So... Me-410 variants? I'm curious.

[MiloMorai]

P-51s had white or yellow single stripe added to each wing, each sab side and rudder/fin to help ID the a/c as they were often mistaken for 109s. P-47s had a similar problem > radial engine = Fw190.

 

American Mosquitoes got a red fin/rudder to help ID as a Mossie, not a 410.

Edited December 4, 2019 by MiloMorai

[-=PHX=-SuperEtendard]

Looks like this is another 6 x 20mm configuration

 

[Asgar]

 

5 hours ago, PatrickAWlson said:

 

Provided you actually got the opportunity to point it at an enemy  

people said the same about the Bf 110 yet i never had too many issues to get my guns on target  people tend to underestimate the German twin engines and that is what's getting them killed

[Blitzen]

No matter which model they finally decide on this gunner's position is going to be interesting for developers  to model and probably require a learning curve for those who actully 'man" that position & not just have AI deal with it...

[Asgar]

9 minutes ago, Blitzen said:

No matter which model they finally decide on this gunner's position is going to be interesting for developers  to model and probably require a learning curve for those who actully 'man" that position & not just have AI deal with it...

well, theoretically, you should have a revi and just point that at the enemy :D

[Avimimus]

Here is an update to my original question:

 

Likely:
- Three types of gunsights (Loft, Revi, and Telescopic+Revi)
- Various bomb options (7xSC50/AB23, 2xSC250, 2xSD500, 1xSD1000, 1xSB1000 etc.)
- An additional 2x20mm MG-151 replacing the bomb load
- An additional 1x50mm BK-5 replacing the bomb load
- 4xUnderwing WGr.21 rockets

 

Unlikely:
- Two conversions to use flak 43 (16 rounds only - so four seconds of fire)
- Single seat conversions (saving 380 kg and raising speed from 388mph to 400 mph)
- A1/U2 Recon camera configuration (reducing forward armament to 2x20mm cannon)
- Underwing fuselage external bomb racks for four additional SC50 (early A1 production only)

 

Very unlikely:
- An additional 2xMk-103 30mmm cannon (only V18 and maybe some B-6)
- An additional 4x20mm field mod fo six guns total (three configurations are known - but all were made to B variants - although I bet they would have functioned/looked identically for the A)
 

 

For those who are curious about what the single seater looked like (From Pęczkowski and Wolowski:

[Asgar]

3 hours ago, Avimimus said:

- An additional 4x20mm field mod fo six guns total (three configurations are known - but all were made to B variants - although I bet they would have functioned/looked identically for the A)

I mean, if they make the P-51B/C as one plane in the game they can do the Me 410 A/B, the only difference is the 13mm MGs replacing the 7.92mm MGs... I hope they go that route and give us ALL the mods for A and B instead of maybe bringing out another 410 in 3-4 years ?

[Avimimus]

20 minutes ago, Asgar said:

I mean, if they make the P-51B/C as one plane in the game they can do the Me 410 A/B, the only difference is the 13mm MGs replacing the 7.92mm MGs... I hope they go that route and give us ALL the mods for A and B instead of maybe bringing out another 410 in 3-4 years ?

 

Is that the only difference? There were certainly engine changes as well. I suspect that the documentation may be lacking for late production aircraft (as there is only one surviving example). I'd go for a Me-410 collector aircraft though  Even if it was just, say the single seat version - but I'm not sure that'd be very profitable (I suppose it depends on the development cost to sales ratio).

[Jaws2002]

The BK5  version should be fun. One hit and POOF, back to hangar!  ?

Edited November 17, 2021 by Jaws2002

[Asgar]

Just now, Avimimus said:

 

Is that the only difference? There were certainly engine changes as well. I suspect that the documentation may be lacking for late production aircraft (as there is only one surviving example). I'd go for a Me-410 collector aircraft though  Even if it was just, say the single seat version - but I'm not sure that'd be very profitable (I suppose it depends on the development cost to sales ratio).

The B was supposed to get new engines (DB 603G) but development was halted in 1944 so the only difference between A and B are the MG 131

[Jaws2002]

17 minutes ago, Asgar said:

The B was supposed to get new engines (DB 603G) but development was halted in 1944 

They already did enough damage to Luftwaffe, by using the badly needed DB-603 engines, that could have done a lot more in the FW-190. 

The conversion from BMW engines, to DB-603,  for the FW-190, was straight forward and giving the DB-603 engines to Me-410 delayed the in introduction of  inline engines to the FW-190 by over a year.  The Jumo required a lot more extensive modifications to the airframe. 

  They could have had FW-190 B/C, in service early in 1943.... But they wasted 2200 valuable engines on lumbering Me-410's.

 

Edited November 17, 2021 by Jaws2002

[Asgar]

1 minute ago, Jaws2002 said:

They already did enough damage to Luftwaffe, by using the badly needed DB-602 engines, that could have done a lot more in the FW-190. 

The conversion from BMW engines, to DB-605,  for the FW-190, was straight forward and giving the DB-603 engines to Me-410 delayed the in introduction of  inline engines to the FW-190 by over a year.  The Jumo required a lot more extensive modifications to the airframe. 

  They could have had FW-190 B/C, in service early in 1943.... But they wasted 2200 valuable engines on lumbering Me-410's.

 

you shut your dirty mouth now! (all in jest) the Me 410 is beautiful ? 

[Avimimus]

Nevertheless, the devs list it as the Me-410A-1 - which makes me think that 'B' versions aren't being considered.

[Motherbrain]

On 11/28/2019 at 5:42 AM, sevenless said:

Might be interesting for some:

 

 

https://ospreypublishing.com/store/military-history/upcoming-books/available-this-month/me-210-410-zerstorer-units

 

https://www.amazon.com/-/de/dp/1472829107/ref=sr_1_1?__mk_de_DE=ÅMÅŽÕÑ&keywords=me+410&qid=1574937631&sr=8-1

 

That whole series of books is great IMO. I have a bunch about Japanese aviation and they are very interesting, if a bit dry at times.

[ShamrockOneFive]

Looks like I'm adding another book to my collection

[Chief_Mouser]

3 hours ago, ShamrockOneFive said:

Looks like I'm adding another book to my collection

 

That made me look in the bookcase and discovered that I already have it. Time for a re-read!

Cheers.

[FeuerFliegen]

On 11/17/2021 at 1:56 PM, Asgar said:

I mean, if they make the P-51B/C as one plane in the game they can do the Me 410 A/B, the only difference is the 13mm MGs replacing the 7.92mm MGs... I hope they go that route and give us ALL the mods for A and B instead of maybe bringing out another 410 in 3-4 years ?

 

The P-51 B and C are identical; the designation only specifies where it was made.

 

The B model was made in Inglewood, C model made in Dallas.

 

That being said, I also hope we get all variants and modifications.  It'd be nice to see a huge mod list similar to the Fw190 A-8 or even larger; like how it also includes the F-8 and G-8 variants.

[LukeFF]

6 hours ago, SCG_FeuerFliegen said:

The P-51 B and C are identical; the designation only specifies where it was made.

 

The B model was made in Inglewood, C model made in Dallas.

 

Yes, and for those unaware, that's also the only difference between the B-25 C and D models: the C was made in Inglewood, while the D was built in Kanas City.

Edited November 22, 2021 by LukeFF

[Asgar]

1 hour ago, LukeFF said:

 

Yes, and for those unaware, that's also the only difference between the B-25 C and D models: the C was made in Inglewood, while the D was built in Kanas City.

okay seriously America... WHY? That's as if 109s from the Bayrischen Flugzeugwerke were called Bf 109B and those from Erla in Leipzig 109E. Why would you do that?

[AndyJWest]

37 minutes ago, Asgar said:

okay seriously America... WHY? That's as if 109s from the Bayrischen Flugzeugwerke were called Bf 109B and those from Erla in Leipzig 109E. Why would you do that?

 

If you think that's bad, wait until you find out what the US Navy did...

[BlitzPig_EL]

Why?  Because we could.

[Jaws2002]

1 hour ago, AndyJWest said:

If you think that's bad, wait until you find out what the US Navy did...

Oh they are special, alright.? 

 

I flew the 110 a bit yesterday and I had a blast. It made me want the Me-410 even more.

 

Edited November 22, 2021 by Jaws2002

[BlitzPig_EL]

The AI in 110s can be damn sporty when engaged in the mid altitudes.

 

Bastages.

[[F.Circus]FrangibleCover]

13 hours ago, Asgar said:

okay seriously America... WHY? That's as if 109s from the Bayrischen Flugzeugwerke were called Bf 109B and those from Erla in Leipzig 109E. Why would you do that?

They also sometimes have misaligned Block numbers (A P-51B-5 and a P-51C-5 aren't the same aircraft). Oh, and a P-47 built in the factory at Farmingdale is designated 'RE' while the ones built in Evansville are 'RA'. I have absolutely no idea why they aren't the other way around so that it's E for Evansville and A for fArmingdale.

[BlitzPig_EL]

Can't leave the Germans out of the insanity of wartime codes either...

 

Mauser Obrendorf went by "byf", "svw" and three different number codes...

Carl Walther of PPK fame went by "ac"

Spreewerke Berlin-Spandau was "cyq"

 

There are literally hundreds of them.

 

[LukeFF]

3 hours ago, BlitzPig_EL said:

Can't leave the Germans out of the insanity of wartime codes either...

 

Mauser Obrendorf went by "byf", "svw" and three different number codes...

Carl Walther of PPK fame went by "ac"

Spreewerke Berlin-Spandau was "cyq"

 

There are literally hundreds of them.

 

Soviet rifle codes are just as bad. After all these years, I still don't think there's any consensus about what a double-dated or triple-dated Mosin rifle really means. ?

[AndyJWest]

The obvious solution to all these problems is to follow US Army practice, and call everything an M2. ?

[Asgar]

7 hours ago, BlitzPig_EL said:

Can't leave the Germans out of the insanity of wartime codes either...

 

Mauser Obrendorf went by "byf", "svw" and three different number codes...

Carl Walther of PPK fame went by "ac"

Spreewerke Berlin-Spandau was "cyq"

 

There are literally hundreds of them.

 

those are simply production line codes, but why would you make other Version numbering/lettering for the exact same plane? it's not like Mauser build Kar98k and Spandau build K98b

[Avimimus]

Jason very nicely got us an answer:

 

Quick question for the experts: Didn't it only carry 7xSD70?

 

It looks like the only variants we aren't getting are the single-seat conversion (which probably wouldn't improve handling much anyway), the 37mm Flak 43 equipped prototypes (limited ammo) and rotary rocket launcher (one off and self-igniting), and the big bombs.  The SC-1000 (might not have been worth it given the extra coding required for the partially opened doors?) or SB-1000 loadouts (which I think had issues finding parachute information?).

 

But it looks like we'll get to try using the Mk-103 and the extra 20mm cannons. Another nice surprise is the mention of being able to upgrade the machine-guns to MG-131!

 

Honestly, the only thing that is a bit disappointing is the lack of mention of choices for the gun-sight arrangements - as there were several historically, and having the telescopic sight for the BK-5 always equipped will make it harder to aim with anything else!

[Fafnir_6]

1 hour ago, Avimimus said:

Jason very nicely got us an answer:

 

Quick question for the experts: Didn't it only carry 7xSD70?

 

It looks like the only variants we aren't getting are the single-seat conversion (which probably wouldn't improve handling much anyway), the 37mm Flak 43 equipped prototypes (limited ammo) and rotary rocket launcher (one off and self-igniting), and the big bombs.  The SC-1000 (might not have been worth it given the extra coding required for the partially opened doors?) or SB-1000 loadouts (which I think had issues finding parachute information?).

 

But it looks like we'll get to try using the Mk-103 and the extra 20mm cannons. Another nice surprise is the mention of being able to upgrade the machine-guns to MG-131!

 

Honestly, the only thing that is a bit disappointing is the lack of mention of choices for the gun-sight arrangements - as there were several historically, and having the telescopic sight for the BK-5 always equipped will make it harder to aim with anything else!

I think Jason just listed the weapons mods...I don't see anything about gunsights, bulletproof windscreens and additional armor, which I know for a fact were equipped historically on the Me410.  He likely figured that we cared mostly about stuff that goes boom!  2 X 13mm and 6 X 20mm  does make me giggle insanely XD.

 

Cheers,

 

Fafnir_6

[Avimimus]

1 hour ago, Fafnir_6 said:

I think Jason just listed the weapons mods...I don't see anything about gunsights, bulletproof windscreens and additional armor, which I know for a fact were equipped historically on the Me410.  He likely figured that we cared mostly about stuff that goes boom!  2 X 13mm and 6 X 20mm  does make me giggle insanely XD.

 

Cheers,

 

Fafnir_6

 

I tried every weapon loadout in the old Il-2 - including building my own mods (e.g. a Mosquito with 2x37mm M4 cannons, an Ar-234 with 3xMk-103 firing downward at an angle). The single most reliably devastating weapons load against bombers was exactly what you describe from the Me-410. The rate of fire and dispersion mean that one can hit bombers at surprisingly long ranges... it is probably a lot more effective than the BK-5 overall.

[LuftManu]

13 hours ago, Fafnir_6 said:

I think Jason just listed the weapons mods...I don't see anything about gunsights, bulletproof windscreens and additional armor, which I know for a fact were equipped historically on the Me410.  He likely figured that we cared mostly about stuff that goes boom!  2 X 13mm and 6 X 20mm  does make me giggle insanely XD.

 

Cheers,

 

Fafnir_6

I think we saw a telescopic sight when carrying the 50 mm cannon, so there might be some modification that come together.

[Luftschiff]

Jesus, 6x 20mm cannons with 13mm's on top is making me blush.

Can't wait.

[oc2209]

4 hours ago, Luftschiff said:

Jesus, 6x 20mm cannons with 13mm's on top is making me blush.

Can't wait.

 

Does anyone happen to have rounds per gun figures on those six cannon? I kind of doubt it'll be the standard 200; less I imagine.

 

I'd be willing to part with the 13mm (in the nose) if it meant more cannon ammo; I've always been a firm believer in carrying as much ammo as possible, at least when agility isn't important or seriously affected.

[Jaws2002]

I think more than three 20mm cannons are a waste in this game. Even just two cannons are adequate firepower against the planes we have in game.

[oc2209]

54 minutes ago, Jaws2002 said:

I think more than three 20mm cannons are a waste in this game. Even just two cannons are adequate firepower against the planes we have in game.

 

2x13mm and 2x20mm will be fine 99% of the time, yes.

 

But, on the other hand, the overkill cannons are also an integral part of the 410's design: taking advantage of that modular weapons/bomb bay. It'd be disappointing if we couldn't use the various loadouts, even if they're not strictly necessary for current sim demands.

 

***

 

I just went through my 410 book and found the passage I was looking for.

 

"Lt Rudi Dassow, dissatisfied with the poor performance of the BK-5, had eight 2cm cannon mounted in the nose of his aircraft. It was a pleasure to see his successes with that lot. With that 'watering can' missing was impossible."

 

Quote from Fw Fritz Buchholz.

 

Now I want 8 cannon.

[Avimimus]

54 minutes ago, Jaws2002 said:

I think more than three 20mm cannons are a waste in this game. Even just two cannons are adequate firepower against the planes we have in game.

 

Indeed. One can already try it out in the Fw-190A5... albeit without the concentration in the nose (and with probably worse handling in many ways).

[Jaws2002]

6 minutes ago, oc2209 said:

 

2x13mm and 2x20mm will be fine 99% of the time, yes.

 

But, on the other hand, the overkill cannons are also an integral part of the 410's design: taking advantage of that modular weapons/bomb bay. It'd be disappointing if we couldn't use the various loadouts, even if they're not strictly necessary for current sim demands.

 

 

 I never said it shouldn't have the weapons it carried. I'm just talking generally about firepower in this game.

 

8 minutes ago, oc2209 said:

Now I want 8 cannon.

 

 

LoL. 

 

 

[oc2209]

1 hour ago, Jaws2002 said:

 

LoL. 

 

 

Palpatine would be a lot scarier with 8x20mm shooting from his fingertips.

 

Pfft, force lightning.

[Irishratticus72]

3 hours ago, oc2209 said:

 

 

Now I want 8 cannon.

*need ?

Edited April 7, 2022 by Irishratticus72