Lots of pilot kills from 50 cals and 20mm hispano

[=TU=flynvrtd]

In multiplayer specifically.

Anytime I am engaged by a late war plane especially the 51 or Tempest,

It is almost 100% predictable that any engagement against these planes will end with a pilot kill from the 50's or 20mm on these planes.

I can be fully evasive, slipping, rolling, using out of plane maneuvering and it seems to make no difference. There seems to be no end to the number of "magic" bullets that will end the pilots life

coming from these guns.

I am not asking for them to be neutered. Just a review please .

Either that or the heads of the LW pilots in the sim are modeled to be 3 times normal size with lead magnets inserted.

It's not just myself. Everyone on the discord channel we use is experiencing this same phenomenon.

 

 Would it be possible to have the Devs review the numbers or these weapons packages?

 

               Thanks.

 

[=TU=flynvrtd]

I figured there'd be no interest in this. 

I fly almost exclusively on combat box. 

Being a fan of the wurger, i have grown used to hi angle deflection shooting. 

I can hit any opposing plane with a shot at hi angle deflection IN THE CANOPY, with bright flaming flashes,  and the enemy just keeps right on fighting. 

When I do get a kill, it's akin to death by a thousand cuts.

 When an allied late war ride, especially the tempest or mustang lines me up, it's almost always a quick pilot kill. Even if i am radically evasive.

 In reviewing my sortie results on the combat box stats page it's plain to see the difference in lethality of these weapons packages.

Couple the 50s and hispanos with the generous flight models of the late war allied rides, and the challenge doesn't involve much skill. 

 

[RedKestrel]

4 minutes ago, flynvrtd said:

I figured there'd be no interest in this. 

I fly almost exclusively on combat box. 

Being a fan of the wurger, i have grown used to hi angle deflection shooting. 

I can hit any opposing plane with a shot at hi angle deflection IN THE CANOPY, with bright flaming flashes,  and the enemy just keeps right on fighting. 

When I do get a kill, it's akin to death by a thousand cuts.

 When an allied late war ride, especially the tempest or mustang lines me up, it's almost always a quick pilot kill. Even if i am radically evasive.

 In reviewing my sortie results on the combat box stats page it's plain to see the difference in lethality of these weapons packages.

Couple the 50s and hispanos with the generous flight models of the late war allied rides, and the challenge doesn't involve much skill. 

 

I get PK'd all the time by Axis planes. Much more often since the updated pilot physiology. K4s are the main culprit, if the 30mm hits anywhere near the cockpit you are dead or (pre the most recent patch) knocked out for a good five seconds.

4x20mm cannons hitting you from a Tempest and 6 .50 cal guns from a mustang are throwing a lot of lead, especially at convergence. There's not much in the way of pilot armor that will consistently stop those rounds and there are an awful lot of them flying through a small space with the guns on the new allied planes. Realistically anybody who gets hit by a .50 cal round is pretty well dead, sooner or later.

[69th_Panp]

PKs are now certain in any plane red or blue since the patch when hit, make no difference what type of ammo really.

Makes it very frustrating, one hit and concussion effect kicks in and you go red and dead.

I get PKed 8 out 10 mission now and find i'm losing the enjoyment of the fight and this flight sim.

As a note I do fly red almost all the time. P51 / tempass / spit

The (quote) magic bullet is not just a blue or red issue, it's an all around sim issue.

Used to get PKed maybe 30% of the time when hit, now it's almost all the time

Not sure if the concussion effect is too high !

Not sure if the damage bubble is to large !

I am sure PKs are rampant since the patch !

 

I'm also sure it ruins the fun of the fight.

Poor visibility and now instant death = enjoyment killer.

 

Add this PK issue to the visibility issues and it is starting to be less and less fun for a lot of us!

 

 

For me it means no fun, so why fly

If I don't fly I don't see why I would buy.

Wont keep spending money on something that just keeps frustrating me every night I fly. 

 

I have bought every module since it's release, but this one may be the last one for me.

 

Sad really as it has so much protentional 

 

just my 2 cents 

[Turban]

I agree 100%.

 

It's predictable to the point where the best thing to do is bail out as soon as you have someone behind you...

 

I fly the FW , which supposedly had great pilot protection yet die instantly even from far away.

 

It'd be great if the devs could investigate...

[Birdman]

I fly mostly allies and I have a similar impression, I feel like I get pk'd all the time when flying P47, P51 or tempest. The P38 seem to be better (marginally).

[Turban]

It's much worst on the german side, FW at least. All my death are on the first second, but pilot's death, if not first second is pilot knocked unconscious till it crashes...

 

It's all visible in pilot's sorties.

 

And bear in mind it's 12.7 mm against explosive 20/30 mm. It's really obvious when looking at stats that something is systematically off.

[69th_Mobile_BBQ]

On 12/16/2019 at 11:27 AM, flynvrtd said:

I figured there'd be no interest in this. 

I fly almost exclusively on combat box. 

Being a fan of the wurger, i have grown used to hi angle deflection shooting. 

I can hit any opposing plane with a shot at hi angle deflection IN THE CANOPY, with bright flaming flashes,  and the enemy just keeps right on fighting. 

When I do get a kill, it's akin to death by a thousand cuts.

 When an allied late war ride, especially the tempest or mustang lines me up, it's almost always a quick pilot kill. Even if i am radically evasive.

 In reviewing my sortie results on the combat box stats page it's plain to see the difference in lethality of these weapons packages.

Couple the 50s and hispanos with the generous flight models of the late war allied rides, and the challenge doesn't involve much skill. 

 

 

That's funny, myself and friends on comms notice that there's nearly no way to not get 1-shotted by Axis planes.  Our resident "guy who mostly rides along as a gunner" is totally sick of it. He gets 1-shotted more than any of us and most of the time doesn't even see the guy who got him.  

 

Death by a thousand cuts is often times the method those of us using .50's have to use as well. 

I've made my personal goal based on how many assists I can get instead of kills.  If they go down, they go down.  If not, somebody else can have them. 

The P-51 is worse to build lost energy in than any 190 and it being fast enough to outrun the 109 G 14 or K is a lie - especially if you've taken another turn to shoot the guy you just attacked again. 

Hit and run and forget about it until you look at end of sortie results.  Otherwise, expect to be dogmeat if you're only a 8/10 skill Allied pilot.   

 

Funny how the grass is always greener on the other side.  

[Birdman]

That would be interesting to see the behind the scene on these mechanics.

 

I reviewed 2 of my last records:

Landed a burst in a FW cockpit, pilot was fine. Landed a burst in a Stuka cockpit and the whole crew died.

 

I'm assuming the people using the gyro sights get intense concentration of fire on the targets and 6 to 8 .50cals that's a lot of bullets. And if you catch the cockpit it's gonna hurt.

 

[Heckpupper]

Just don't get hit, hope this helps.

[RedKestrel]

57 minutes ago, Mobile_BBQ said:

 

That's funny, myself and friends on comms notice that there's nearly no way to not get 1-shotted by Axis planes.  Our resident "guy who mostly rides along as a gunner" is totally sick of it. He gets 1-shotted more than any of us and most of the time doesn't even see the guy who got him.  

 

Death by a thousand cuts is often times the method those of us using .50's have to use as well. 

I've made my personal goal based on how many assists I can get instead of kills.  If they go down, they go down.  If not, somebody else can have them. 

The P-51 is worse to build lost energy in than any 190 and it being fast enough to outrun the 109 G 14 or K is a lie - especially if you've taken another turn to shoot the guy you just attacked again. 

Hit and run and forget about it until you look at end of sortie results.  Otherwise, expect to be dogmeat if you're only a 8/10 skill Allied pilot.   

 

Funny how the grass is always greener on the other side.  

I got 1 shotted by an axis plane last night in a P-47. Happens at least once per session - I see some tracer fly by, next thing I know I'm in external view. And its not always cannon fire.

[Turban]

3 hours ago, Mobile_BBQ said:

 

That's funny, myself and friends on comms notice that there's nearly no way to not get 1-shotted by Axis planes.  Our resident "guy who mostly rides along as a gunner" is totally sick of it. He gets 1-shotted more than any of us and most of the time doesn't even see the guy who got him.  

 

Death by a thousand cuts is often times the method those of us using .50's have to use as well. 

I've made my personal goal based on how many assists I can get instead of kills.  If they go down, they go down.  If not, somebody else can have them. 

The P-51 is worse to build lost energy in than any 190 and it being fast enough to outrun the 109 G 14 or K is a lie - especially if you've taken another turn to shoot the guy you just attacked again. 

Hit and run and forget about it until you look at end of sortie results.  Otherwise, expect to be dogmeat if you're only a 8/10 skill Allied pilot.   

 

Funny how the grass is always greener on the other side.  

 

Gunner dying on first shot is one thing... but allies plane are extremely resilient and so are their pilots. Look at big numbers and you'll see. Most people agree on that
 

I had a look at your sorties and it's far, very far from being as bad as you make it sound like.

 

I'm not even going to talk about the P51 and it's energy...

 

You often see 2/3 germans having to team up for 1 P51... and you'll see p51 smoking , hurt... and still flying like nothing's wrong...

I've seen some of your sorties, where you get hit, keep doing ground attack and die only after several minutes and after being hit by several different enemies....

 

I look at numbers and hours worth of sorties and that tells a pretty clear story...

[RedKestrel]

28 minutes ago, Turban said:

 

.. but allies plane are extremely resilient and so are their pilots. 
 

 

*laughs in P-47*
 

[69th_Mobile_BBQ]

Notice I don't fly the 38 or 47 much.  The 51 is tough - tougher than the 47 - I'll give it that.   The 38, while it makes sense that it has the least rearward pilot protection, also has next to zero structural strength once the tail has been hit and folds easier than a laundered bed sheet.  Whether that's actually historical or not, I can't say.  

 

As far as MY stats go, I guess I'm at least an 8.1 out of 10 pilot.  

 

It still doesn't negate the fact that night after night I hear players much better than I on comms calling out that they've been repeatedly PK'd to a level of frustration.  

 

Most of the time I'm doing ground attack and keep pressing on is because I've been hit and know that I might as well do the most I can before I'm inevitably taken out.  I guess I have a knack for flying unpredictably enough to keep the opponent(s) out of position long enough to make another attack pass or two.  

 

Perhaps you should look at the Fighting 69th's stats. They are the real mud movers in my prime time zone.  I doubt you'll see as many RTBs after a ground attack than my sorties.  LuckyHawk is their gunner.  For some reason, the stats register his being hit as "AI gunner" though.  Most of his gunner sorties are with RedHawk.