Please add Binoculars + Binocular-Menu for Commander

[104th_IronMike]

Hi all,

first of all I really enjoy Tank Crew, it has great potential and has come a long way imo, thanks!

I think a lot of us like to play the commander role, and reading several posts and threads I think that we all can agree that atm the command menu is not flexible enough to fulfill the commander's needs. I would like to propose a solution which imo could work nicely:

1. Add the command menu items as bindable inputs. Each player will find several of these that he uses most often and binding them directly could eliminate menu navigation.

2. And imo most importantly: please add binoculars for the commander, which could include a binocular commander quick menu. However this is achieved, just to illustrate, an idea would be to have some very basic commands, that can serve for a plethora of fast reaction situations, but are quick to navigate and execute. I'll just go by the example of using a mouse for this:

a) Bring up the commander binoculars (realistic but powerful binoculars), that have an aiming center point.

b) click right mouse button and a scroll menu opens, including the following commands, which could be selected by MMB scroll and activated with left mouse button click:

    1. Move / <-turns into "stop" when moving: this command makes the driver move into the direction of binocular center. Speed would be selected from main command menu, the quick command using always the last setting.
    2. Turn: this command makes the driver simply turn into the direction of binocular center, also when not moving.
    3. Fallback / <-turns into "stop" when moving: this command makes the driver simply reverse facing with the front the direction of binocular center
    4. Attack: this command makes the gunner fire at the target close or at the center of the binoculars, regardless of ammo choice (can still be selected from main command menu)
    5. Fire: this command makes the gunner fire at the center of the binoculars, regardles of target/object presence
    6. Cease Fire: this command makes the gunner cease fire

    7. Turret: this command makes the gunner turn the turret simply into the direction of binocular center without engaging anything


Each command for driver and gunner respectively should completely override any previous command, for example attack target 1, but target 2 moves into view, command "attack target 2" and gunner immediately drops target 1 and shifts to target 2 etc.. Or as an example for driver: fallback has been engaged, the driver is reversing, but instead of clicking the now available "stop" option, you just click move, and the driver stops, sets to fwd gear and starts driving towards the move command...

It does not necessarily have to be mouse and scroll menu, although I find this would be the easiest and quickest for the player, but the important part is to have this set of quick and easy basic commands that immediately override any previous command. With the above selection of commands in my opinion the commander would be able to react to almost any situation quickly.

The absolute bonus would be to implement a second such menu for the platoon commands that follows the exact same outline.


I hope these ideas make sense and give some constructive fruit for thought for the further evolution of tank crew, commanding is a particularly fun position, and would in my opinion benefit from such a binocular based quick menu a lot. Thank you very much for taking it under consideration.

EDIT: this is meant as an addition to the main command menu, not to replace it. in combination with such a quick command menu, the main menu imo would be fine as is.

EDIT 2: I forgot to mention that this option kind of exists with left clicking the red circle while command menu is open, this brings up a sort of quick menu, but imo it is still a bit more time extensive to navigate as opposed to above, has not the same immersion and precision as binoculars and mainly poses the problem that once the clickspot is chosen, all actions are tied to it. The binocular menu should be flexible also so that the command is executed in relation to where the center was when the command was clicked, if that makes sense.

 

Edited November 11, 2019 by 104th_IronMike

[MarderIV]

On top of having binds for the commands (I kind of disagree a bit on just how it should be), I think worst of TC functions is in the fact that Autopilot needs to be toggled from the driver seat, instead of being active all the time and only temporarily being disconnected when manual inputs are executed. Think of it this way: As A/P is always on, the player can continue to use commands as normal, yet once certain manual actions are needed such as turning the turret or the hull, A/P disconnects temporarily to allow the player to use the navigation keys instead of the commands. 

 

As for the bindings mentioned, yes I think we really need access to those. But maybe in a compact, context-derived rose menu similar to what we can see in the GTOS user interface, considering our current UI already facilitates contextual commands when you pinpoint a target as TC. There's a reason the old Graviteam titles did away with right-click scroll menus or dropdowns and replaced it with the rose system, it's just too wonky and depends on text description instead of symbology. Having less keystrokes and mouse clicks I think would be better.

 

Practically speaking the current system captures the orders you'd expect a TC to communicate (lacking a bit in some such as commanding Gunner orientation without pointing somewhere, which is extremely important for fixed-cupola equipped tanks). But how it meshes with the rest of the action is underwhelming. The system established for planes is fine because it's general enough that you could get by with just a couple orders. But for tanks it's a lot more intimate. 

 

I think for now the quickest fix would be an Autopilot connect/disconnect process. Just to give everyone a bit of quick flexibility

[104th_IronMike]

I used the scroll menu just as an example as it is easy to explain, in terms of 123... A command rose is great of course and preferable. The quickmenu however should be onestep commands though, and the most important imo, tied to binocular use. For example if you do not have the HUD showing (with i), you do not see where the red circle is, and as mentioned above, "click where you aim" gives the biggest flexibility. Like I said, keep the menu as is, but add a quick menu to give those general enough orders for fast reaction situations. It does not have to be always a complicated string of commands, which a real commander would maybe cost two words "back, slow!" instead of open menu-> movement -> backwards ->open menu again -> movement -> speed -> slow speed. That's 1 rl commander action comprised of 2 words vs a 7 step player action. Just point and drive helps in these cases, while you can still use fine management in less hectic moments. Immersion wise the current "just zoom in the view" without binoculars is also a bit of a show stopper imo. Additionally the commander should have access to a compass, which could for the sake of gameplay be included at the bottom of the screen when binoculars/periscope are used, similar like in Hell let loose for example or silent hunter, etc. Yes, it is not 100% realistic, but if done elegantly, those are realism trade offs well in favor of gameplay, to be considered at least.

And one huge downside, if I may add, atm, is that commands are not immediately overwritten, but I suppose that is a bug. Say I command "attack target 1" and then command "attack target 2" the gunner will only attack target 2 once target 1 is destroyed, etc, as mentioned in other threads.

Another ease of use addition would be the simple movement commands of fwd, back, left, right with the arrow keys, where each up arrow is from stop to slow to half to full and down arrow back to half to slow to stop to reverse, and left and right each press gives you 10° in either direction. (Accompanied by the commander voice command "forward, slow!" "forward fast!" with each press. This, too, is not meant for sole use, but as an addition where stuff like that helps when situations get hairy.

All that said, I think tank crew is already feeling great, and the potential shows. Driving a Tiger never felt so good. ?

[MarderIV]

29 minutes ago, 104th_IronMike said:

Another ease of use addition would be the simple movement commands of fwd, back, left, right with the arrow keys, where each up arrow is from stop to slow to half to full and down arrow back to half to slow to stop to reverse, and left and right each press gives you 10° in either direction. (Accompanied by the commander voice command "forward, slow!" "forward fast!" with each press. This, too, is not meant for sole use, but as an addition where stuff like that helps when situations get hairy.

 

I think this is the key take-away here: Integrating the commands directly to what player's keystrokes are versus separating them entirely. Arma 3 does exactly what you mentioned, the TC commands are attached to the WASD keys directly. Steel Armor on the other hand uses Hold and Release for A and D keys to determine degrees traversal for the hull. A lot of stuff in Tank Crew could really do some adjustment. The first example you mentioned is pretty much bang on - why waste time sending 7 steps versus simply having two (or even just one if the driver responds to WASD keys while you're TC). 

 

I sincerely hope the devs see these kind of threads. I think it'd be a shame if we're going to be stuck with the current system all the way to release and beyond. 

[104th_IronMike]

33 minutes ago, MarderIV said:

 

I sincerely hope the devs see these kind of threads. I think it'd be a shame if we're going to be stuck with the current system all the way to release and beyond. 

Agreed, although I am sure they see this, the TC forum is quite overseeable. If you do, thanks for the great work, devs!

Btw forgot to mention that I agree about the autopilot as well, this especially should be available from each position imo, not only the commander. The autopilot if you hit a certain queue of commands it seems still does some quirky stuff (like spinning around, or driving to a previous waypoint or move command), so a quick disabling it (and thus resetting move commands) would go a long way, too.

And finally, before I forget: a repair menu item for the command would be great, so that if several damages have been done, you can either select just "repair" and it does it as it does now, or select the item you want repaired first (first engine, then tracks, then visors) for example.

The "ceterum censeo.." still being binoculars though, hehe, imo a real must for the commander, and command actions tied to them. 

Edited November 11, 2019 by 104th_IronMike