BON P-47D Razorback

[Legioneod]

11 hours ago, Bremspropeller said:

Which versions could a D-22 be de-tuned into?

Minding cockpit-arrangements, etc?

 

Props / wingmounts could be mods anyway.

 

I'll check but not many without changes in the cockpit iirc. I have some documents that show all the differences between the P-47 block cockpits, I'll make some pics and post them here. The Prop and Water injection system would be the main thing that would change, though most P-47s at this time had the curtis paddleblades retrofitted iirc. (D-22 had the Hamilton)

 

EDIT: So from what I can tell the farthest you could go back without changing anything but the prop would be the D-21. The D-11 through D-20 have an automatic water injection system that would require a new throttle and system.

 

The D-15 through D-23 all have the same instrument panel as the D-22. So all you'd have to do if you wanted to go back to one of these blocks is change the water injection to automatic and change the prop to a Curtis Electric.

Edited November 30, 2019 by Legioneod

[357th_KW]

On 11/28/2019 at 12:49 PM, Sublime said:

anyone have a table or breakdown of relative amounts of kills in ETO

e.g

Spitfires

P47s

P51s

Typhoons

Mossies

Tempests

P38s

and so on?

Curious who got the most kills. I have a suspicion the P47s got more because the time frame they were engaged (than p51s)

It's actually quite hard to find good numbers on any of this.  There are quite a few sources with some information about some units at certain times.  But piecing together the whole picture is difficult.  One major thing to be aware of is that it would be impossible to validate every claim on an individual basis, and any numbers you see are claims for destroyed aircraft.  Sometimes a claim was made in good faith, but the aircraft made it home safely, while other times a claim was only put in for a probable or a damaged aircraft (or possibly nothing at all) when aircraft were in fact destroyed.

 

The usual numbers (you can find these in a few of the Osprey sources, spread out in AHT, etc) quoted for USAAF totals in the ETO and MTO are:

P-51: 4950

P-47: 3082

P-38: 1771

P-40: 481

Spitfire: 256

A-36: 84

P-39: 14

 

I've been working on trying to put together some ETO specific totals, including both the USAAF and RAF, for my own research, drawing from works by John Foreman, Roger Freeman, Kent Miller and Donald Caldwell.  I still haven't found a good source for information on 9th air force claims and losses, but I have some numbers for them.  The period I've been focusing on is 1944, pre D-Day.  My numbers for March through May of 1944 show:

P-51: 970

P-47: 357

P-38: 73

Spitfire: 47

Mosquito: 46

Typhoon: 16

 

These are just counting day time engagements - there was quite a bit of night time activity going on as well of course.  I'm confident that the 8th AF and RAF totals for this period are complete (or at least as complete as can be given the historical material available).  The 9th AF numbers are not, but I don't think they would add more then 50 or so to the P-51 totals and less than that for the P-47.  RAF Mustangs are counted in with the P-51 total, but only account for around 25-30 claims during this period.  The Mosquito and Typhoon claims are largely for various bombers, night fighters, transports and utility aircraft caught during sweeps over occupied france (or some action over the Atlantic against Luftwaffe anti shipping efforts for the Mossie).  The 8th Air Force daylight bombing campaign was far and away the main focus of air to air combat at this point in the war in Western Europe, and the majority of 9th AF claims appear to have been from missions where they were operating as escorts with the 8th.

 

Things change dramatically after D-Day as the Luftwaffe switched its focus from stopping the 8th AF, to stopping the Normandy invasion.  As a result you see a more balanced spread of claims between the RAF, 9th AF and 8th AF, all of which were heavily involved in supporting the invasion.

 

[Sublime]

7 hours ago, kracerx said:

It's actually quite hard to find good numbers on any of this.  There are quite a few sources with some information about some units at certain times.  But piecing together the whole picture is difficult.  One major thing to be aware of is that it would be impossible to validate every claim on an individual basis, and any numbers you see are claims for destroyed aircraft.  Sometimes a claim was made in good faith, but the aircraft made it home safely, while other times a claim was only put in for a probable or a damaged aircraft (or possibly nothing at all) when aircraft were in fact destroyed.

 

The usual numbers (you can find these in a few of the Osprey sources, spread out in AHT, etc) quoted for USAAF totals in the ETO and MTO are:

P-51: 4950

P-47: 3082

P-38: 1771

P-40: 481

Spitfire: 256

A-36: 84

P-39: 14

 

I've been working on trying to put together some ETO specific totals, including both the USAAF and RAF, for my own research, drawing from works by John Foreman, Roger Freeman, Kent Miller and Donald Caldwell.  I still haven't found a good source for information on 9th air force claims and losses, but I have some numbers for them.  The period I've been focusing on is 1944, pre D-Day.  My numbers for March through May of 1944 show:

P-51: 970

P-47: 357

P-38: 73

Spitfire: 47

Mosquito: 46

Typhoon: 16

 

These are just counting day time engagements - there was quite a bit of night time activity going on as well of course.  I'm confident that the 8th AF and RAF totals for this period are complete (or at least as complete as can be given the historical material available).  The 9th AF numbers are not, but I don't think they would add more then 50 or so to the P-51 totals and less than that for the P-47.  RAF Mustangs are counted in with the P-51 total, but only account for around 25-30 claims during this period.  The Mosquito and Typhoon claims are largely for various bombers, night fighters, transports and utility aircraft caught during sweeps over occupied france (or some action over the Atlantic against Luftwaffe anti shipping efforts for the Mossie).  The 8th Air Force daylight bombing campaign was far and away the main focus of air to air combat at this point in the war in Western Europe, and the majority of 9th AF claims appear to have been from missions where they were operating as escorts with the 8th.

 

Things change dramatically after D-Day as the Luftwaffe switched its focus from stopping the 8th AF, to stopping the Normandy invasion.  As a result you see a more balanced spread of claims between the RAF, 9th AF and 8th AF, all of which were heavily involved in supporting the invasion.

 

Bravo on your hard work. Yes I knew thered be problems with how airforces counted kills- multiple same claims - and of course bomber gunners overreporting..

[PikAss]

hey devs make at least a better Damage model for the P47 Razorback than on the P47D28.

[SOLIDKREATE]

39 minutes ago, [3./J88]PikAss said:

hey devs make at least a better Damage model for the P47 Razorback than on the P47D28.

 

 How about not coming in here an s----ing all over them. What is your solution? Do you even code? Can you model in Maya? Do you have any game production experience at all? Did you design the P-47D?

 

Then sit down please, in fact go sit at the kids table.

[MercCrom175]

It’s a valid concern, damage model and flight model need some work on our Jug.  Hope time is devoted to it

[PikAss]

51 minutes ago, SOLIDKREATE said:

How about not coming in here an s----ing all over them. What is your solution? Do you even code? Can you model in Maya? Do you have any game production experience at all? Did you design the P-47D?

 

Then sit down please, in fact go sit at the kids table.

 

You don't have to know how to cook to tell if something tastes bad. So your "Do YoU eVeN cOdE? cAn YoU mOdEl iN Maya …" crap doesn't work on me.

[SOLIDKREATE]

2 hours ago, [3./J88]PikAss said:

 

You don't have to know how to cook to tell if something tastes bad. So your "Do YoU eVeN cOdE? cAn YoU mOdEl iN Maya …" crap doesn't work on me.

 

Yeah but I'm still not seeing your solution. I'm only seeing a vain attempt to try and form word vomit into an insult. Are you a ballistics expert? Are you a Stress Engineer? FEA Engineer, any type of engineer? I'm an Engineer and even I could not tell these guys how to model damage correctly. Just because you keep getting owned by 109's doesn't mean you have to come in here and be a douche.

 

Stay at the kids table young lady.

2 hours ago, MercCrom175 said:

It’s a valid concern, damage model and flight model need some work on our Jug.  Hope time is devoted to it

 

 

 Be more like this guy ^^^

[Legioneod]

6 minutes ago, SOLIDKREATE said:

 

Yeah but I'm still not seeing your solution. I'm only seeing a vain attempt to try and form word vomit into an insult. Are you a ballistics expert? Are you a Stress Engineer? FEA Engineer, any type of engineer? I'm an Engineer and even I could not tell these guys how to model damage correctly. Just because you keep getting owned by 109's doesn't mean you have to come in here and be a douche.

 

Stay at the kids table young lady.

 

 

 Be more like this guy ^^^

 

Knock it off, no need to start an argument here. The P-47 DM needs work, end of story. His post probably could have been worded better but it's not a big deal.

Edited December 2, 2019 by Legioneod

[SOLIDKREATE]

7 hours ago, Legioneod said:

 

Knock it off, no need to start an argument here. The P-47 DM needs work, end of story. His post probably could have been worded better but it's not a big deal.

 

And you piped up without a solution, just like he did. "End of Story", I'd like to read that "end" from your perspective. What coding solutions do you have? How much time and money are you willing to donate to your "End of Story". And knock what off? Just taking out the trash boss. Nothing about his comment belonged here. I will always call out all 'Non-Hackers' (weak people) and/or 'Ingrates'.

[Legioneod]

2 hours ago, SOLIDKREATE said:

 

And you piped up without a solution, just like he did. "End of Story", I'd like to read that "end" from your perspective. What coding solutions do you have? How much time and money are you willing to donate to your "End of Story". And knock what off? Just taking out the trash boss. Nothing about his comment belonged here. I will always call out all 'Non-Hackers' (weak people) and/or 'Ingrates'.

Not gonna sit here and argue with you. If you really wanna talk about the damage model there are plenty of other threads discussing it and offering suggestions on how to make it better, use the search bar and you'll find your answers.

 

If you'd like to talk about the Razorback or compare different P-47 blocks and discuss them then feel free to post here, but if not then I think you should move on from this thread. No sense in getting it locked over silly arguments.

[76IAP-Black]

Where is my Popcorn ? 

[konate]

Here's some interesting info on m.p.:

 

here

 

http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/150grade/150-grade-fuel.html

Edited December 3, 2019 by konate

[Legioneod]

58 minutes ago, konate said:

Here's some interesting info on m.p.:

 

here

 

 

Here's a  chart of a Curtis Prop P-47 with 70" WEP.

 

EDIT: Didn't realize I already posted this.

Edited December 3, 2019 by Legioneod

[Sublime]

doesnt matter.  your pushing it in the direction it needs to go away from where it was going