Question about Tempest

[SunCup]

Why can we get the Mk II or Gyro gunsight?

[CountZero]

its post war thing, with gyro on tempest i belive

 

"Unusually, in spite of the Tempest V being the RAF's best low- to medium-altitude fighter, it was not equipped with the new Mk.IIC gyroscopic gunsight (as fitted in RAF Spitfires and Mustangs from mid-1944), which would have considerably improved the chances of shooting down opposing aircraft. Tempest pilots continued to use either the Type I Mk.III reflector gunsight, which projected the sighting graticule directly onto the windscreen, or the Mk.IIL until just after the Second World War, when the gyro gunsight was introduced in Tempest IIs."

Edited November 16, 2019 by 77.CountZero

[CSW_606_Temp]

Hello Guys.
I trying find reason 600 ammo round on Tempest in Il2:Bodenplate. All my books say 200 round per gun and 800 in total. Why we have only 600 round (150 per gun)? 
 

[LukeFF]

16 minutes ago, 606_Tempik said:

Hello Guys.
I trying find reason 600 ammo round on Tempest in Il2:Bodenplate. All my books say 200 round per gun and 800 in total. Why we have only 600 round (150 per gun)?

 

That's what the available documentation says. To date, nothing official has been presented that shows a higher ammo was carried and when.

[Chief_Mouser]

4 minutes ago, LukeFF said:

 

That's what the available documentation says. To date, nothing official has been presented that shows a higher ammo was carried and when.

 

It's unfortunate, but there's only one piece of official documentation and it says 600. Personally I believe the pilots - up to 800 rounds and 16-seconds worth.

[Lusekofte]

20 minutes ago, 216th_Cat said:

 

It's unfortunate, but there's only one piece of official documentation and it says 600. Personally I believe the pilots - up to 800 rounds and 16-seconds worth.

I resd those numbers in Flypast magazine. I wonder if a Tempest pilots interview is sufficient documentation?

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

24 minutes ago, 216th_LuseKofte said:

I resd those numbers in Flypast magazine. I wonder if a Tempest pilots interview is sufficient documentation?

 

Pilot's recollections have never been considered a source, on their own, by this development team.

[Lusekofte]

6 minutes ago, II/JG17_HerrMurf said:

 

Pilot's recollections have never been considered a source, on their own, by this development team.

Understandable. I believed we had 800 in our Tempest. Because that reference I believed as fact. 

[ShamrockOneFive]

The only documentation that I have that suggests anything other than the 150rpg is a after action report copied at the back of The Big Show by Pierre Closterman. The documentation shows the number of bullets fired from each gun during the sortie and two of the guns fired 170+ rounds while the others were just a little short of that (I would assume that's normal that there's a fair bit of spread between the fire rates of these cannons). Either way it's the only thing that I have that suggests more than 150rpg.

[Lusekofte]

13 minutes ago, ShamrockOneFive said:

Either way it's the only thing that I have that suggests more than 150rpg

Yeah. I was pretty sure I could find that magazine. Thing is I do not know if I got it in paper or iPad. And I am sure it is mentioned both by Pilot reference and specification. 
I never looked at specs we have. I was sure number was 800. 
Funny how things stick as fact when it isn’t

[Chief_Mouser]

21 hours ago, ShamrockOneFive said:

The only documentation that I have that suggests anything other than the 150rpg is a after action report copied at the back of The Big Show by Pierre Closterman. The documentation shows the number of bullets fired from each gun during the sortie and two of the guns fired 170+ rounds while the others were just a little short of that (I would assume that's normal that there's a fair bit of spread between the fire rates of these cannons). Either way it's the only thing that I have that suggests more than 150rpg.

 

I saw another recently. A Tempest pilot mentioned that he had 16-seconds worth of ammunition. At 3,000 rounds per minute - a figure that's not disputed - that's 800 rounds, i.e. 200 per gun. If I find it again I will post it, but I'm not sure where I saw it so it remains anecdotal for now, and will probably stay that way even if I do.

 

Edit: Btw there is a typo in the Tempest description. It says 650 rounds per minute when it should say 750. The short-barrelled British Hispano Mk Vs had a higher rate of fire that the US built version of the cannon.

Edited April 19, 2020 by 216th_Cat
Explanation.

[Mollotin]

10 minutes ago, 216th_Cat said:

 

I saw another recently. A Tempest pilot mentioned that he had 16-seconds worth of ammunition. At 3,000 rounds per minute - a figure that's not disputed - that's 800 rounds, i.e. 200 per gun. If I find it again I will post it, but I'm not sure where I saw it so it remains anecdotal for now, and will probably stay that way even if I do.

 

Well, u also need to consider how accurate his statement was meant to be. I dont know the context so this is just speculation here.

 

Did he use a watch while firing to determine he had ammo for 16:00 seconds? Or maybe math, like you.

 

Or  maybe he said that just to give readers a general  idea how fast the guns go empty. 

[Chief_Mouser]

17 minutes ago, Mollotin said:

 

Well, u also need to consider how accurate his statement was meant to be. I dont know the context so this is just speculation here.

 

Did he use a watch while firing to determine he had ammo for 16:00 seconds? Or maybe math, like you.

 

Or  maybe he said that just to give readers a general  idea how fast the guns go empty. 

 

The way I read it, it seemed like a throwaway remark, as if it was nothing special but just how it was. Something that everybody knew; if he'd have said that he had 200 rpg it would have been better!

[Lusekofte]

I firmly believe I am correct in my statement that it had 800 on each gun. I also respect the fact that developers follow the facts they got. 
if I find that magazine I do not believe it will be regarded as sufficient. 
But it is not only that magazine, I knew it had that number before, I kind of regarded it as common knowledge

[Megalax]

Chris Thomas posts on social media in some groups I follow. I will ask him there.

[Chief_Mouser]

Every website and what-have-you says 200rpg. The problem is, none of them say where that figure has come from. I think that this was used by the devs for the figure of 150 rpg. It's about all there is.

 

[Talon_]

Operational Records Books show sorties with over 1000 rounds expended, demonstrating the possibility to overload the ammo boxes as in the Mustang and P-47. 150 was an operational parameter and nothing more.

[Voyager]

Best bet might be to find the dimensions on the ammo boxes for the aircraft, and/or see if you can correlate the designs with the later Hawker Fury, along with whatever ammo belt types they used during the war. The links take up space as well and need to be considered, along with actually folding the whole thing up to fit. 

 

If the ammo boxes can't fit a 200 round belt, then you'll have resolved the answer. If, it turns out the boxes have room to spare for a 150 round belt, then you'll have the ammunition to argue for the 200 or more round loads as options.

 

I've seen that there are sites with blueprints for various WWII aircraft available, though I haven't looked for the Tempest specifically. 

[LukeFF]

7 hours ago, Talon_ said:

Operational Records Books show sorties with over 1000 rounds expended, demonstrating the possibility to overload the ammo boxes as in the Mustang and P-47. 150 was an operational parameter and nothing more.

 

Are there any such records in 486 Squadron's ORB? I have this one on my computer and am curious if they mention those numbers.