AI sees and aims through clouds

[Letka_13/Arrow_]

I've been recently flying Il-2 campaign and was trying to hide in clouds from BF-109s, I thought I was safe but I was suddenly hit, while I was flying in complete overcast changing direction and using instruments. So I decided to set-up a mission flying against AI in complete overcast, I left the aircraft stable and the AI was able to maneuver in the clouds with zero visibility and shoot me down without problems. For me as this is a major AI single player problem, I thought that BoX/RoF AI could loose me in the clouds, but it seems it is not the case. AI can see you from any distance, maneuver and hit you even when maneuvering in clouds without problem. Devs, please have a look at it. The picture below shows AI shooting at me and hitting me in zero visibility. I am also attaching a track and mission. 

AI_clouds.zip AI_clouds_mission.zip

Edited November 26, 2019 by Rudolph
added track

[Letka_13/Arrow_]

I've been digging in the topic, so it seems that AI should not be able to see through clouds. According to Jason himself in this post:

But that does not seem to be the case in the current version of the sim. AI is able to see perfectly in clouds (maybe it has something to do with new clouds rendering or something). I'll try to test it further.

[LLv34_Flanker]

S!

 

 AI tries to shoot thru houses, forests and clouds. If you get inside the AI "detection and engagement" bubble it will track you flawlessly after that. And at higher settings it can adjust to any speed/direction/altitude change in a split second. AI is one of the biggest concerns in this game, eats way too much resources and is at the same time overly stupid and overly accurate.

[Letka_13/Arrow_]

14 minutes ago, LLv34_Flanker said:

S!

 

 AI tries to shoot thru houses, forests and clouds. If you get inside the AI "detection and engagement" bubble it will track you flawlessly after that. And at higher settings it can adjust to any speed/direction/altitude change in a split second. AI is one of the biggest concerns in this game, eats way too much resources and is at the same time overly stupid and overly accurate.

 

Thanks for the heads up Flanker, I agree - I just thought that such basic feature as AI not being able to see through clouds has been solved long time ago (as Indicated by Jason's response). There must be something really odd, if AI in zero visibility is able to perform 180 turn, fall behind 2 kilometers, track a target and shoot it down. For me this is something as basic as the AI being able to take-off and land.  Maybe the topic should be moved into BUGs section?

Edited November 27, 2019 by Rudolph

[RedKestrel]

1 hour ago, Rudolph said:

 

Thanks for the heads up Flanker, I agree - I just thought that such basic feature as AI not being able to see through clouds has been solved long time ago (as Indicated by Jason's response). There must be something really odd, if AI in zero visibility is able to perform 180 turn, fall behind 2 kilometers, track a target and shoot it down. For me this is something as basic as the AI being able to take-off and land.  Maybe the topic should be moved into BUGs section?

When I flew more single player I regularly lost AI in the clouds, but sometimes with the way the clouds render it can appear to you that you are entirely within the clouds, while to outside observers you may not be. But I never got shot through complete clouds by AI as you are describing.

However I haven't flown with the most recent patch, it could be  that the work on the cloud rendering made the clouds 'thinner' to' the AI so now they can see into them much farther, or simply through them.
 

[Heckpupper]

It's not just AI that shoots through clouds. I do, and so do many other players.

If you're zoomed in on the enemy you can easily see/track them through clouds.

[Bert_Foster]

Clouds don't make you invisible IRL. Close formation in all but the most dense clouds is possible and a regular part of Fighter flying. TACFORM in 1 nm spread is possible in some cloud.

 

[Letka_13/Arrow_]

I understand that to some extent you can see through clouds and track a target which has flown into a cloud with some probability, but AI should not be able to navigate in the middle of an overcast layer with zero visibility, intercept - track and shoot you down. In the screen I provided in my first post there is 109 on my six shooting from 300 meters at me (do you see it?). Such zero visibility intercept would be difficult even with radar. In the track I provided AI goes two kilometers behind, perfectly navigates on you and shoots you down from 300 meters in zero visibility I do not think this should be possible. The current AI can find you in the middle of an overcast layer, so it is impossible to hide from them using clouds. It probably needs to be tweaked, but as I see the work is ongoing so maybe it will be improved.

[354thFG_Leifr]

25 minutes ago, Rudolph said:

The current AI can find you in the middle of an overcast layer, so it is impossible to hide from them using clouds. It probably needs to be tweaked, but as I see the work is ongoing so maybe it will be improved.

 

Yup.

Stick QMB and overcast weather on, the AI will always find you.

[MasserME262]

On 11/27/2019 at 8:59 AM, LLv34_Flanker said:

overly stupid and overly accurate

5 words summarize thousands of words and dozens of posts on the forum.

You have spoken just true.

On 11/28/2019 at 12:27 AM, Bert_Foster said:

Clouds don't make you invisible IRL. Close formation in all but the most dense clouds is possible and a regular part of Fighter flying. TACFORM in 1 nm spread is possible in some cloud.

 

yeah, but this is not RL, and here, you cant see a thing when flying between clouds.

[Patricks]

Old topic but getting back into IL-2 it seems that even the latest updates have not addressed this. Had a great PWCG Normandy mission, thick cloud layer from ~7-9k, sunny above and heavy overcast below. Nice ingress above the clouds and dropped through them at my 6k Patrol point/altitude. Saw no contacts at all, came back up through the cloud layer and got shot to hell in 0 visibility, could not even see my flight. Flipped Icons on for a second and there were 4 109's attacking me, and even with big red signs over them I could not see the planes at all until about .1 away (and forget about trying to fight back) which of course means they should not be able to see me at all. Sad that to keep some sort of realism we can only fly SP with relatively clear skies?

Edited December 2, 2022 by Patricks

[Deicide]

This thread. I had the same thing happen to me as the person above. I was in my A-20 over Kuban and had 109 shooting me while in the clouds and following me like the clouds didn't exist

[Aurosa]

Still not addressed in 2025. AI navigates and shoots through clouds as if they weren't there. I have full clouds on for better visual immersion, but if their only purspose of existence is to put me on disadvantage, I might as well turn them off.

 

/Edit. I see they can't even be disabled. Hopefully low clouds will help against cheating AI.

Edited March 10 by Aurosa

[Patricks]

9 hours ago, Aurosa said:

Still not addressed in 2025. AI navigates and shoots through clouds as if they weren't there. I have full clouds on for better visual immersion, but if their only purspose of existence is to put me on disadvantage, I might as well turn them off.

 

/Edit. I see they can't even be disabled. Hopefully low clouds will help against cheating AI.

 

In Single player the only way you can "even" the odds are perfectly clear skies, who wants that all the time?

[LukeFF]

Guys, unfortunately the AI is pretty much at its limits for what is possible in GB. We are hopeful this sort of issue will be resolved in Korea.