Manual gearbox

[Sputnik77]

Hi,

I could not find any topic about manual gearbox in tanks, hard to believe it has not been raised.

 

Will manual gear changes be implemented and mandatory in driver view, together with all the possible engine damage from bad shifting, stalling and running engine at max rev?

The system in Steel Fury Kharkov is pretty much spot on when  it comes to driver simulation and IMO it should be similar here.

 

I think changing gears in driver position should be mandatory and options like automatic gears and automatic clutch should be available in realism game settings as simplifications/helpers.

 

Of course then the arcade option to control tank directly from TC or gunner position should be removed.

Player should have only two options. Either command driver to drive the tank with all the AI limitations and delays in command - execution. Or get into driver position and do the job better/worse than AI but taking the challenge of operating system as close to RL as possible.

[KARAYA1]

I sure hope we get manual gear box, what we have today is just strange. I use the gear limier to handle the tank better,

[Yogiflight]

3 hours ago, Sputnik77 said:

Hi,

I could not find any topic about manual gearbox in tanks, hard to believe it has not been raised

It was asked pretty soon in the prerelease, and Jason's answer was, that he does not think they will be able to do this (currently?). The gear limiter was implemented a bit later, as a work around, I guess. Let's hope it will come sometime. For playing as a driver in multicrew it definitely is necessary. 

[photog95661]

7 hours ago, Sputnik77 said:

Of course then the arcade option to control tank directly from TC or gunner position should be removed.

Player should have only two options. Either command driver to drive the tank with all the AI limitations and delays in command - execution. Or get into driver position and do the job better/worse than AI but taking the challenge of operating system as close to RL as possible.

 

I am not enamored with this recommendation.  When in the driver's position the player should have increased tasking if one desires that.  However, players in other positions should retain the option to direct movement of the tank, i.e. forward, reverse or turn.

[Sputnik77]

18 hours ago, photog95661 said:

 

I am not enamored with this recommendation.  When in the driver's position the player should have increased tasking if one desires that.  However, players in other positions should retain the option to direct movement of the tank, i.e. forward, reverse or turn.

 

If the game is aiming to be a tank sim, the player  in driver position should have realistic tasking mandatory and only reduce the load with turning arcade game options and simplifications on.

The same in commander or gunner view, there should be no direct control as it surpasses real life tank crew ability by skipping the command- execution delay.

The commander should only give commands not control directly and driver should execute those commands with 1- 2 seconds delay required for commander to say command and driver to listen, process and execute it.

[photog95661]

5 hours ago, Sputnik77 said:

f the game is aiming to be a tank sim, the player  in driver position should have realistic tasking mandatory and only reduce the load with turning arcade game options and simplifications on.

The same in commander or gunner view, there should be no direct control as it surpasses real life tank crew ability by skipping the command- execution delay.

The commander should only give commands not control directly and driver should execute those commands with 1- 2 seconds delay required for commander to say command and driver to listen, process and execute it.

We might be saying the same thing:  1.) The driver's task should be as complex as possible (including manual gear shifting).  2.) The commander should be issuing direction to the driver and/or gunner.  My concern lies in the mechanics of implementing such a situation.  In all my game play, I occupy the commander position.  When I want to go forward, I depress the up arrow.  Is not depressing the up arrow not the same as issuing a forward command?  To modify the sim to make issuing a verbal command more complex, say depressing other or more keys is counter productive.  Perhaps the key lies in your response?  How about adding a delay in response to depressing any of the arrow keys when occupying the commander position?

[Yogiflight]

I am absolutely with you. The commanding should be something you do more or less mechanically, without thinking or searching a long time. One simple key, you press, hearing the commanders order to the driver/gunner, and with a little relay, the crew member doing what he was told. something like that, not opening a menu, looking for the right key, which brings you to the next menu and so on. The delay should not be at your side, because the commander doesn't have to think a long time, what he wants to order. The delay should be done by the game after the command.

[Sputnik77]

Yes, I think we talk the same thing.

By direct steering I mean current system where you press WSAD or Arrow keys and you control driving directly from commander or gunner positions. This is arcade simplification.

What I would like to see is system like in Steel Fury Kharkov or ARMA series, where in commander or gunner you don't drive the tank but you give commands to the driver.

 

I think simple way of implementing it in game now, using features already in game, could look like this:

 

1. Whenever there is no human player in driver position, the autopilot always switches on. It switches off as soon as human player gets into driver pos.

 

2. In gunner and commander view, the 4 tank driving buttons receive function of being mapped directly to specific driving actions from menu. Lets talk WSAD here as example:

W is mapped to whole chain of pressing tilde-> F3 movement-> F2 forward.

S - tilde->F3 movement->reverse

A - tilde->F3->F6 turn-> 10 degrees left

D - as above but 10 degrees right 

Space - stop

 

Additional 3 buttons could be mapped for speed and the whole numeric keyboard for 8-way turn control covering all degrees 45,90,135,180 .

 

AI is still driving but instead of browsing menu to order him, player has buttons mapped to give simple orders with 1 click not 7. It would be addition to already existing menu system.

Edited November 17, 2019 by Sputnik77

[Yogiflight]

Two things, I would like to add.

First, there has to be a settings menu for the tanks, that does not influence the settings for the aircrafts, to make absolutely clear, that there won't be any conflicts with double settings.

Second, there has to be the possibility to select this as an option in the realism settings, so anyone, who wants to just play around a bit, for example in the QMB, can feel free to move the tank, by steering it from the commander or gunner position, the way we have it now.

[=362nd_FS=RoflSeal]

I would prefer having the commander/gunner controls over the drivers be like this
W - increases target speed. Double tap W to make the driver go as fast as possible

S - decreases the target speed. Double tap S for the driver to go in reverse as fast as possible.

A & D - turn left & right. On the gui, a clock hand would display, the longer you hold it, the more the tank will turn. e.g. Hold D till the "clock reaches 3", the driver will then make a 90 degree right hand turn.

Shift A & D - "special turn". This engages the second turning mode, e.g. on the T-34 would would turn by engaging the brake instead just disengage the clutch to one track. On the Tiger the tank would engage the second set of differentials. In this scenario the driver would make a tighter turn.

Space - stop.

This can then be expanded to instructing the gunner while in commander view, e.g. Hold Left or right arrow key to tell the gunner to rotate the turret a set amount of degrees left/right

Edited November 18, 2019 by =362nd_FS=RoflSeal

[photog95661]

I see the potential for a lot of good suggestions here.  However, whatever the devs attempt to implement, I would hope the commander never becomes a "button monkey."  The commander should only be tasking the crew members actions whether they be the driver or gunner.  For example, the driver should need to change gears for various reasons and should have the ability to perform those activities.  The commander's function is to issues commands (direct and straight-forward) while the crew's function is to make those commands happen.  Keeping to the example, the commander should say forward and the driver should control the treads and the accelerator and, ultimately, shift gears..

[Fliegel]

Yes, that would be good. Both the manual gear and the commands.
Something like in Operation Flashpoint, which is what =362nd_FS=RoflSeal described (except in OF tank just starts turning with A/D or left/right keys push and stops turning with their release... both with delay so it was a bit unintuitive at first but perhaps faster).

photog95661: I think that was the point - that after the order forward and some delay, driver will accelerate and will take care about changing gears and such without additional orders. Though I think he would not be able to stick with the road and similar .

But here we have the answer about the manual gear (so now we only can hope it will come eventually):

 

Edited November 21, 2019 by Fliegel