmsson]

On 12/13/2019 at 9:24 PM, ww2fighter20 said:

 

Ar234 while more famous because it's the first jetbomber, it's mostly overshadowed by the Me262 and almost nobody associates it with Normandy.

For historical accuracy the only Ar234's that where used where recon prototypes which couldn't carry any bombs, it also fits much better as seperate collectorplane for Bodenplatte or could be used for an 1944/1945 eastern front release.

 

 

There was a Luftwaffe bomber unit that flew the Ar234 exclusively as a bomber and took part in several decisive battles, two of which are currently running as scenarios on the most popular MP server in the game right now. Additionally, it was not just a prototype aircraft; it was in serial production and over 200 were built.

Edited December 15, 2019 by III./JG7-MarkWilhelmsson

[6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann]

Anyone wanna Speculate on the foxed Rear-Firing MG151s?

[LukeFF]

10 hours ago, 6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann said:

Anyone wanna Speculate on the foxed Rear-Firing MG151s?

 

Probably a modification.

[PB0_Roll]

On 12/14/2019 at 9:18 PM, Motherbrain said:

 

 

 

No. Warthunder is NOT the game for me. Its miserable by design. And there are better and quicker ways of abusing yourself then by playing it. I hate WT with a passion, and I'm tired of people pointing me to it. Its garbage.

 

No. Il-2 Great Battles is the best of the lot. It has great gameplay. Your free to do whatever you want, however you want to do it.

 

 

IL2GB is quite good at what it does, ie dogfight simulator arena and a bit of ground pounding here and there, but if you miss italian fighters , or pacific area, or escorting a hundred bombers, then 46 still does quite the job, yesterday I few over salomons with 10 buddies, intercepting a 100+ bombers raid with escort, and our 50 interceptor did quite the job, was a lotta fun.

[MasserME262]

to be totally honest, If I buy BoN, which I highly doubt, it will be just because of the Hornisse.

[Monostripezebra]

As a confessed mossie fanboy I am always happy to see one and always still have one crying eye when I see it added in a late war context where its speed mean nothing anymore...

 

But a 410 would somewhat console me, THAT is a beautiful twin aircraft and I feel it is underrepresented in the sims.

Edited December 16, 2019 by Monostripezebra

[Georgio]

What's the issue with four engined planes in the sim, surely it's not insurmountable?

Normandy wouldn't be credible without some B17 & Lancaster action softening up the wall...

[Mac_Messer]

On 12/14/2019 at 3:24 AM, adonys said:

I can bet you right now that actually DC3 will be a high priced collector's plane (see the Ju52)..

I think the Ju52 sales is the reason DC3 is not picked to be flyable.

What is more, making AI only planes flyable through collector plane concept is a dodgy idea. A BoBP owner would have to buy a cockpit for a plane he technically already paid for.

[OrLoK]

54 minutes ago, Mac_Messer said:

I think the Ju52 sales is the reason DC3 is not picked to be flyable.

What is more, making AI only planes flyable through collector plane concept is a dodgy idea. A BoBP owner would have to buy a cockpit for a plane he technically already paid for.

I'd pay for the AI aircraft as an additional collector aircraft.

 

I love my ju52. but I prefer to fly as allies, armed or not!

[Dakpilot]

Love to know where people keep getting the Ju-52 sales figures from

 

Cheers, Dakpilot 

[ww2fighter20]

On 12/14/2019 at 3:28 PM, Megalax said:

Some more restored Mossies are popping up on the airshow circuits every year.

 

Not in europe as far as I know, which is an important customerbase.

 

On 12/15/2019 at 7:09 PM, III./JG7-MarkWilhelmsson said:

 

There was a Luftwaffe bomber unit that flew the Ar234 exclusively as a bomber and took part in several decisive battles, two of which are currently running as scenarios on the most popular MP server in the game right now. Additionally, it was not just a prototype aircraft; it was in serial production and over 200 were built.

Yes which is why I also noted it fitted for an collectorplane for Bodenplatte and not for Normandy.

 

As pointed out by =27=Davesteu only 2 prototype recon variants where active over Normandy no bomber verions which makes it an unhistorical addition for Normandy.

[Elem]

8 hours ago, ww2fighter20 said:

Not in europe as far as I know, which is an important customerbase.

Apart form these two...

https://www.thewoodenwonder.org.uk/

https://www.peoplesmosquito.org.uk/2018/02/03/bringing-de-havilland-mosquito-back-home/

 

[AndytotheD]

On an unrelated note, if the P-51B/C gets the Mustang III treatment with 150 octane fuel it will be faster than the Tempest on the deck. I, for one, am very excited to see that.

[II./SG.1-MarkWilhelmsson]

19 hours ago, ww2fighter20 said:

 

Not in europe as far as I know, which is an important customerbase.

 

Yes which is why I also noted it fitted for an collectorplane for Bodenplatte and not for Normandy.

 

As pointed out by =27=Davesteu only 2 prototype recon variants where active over Normandy no bomber verions which makes it an unhistorical addition for Normandy.

 

I don't think they are adding the 234 to satisfy the Normandy map, I think they are adding it to satisfy the need for it on the Bodenplatte map. Yes it's coming with Normandy, but I think they intend more for it to go with Bodenplatte.

[=RvE=Windmills]

It's all 1 game in the end.

[Algy-Lacey]

On 12/14/2019 at 2:28 PM, Megalax said:

 

Not many of either survived the War. Of all the 3300 Typhoons built, only one complete example survived, and it's only because the Americans had it in storage.

Some more restored Mossies are popping up on the airshow circuits every year.

 

My Stepdad's father, D C R Macdonald, started the war as a Spitfire pilot, flew and fought in the battle of britain and went on to have a distinguished career in the R.A.F.

 

I remember him telling me that after the end of the war the R.A.F were selling aircraft to whoever would by them, you could buy a Mosquito - but who wanted to? No one could afford to run one! I was amazed. Who wouldn't part with (in those days) a small amount of money to have a warbird?! But so many went to the scrapyard...

 

R.I.P 'Nick'

[ShamrockOneFive]

2 hours ago, III./JG7-MarkWilhelmsson said:

 

I don't think they are adding the 234 to satisfy the Normandy map, I think they are adding it to satisfy the need for it on the Bodenplatte map. Yes it's coming with Normandy, but I think they intend more for it to go with Bodenplatte.

 

I think this is the key point.

 

If we fast forward about 2-3 years from now. Normandy will be out, Bodenplatte will have been out for a while, and both will be on sale for say 50% off. A new customer can come in and get more or less a complete West Front experience for about $100. Not bad at all!

[hobotango]

C-47 Dakota would be great as a player plane ( collector ? ). I mean how cool would it be to go out from London (?) and deliver the paratroopers to France, bracing for Flak, and what not and then coming back one piece. 

[Jade_Monkey]

1 hour ago, hobotango said:

C-47 Dakota would be great as a player plane ( collector ? ). I mean how cool would it be to go out from London (?) and deliver the paratroopers to France, bracing for Flak, and what not and then coming back one piece. 

 

Not as cool as you imagine right now.

[BraveSirRobin]

1 hour ago, hobotango said:

C-47 Dakota would be great as a player plane ( collector ? ). I mean how cool would it be to go out from London (?) and deliver the paratroopers to France, bracing for Flak, and what not and then coming back one piece. 

 

It’s probably boring as hell.  It’s basically just flying straight and level and hope you don’t get hit by a random flak shell.  There isn’t really any skill involved.  What’s the cool part?

[US63_SpadLivesMatter]

2 hours ago, BraveSirRobin said:

 

It’s probably boring as hell.  It’s basically just flying straight and level and hope you don’t get hit by a random flak shell.  There isn’t really any skill involved.  What’s the cool part?

 

I guess you could ask all those people we see flying the Ju52.  ?

Edited December 19, 2019 by J28w-Broccoli

[BraveSirRobin]

Just now, J28w-Broccoli said:

 

I guess you could ask all those people I see flying the Ju52.  ?

 

Are they flying straight and level in formation at night over flak guns?  If not, then it’s not relevant.

[Feathered_IV]

Shuttling in fresh supplies and personnel after D-Day.  Loosing sight of your escorts and running the gauntlet of German heavy fighters somewhere out over the sea.  Bad weather.  Night flights.  Searching for the nav beacon, and flying by dead reckoning when there isn’t one.  Not everyone’s bag, but I think I would enjoy all that.  

[BraveSirRobin]

40 minutes ago, Feathered_IV said:

Shuttling in fresh supplies and personnel after D-Day.  Loosing sight of your escorts and running the gauntlet of German heavy fighters somewhere out over the sea.  Bad weather.  Night flights.  Searching for the nav beacon, and flying by dead reckoning when there isn’t one.  Not everyone’s bag, but I think I would enjoy all that.  

 

I’ve flown Ju52 missions on Combat Box.  Dead reckoning nav is easy.  Running the “gauntlet” is not that exciting.  If someone spots you you’re dead.  If not, you survive.  BFD

[Feathered_IV]

It’s okay robin. I was just talking about things I might like.  I wasn’t suggesting it be compulsory.  

[BraveSirRobin]

1 minute ago, Feathered_IV said:

It’s okay robin. I was just talking about things I might like.  I wasn’t suggesting it be compulsory.  

 

Did I say it was compulsory?  Or even hint at it?  I’m just commenting on the “excitement” of flying an aircraft where your survival depends completely on the blind luck of not being seen (pun intended).

[Legioneod]

6 hours ago, Feathered_IV said:

Shuttling in fresh supplies and personnel after D-Day.  Loosing sight of your escorts and running the gauntlet of German heavy fighters somewhere out over the sea.  Bad weather.  Night flights.  Searching for the nav beacon, and flying by dead reckoning when there isn’t one.  Not everyone’s bag, but I think I would enjoy all that.  

 

Never thought of it this way, sounds like fun. Would definitely like to see it added for those who'd enjoy it, even if it' not a big interest of mine.

[Bremspropeller]

8 minutes ago, Legioneod said:

Never thought of it this way, sounds like fun. Would definitely like to see it added for those who'd enjoy it, even if it' not a big interest of mine.

 

Read "Fate is the Hunter" by Ernest K Gann and you will get a different view on transport flying.

Hint: It's a great read if you're even just faintly interested in aviation - a nice christmas-present anyway!

[ZachariasX]

1 hour ago, Bremspropeller said:

 

Read "Fate is the Hunter" by Ernest K Gann and you will get a different view on transport flying.

Hint: It's a great read if you're even just faintly interested in aviation - a nice christmas-present anyway!

I'm reading it now. The "glory days" of transport and PAX flying.