The case for a new aircraft for Flying Circus Vol.2?

[Avimimus]

Hello,

 

This post is inspired by discussions about RoF recently where it was clear that a lot of people weren't noticing the significant improvements in Flying Circus...the significant improvements to the damage model (pilots being hit etc.),  Artificial Intelligence (better able to manage altitude), flight controls, and terrain... they simply weren't obvious enough. In comparison Rise of Flight has more content and a campaign.

 

So it occurred to me that one way to make Flying Circus obviously new would be to include a single aircraft not in Rise of Flight... of course, the extra 3d modelling and flight model work would cost more effort... which might increase the time between releases slightly or require a price increase...

 

Edited November 28, 2019 by Avimimus

[Flashy]

Yes, absolutely! Something content-wise (not just technology-wise) to differentiate FC from RoF would be good. Even if its AI only 2 seaters (*cough* Be2 *cough*) to help fill the gaps in the planeset. My personal period of interest is early war, but its desperately under-represented in RoF. Partly I think because people prefer the later, faster stuff, but ALSO because there are too many gaps in the planeset (especially 2-seaters) to make good scenarios. That and the Dh2 is pretty much useless against everything..

[Avimimus]

On 11/28/2019 at 11:00 AM, Flashy said:

Yes, absolutely! Something content-wise (not just technology-wise) to differentiate FC from RoF would be good. Even if its AI only 2 seaters (*cough* Be2 *cough*) to help fill the gaps in the planeset. My personal period of interest is early war, but its desperately under-represented in RoF. Partly I think because people prefer the later, faster stuff, but ALSO because there are too many gaps in the planeset (especially 2-seaters) to make good scenarios. That and the Dh2 is pretty much useless against everything..

 

Yeah, the lack of earlier/slower 2-seaters is particularly glaring... even in the late war having a few slower two-seaters (even slower engine variants) would go a long way to giving fighter pilots something they could catch (and catching 2-seaters was the major motivation for having single seat pursuit aircraft)!

 

The fact that the earliest German two-seater is the LFG Roland C.II is a bit of a challenge for some existing aircraft... (F.E2b, DH2, S-16)... a faster D.H.2 and an LVG C.II (or Albatros C.I) would go a long way to remedy this. The D.H.2 could also do with field mods.

 

From the German perspective: The F.E.2b is almost slow enough for the E.III and can certainly be caught by the D.II. A B.E.2c, Caudron G.IV (or G.III), a French pusher, or even the rather historically significant Morane-Saulnier-L would improve the situation.

 

The mid-late war is also hard on German aircraft: Few of the slower two-seaters from that period are modelled. When they are modelled - they are the faster up-engined versions. We even have one of the fast Sopwith Camels in the game... when the reality is that a lot of the production run has less powerful engines. It isn't ahistorical to have Entente aircraft gain an edge in speed, but it is also historically true that not all Entente aircraft did have that much of an edge...

 

1915-1917 German Two Seaters
165 kph - LFG Roland C.II
150 kph - Airco D.H.2 (many sources - probably earlier model with less endurance?)

150 kph - Sikorsky S-16 120hp
150 kph - Rumpler C.I

145 kph - Pfalz E.III / A.II (German built Morane-Saulnier "L" )
145 kph - Rumpler B.I

145 kph - F.E.2d
140 kph - Aviatik C.I/C.Ia
140 kph - AGO C.I
140 kph - Albatros C.III

135 kph - Pfalz A.I (German built Morane-Saulnier "L" )
130 kph - LVG C.II
130 kph - Albatros C.I

130 kph - F.E.2b
130 kph - Airco D.H.2 (over-wing tank?)
120 kph - Albatros B.II

120 kph - Sikorsky S-16 80hp

115 kph - Lohner L

112 kph - Friedrichshafen FF.33E 
100 kph - Aviatik B.II

 

1915-1917 Entente Two Seaters

165 km/h - Albatros D.II (early)

160 km/h - Albatros W.IV

165 km/h - B.E.12

160 km/h - Sopwith 1 1/2 "Strutter" (Late)

160 km/h - Fokker E.IV  

162 km/h - Sopwith Baby

160 km/h - Fokker D.III

160 km/h - Dorand AR.2

157 km/h - Nieuport 12

155 km/h - Morane-Saulnier P

153 km/h - A.W.F.K.8

150 km/h - Fokker D.II

148 km/h - Sopwith Baby

150 km/h - FBA Type 'H'

150 km/h - F.E.2d

150 km/h - Caudron G.6

145 km/h - Pfalz E.III (German built Morane L)

145 km/h - Halberstadt D.II

142 km/h - Short Admiralty Type 184

140 km/h - Nieuport 10 (late)

140 km/h - Farman F.40

135 km/h - Caudron R.4

135 km/h - Bréguet Bre.5

135 km/h - Paul-Schmitt PS-7

132 km/h - Caudron G.4 (up-engined)

130 km/h - Salmson-Moineau S.M.1

130 km/h - Sopwith 1 1/2 "Strutter" (Early)

130 km/h - F.E.2b

130 km/h - B.E.2e

130 km/h - Fokker E.III

125 km/h - Nieuport 10

125 km/h - Caudron G.4

125 km/h - Morane-Saulnier "L" (up-engined)

122 km/h - Maurice-Farman MF.11

120 km/h - Voisin V/LAS & Voisin VIII/LAP/LBP & Voisin III (late)
115 km/h - Morane-Saulnier "L"

115 km/h - B.E.2c

109 km/h - Blériot XI

105 km/h - Voisin III (early)

105 km/h - Caudron G.III

 

Anyway, as much fun as it is to nerd-out about this - it probably won't be relevant until Vol.3 at the earliest!

Edited December 2, 2019 by Avimimus

[Avimimus]

For the Entente there are many options (i.e. Many targets for the Central Powers):

 

Caudron G.4 is very popular, has many variants (including fighter variants), and would make a good choice.

 

The B.E.2c is a very widespread English aircraft (however, the 'e' is still a bit too 'fast' for the E.III).

 

The Voisin pusher aircraft were particularly widespread - and have interesting armoured & cannon armed variants for ground attack (The Voisin V is probably the best compromise between being early and varied).

 

Morane-Saulnier "L" would provide a slower target for ...being used as for recon, bomber, and fighter roles by both sides (having been license built by Pfalz). It was also the first improvised fighter aircraft and first aircraft to down a Zeppelin!

 

P.S. Caudron G.3 is also interesting (it was the first aircraft to act as a ship-launched spotter for the 'big guns' during a naval engagement) but wouldn't be as popular!

 

 

For the Central Powers there are less options (i.e. the earliest armed targets are a bit fast for the early war Entente):

 

The introduction of the early D.H.2 and the F.E.2d would add speed to both aircraft. However, they would still need a slower target than the LFG Roland C.II (currently the slowest German two-seater in game).

 

The two slowest armed two seaters are the Albatross C.I and LVG C.II (The Aviatik C.I, Albatross C.II and the Rumpler C.I are both surprisingly fast). One could make an argument for the LVG C.II being desirable as it was produced in similar numbers to the others and carried a heavier armament (including a fixed forward firing gun) and was the first aircraft to bomb London.

 

The late D.H.2 & F.E.2b variants we already have modelled would still struggle to catch any of the armed two seaters - so to ensure they have a reliable target an unarmed 'B' two-seater would still be desired. I would probably compromise by introducing an LVG C.II as it could be caught if the D.H.2 or F.E.2b has a slight height advantage.

 

Anyway, this is largely beside the point - as any Collector's plane is unlikely to solve this problem (it would probably be SSW D.IV or a Sopwith Snipe). But I do think that having a bit of two-seater vs. two-seater combat from the 1915-1916 era would provide interesting gameplay (especially in multiplayer). It would certainly be different to be engaging a Caudron G.4 fighter using a German Pfalz E.III (i.e. a Morane-Saulnier L)...

Edited December 5, 2019 by Avimimus