AI aircrafts and communication need overhaul

[Nic727]

Hi,

 

The communication in the game seem broken with AI. Here are some example of what's wrong :

 

1. Most of the time, your allies are not answering or you don't even hear what you are requesting, so you don't really know if the communication work.

2. Asking for cover (help?) seem to work 50% of the time or your allies are too slow to react.

3. Allies continue fighting even out of ammos. They should have a dialog saying "I'm out of ammo I'm returning to base" or something like that.

4. Most of the times, when enemies are all destroyed, allies just go away in different direction instead of joining the formation automatically.

5. There is no way to just ask allies to join the formation without choosing a formation type.

6. There is no way to ask something to only wingman 1 like in Il2 1946 or to the team asking for more support from the base.

7. Would love to see better airfield tower communication like in IL2 1946 (vector to the base, vector to objective, runway light, asking for takeoff yourself, asking for landing yourself, asking support - planes spawn and takeoff to help you).

8. For some reasons, when asking your allies to return to base, it act like a "request to land" and some flares are dropped automatically from your plane.

9. In combat, some allies almost collided with me when following a plane.

10. Enemy aircraft stop shooting you or don't dogfight. Maybe too limited in movements? An aircraft was following me and started shooting (and missed), I did a loop and the enemy plane just continued straight without trying to stay in my back.

11. Allies not following orders, not talking back. Sometime even the player pilot is not talking... Is giving order works?

12. Can’t give order to attack ground target if not equipped with bombs? I asked BF109 to attack ground target and they were just circling around.

13. Enemies only doing circles.

14. Enemies keeping formation when attacked or almost destroyed.

15. No way to give commands between « attack fighters » or « attack bombers ».

16. If you fly near the runway, it ask permission to land even if you are dogfighting over the airfield.

17. The current « patrol » doesn’t work since ally planes just do circles in way too close formation and don’t attack enemies instead of patrolling the area separately.

 

In 1946 communications are more dynamic and you actually hear people enjoying combat like "Great job number 2 you killed one!" or "I need help there is someone on my six!"

 

Here are the possible solutions :

 

More movements for AI

Currently, allies or enemies seem to ignore each other or only doing circle in dogfight or staying in straight line. Adding more movements like loops and other tactics would improve a lot the current dogfight.

 

AI need to be more aware of their surrounding

Most of the time, they ignore you if you start shooting them if they are not a flight leader. They continue formation flight even if they risk to die.

 

Get rid of flare communication

Even if this is a good thing if you are slow or want to communicate your position when crash landed. It's not realistic to shoot flare in Il2 GB because the canopy is closed, but also because you have radio communication.

 

More dynamic communication with allies

Currently, if you are in a flight of 4, sometimes all 3 other planes will say the same thing : "congratulation you got one" without any variety. Would love to see more communications like :

- Hey number #, check your six!

- Enemy fighters/bombers _ o'clock high/low

- I'm getting shot at. I need help!

- I need assistance in square ____.

- We are starting our attack run.

- etc.

 

More manual communication options

 

The current communication system is a bit broken. Most of the communication is automated and it's just very confusing most of the time. Here is my suggestion to get something much better :

In green are commands that could be available in multiplayer for more dynamic voice communication.

• F1 : Gestual
• F2 : Flight order
  • Order
    • Maintain position and wait
    • Attack enemy fighters / Attack enemy fighters in square XXX.XX (saying the square you are currently in)
    • Attack enemy bombers / Attack enemy bombers in square XXX.XX
    • Attack ground targets / I attack ground target in square XXX.XX
    • Cover me / Cover me in square XXX.XX
    • Pursue mission
    • Return to base / I return to base
  • Formation
    • Regroup (default/last formation)
    • Column formation
    • Formation echelon left
    • Formation echelon right
    • V formation
  • Patrol
    • Patrol the area / I patrol the area in XXX.XX
    • Patrol and intercept enemy aircrafts
    • Patrol and intercept enemy ground target
• F3 : Wingman order (if not leader) or second flight order (if you have more than one flight formation + can go two third flight order, etc.)
  • Same as above
• F4 : Tower/Airfield
  • Ask permission to takeoff
  • Ask permission to land (for you)
  • Ask permission to land for squadron (to make your squadron go land after you. This thing is already existing and automated).
  • Ask vector to next waypoint
  • Ask vector to closest objective
  • Ask vector to the base
  • Ask air support in square XXX.XX (if available, it will spawn planes at the airport to help you in your mission)
• F5 : I need help, attack my pursuer! / I need help in XXX.XX
• Esc

 

 

 

Thank you

Edited June 11, 2020 by Nic727

[Rei-sen]

Having radio comms like in 1946 will be a huge improvement for this sim. Ideally we need even better. 

[Mikhail-0331]

+1 regarding this topic

I don't think you mention how they brake formation to do objective without being notified to do so.

 

I would be happy to hear future announcement regarding this. Communication is one of the top 5 things you need to get down in warfare.

 

On 11/6/2019 at 4:08 PM, Nic727 said:

5. There is no way to just ask allies to join the formation without choosing a formation type.

 

I believe pressing "~" then "F1" and then "F6" (Do like me) works to get them back in formation. Verbiage of that action makes no sense. It should just say "get in formation"

[=621=Samikatz]

I'd also like the player aircraft to not broadcast any messages I didn't intentionally send. Why is the player calling out spotted targets that I, myself, haven't looked at yet?

[Feathered_IV]

2 hours ago, =621=Samikatz said:

I'd also like the player aircraft to not broadcast any messages I didn't intentionally send. Why is the player calling out spotted targets that I, myself, haven't looked at yet?

 

I couldn’t agree more.  

[MasserME262]

Ahh, 1946. I LOVED radio in that game.

 

Sometimes I just set a 16vs16 fighters battle in a QMB over an airfield to let the chaos of radio start, was so much fun.

[Nic727]

Another stupid flight with AI tonight.

 

I was doing a scripted campaign. I took off from the airbase with my 109 and one wingman. He was following me no problem.

I finally saw a group of Il2 bellow me and I said to my allie "attack the closed aircraft" or something like that and well... He was just gone. After a while, a I-16 started attacking me. I asked for cover and my wingmate finally came to attack him. Look like he missed some shot, but I was finally in the back of the I-16 trying to kill it. My wingman was gone another time. I was out of ammo before killing the I-16, but he finally crashed out of fuel. Whatever, I asked my wingman to return to base... And he went to the wrong base to land...

 

Something is wrong with the AI in this game. I don't even hear answers from wingman when I ask something. It's silent radio.

I miss in Il2 1946 when there were around 3 allies on one enemies and vice-versa.

 

Also when I was attacking the Il2, they were just following their route like if I wasn't there.

Edited January 29, 2020 by Nic727

[Tarkus8]

Yes, AI ruins the single player experience, plain and simple

[Nic727]

So, can someone explain me those things?
 

1. Why is my wingman taking left wing formation by default? Is it not suppose to be #2 and #4 on right wing and #3 on left wing?
    
2. Is there a radio range or my allies only stupid?
   For example, I was attacking an enemy and I ask my wingman to attack close enemies. I shot the enemy and he was leaking fuel and returned to base, so I just leave him alone. For some reasons, my wingman and another allies just continued pursuing him to the death... While I was returning to base alone, I asked my wingman to join V formation (only option since there is just no "join the formation" option) and he didn't respond. When they shot down the enemy, he was finally returning... But I got the kill... Explain me that plz! Is Shared kill a thing or it's only the one who did more damage or shot first?
    
3. I'm also lost when there is automatic communication from us. Like when we return to base. It's not even saying "you" in the communication tab, but "Bf109..." so no way to really understand if it's us or an allies who is communicating. Why not just allow us to ask for landing/takeoff ourself?
    
4. Better combat communication. In Il2 1946, it's a bit too much with the "help me, he is on my six" all 5 seconds, but in Il2 GB, it's like if nobody asking for help or giving orders.

Edited June 18, 2020 by Nic727

[41Sqn_Skipper]

Regarding question 2 "join the formation": I think the command No. 5 "Resume Mission" is causing this.

 

[Nic727]

I’m just sad the AI is making the scripted campaign ridiculous.

 

they were 4 vs me... They just ignored me when they pass by me. I starred shooting one. They all start doing circle and my allies are just turning around not shooting at anybody.

 

Enemies bombers keeping formation even if they are 90% destroyed.

 

EDIT: I added solutions in the main post.

Edited June 10, 2020 by Nic727

[I./JG52_Woutwocampe]

Good first post, the AI and communications are flawed and that the polite way of saying it.

 

Games from the 90s like European air war did better in that regard....especially about in-flight communications.

[FTC_Zero]

On 12/4/2019 at 1:41 AM, ME-BFMasserME262 said:

Ahh, 1946. I LOVED radio in that game.

 

Sometimes I just set a 16vs16 fighters battle in a QMB over an airfield to let the chaos of radio start, was so much fun.

"Here number 2. Whuaaaaaa I'm burning!!!"

[UFA_Bagel]

I think it's the problem number one for SP. Communication and pair/flight/squadron management like in old IL-2 would be so much better. I like career and scripred campaigns in general but this issue just ruins it. If IL-2 team invests in scripred campaigns they really should prioritise this.

Edited July 5, 2020 by elegz

[Q_Walker]

Reviving this thread just because I am in the belief that we are getting close to seeing this happening. Ever since the dedicated AI dev was hired, we have slowly been seeing improvements to the AI. I believe that we will see the devs look into this further.

[BillyWest]

Interesting to see this was originally posted over a year ago, and nothing seems to have improved.  I googled this topic as I'm having some real frustrations in Flying Circus with the AI and it's all of the same issues the OP posted.

 

As the squadron leader, I have an idea of where we're going. Ideally my squadron will stay in formation until I give the order to attack, but NOPE... Once we get a certain distance from enemy fighters, they'll break formation and do their own thing.

 

Example.  I decided to take my entire squadron of all 13 machines out in order to get them some kills (using Pat Wilson campaign generator).  Even on the way out, they refuse to enter the formation I've ordered (V). They're dotted all over the place, albeit whilst following me.  I see two groups of enemy fighters and head for the group directly ahead.  The other group are of to the left and despite us having an altitude advantage some of the squadron break off, descend below the enemy and go after them. In total we're engaging around 14 enemy fighters and once engaged, I hold back, watch from above to allow them to get some kills.  Most of my squadron just circled around whilst one would engage rather than helping each other out.  This went on before I eventually had to swoop in and take some of the enemy out. After about 30 mins, I gave the order to RTB, and once the mission had finished among them, they'd clocked up 1 kill.

 

AI Squadron is absolutely useless and so is giving them orders.

 

Given this hasn't changed in over a year, I'm sceptical it ever will.

[DD_Arthur]

On 7/2/2021 at 10:52 AM, BillyWest said:

Most of my squadron just circled around whilst one would engage rather than helping each other out.  This went on before I eventually had to swoop in and take some of the enemy out. After about 30 mins, I gave the order to RTB, and once the mission had finished among them, they'd clocked up 1 kill.

 

AI Squadron is absolutely useless and so is giving them orders.

 

Given this hasn't changed in over a year, I'm sceptical it ever will.

 

Yeah, I see this in single missions I generate.

It all looks really impressive - all these biplanes wheeling around in the sky - until it dawns on you that your squad mates are nearly all pacifists ?

[Theodore_Morgan]

Wingmen communications is really frustrating and lifeless. I hope they improve it for the Normandy campaign.

One advice is to command your wingmen "Do like me". They wont brake apart and it will stay in formation until you give other command.

It won´t help a lot in the end though.

[Guest deleted@191198]

UP

[Corralandy120000]

I really hope this will happen. I pointed to this problem in my own post and I totally agree this is nr. 1 problem in simgleplayer. It's too bad we still haven't heard a word on this from the devs ?

[kraut1]

On 11/15/2019 at 2:20 AM, Feathered_IV said:

 

I couldn’t agree more.  

 

On 11/14/2019 at 11:28 PM, =621=Samikatz said:

I'd also like the player aircraft to not broadcast any messages I didn't intentionally send. Why is the player calling out spotted targets that I, myself, haven't looked at yet?

Updated:

here the released Mod:

 

 

Edited November 20, 2022 by kraut1
Updated, mod released