Gasping for air

[HagarTheHorrible]

What effects does reduced oxygen levels have ?

 

I was tootling about at 15,000ft the other day and wondered if I should be starting to be affected and if so how ?  I then tried 8000m, as suggested in a previous post, but can't say I noticed any effects on me, unless part of the reduced turn rate,at that altitude, was lack of oxygen rather than simply aircraft performance related ?

[Zooropa_Fly]

I'm not sure, but when I've got the volume up, the Lady of the house looks in wondering what I'm up to.

[Cynic_Al]

 

55 minutes ago, HagarTheHorrible said:

What effects does reduced oxygen levels have ?

 

 

A progressive tendency to forget the availability of search engines.

[HagarTheHorrible]

7 hours ago, Cynic_Al said:

 

 

A progressive tendency to forget the availability of search engines.

.......and what did your, non-oxygen starved brain, search results come back with ?  Mine came back with “start your aircraft at 8000m and see what happens”, with no further posts to enlighten us further.  
 

Presumably,  YOUR  search results could elucidate us further ?  At what level do effects start to be felt and what are they and how can they be differentiated from aircraft performance loss ?

[OrLoK]

*grabs popcorn*

 

 

 

back on topic, I'd also like to know. 

 

I'd always assumed it's was simply flight characteristics. it'll be interesting to find out

[Elem]

9 hours ago, HagarTheHorrible said:

What effects does reduced oxygen levels have ?

 

I was tootling about at 15,000ft the other day and wondered if I should be starting to be affected and if so how ?  I then tried 8000m, as suggested in a previous post, but can't say I noticed any effects on me, unless part of the reduced turn rate,at that altitude, was lack of oxygen rather than simply aircraft performance related ?

In short, you would have blacked out...

https://www.skybrary.aero/index.php/Hypoxia

[Todt_Von_Oben]

15,000 feet MSL usually ain't that bad.

 

Back in my day, FAR's required a commercial pilot to have supplemental oxygen for flights above 12,500 feet lasting longer than 1/2 an hour.  The passengers weren't required to have  any.

 

Above 14,000 feet MSL. FAR's say pilot must use supplemental oxygen and it has to be available to the passengers.

 

The cabin of a jetliner is usually pressurized to simulate about 7 or 8K feet. 

 

As a jump pilot and skydiver, I've been to 15,000 feet a few times when nobody had oxygen.  Never had a problem.

 

What you experience at that altitude is sort of like the first stages of getting drunk.  You're wired up on a combination of adrenalin and hypoxia.  Seems normal with skydivers, though.  

 

It never stopped me from flying a plane effectively; I don't see any reason why it would noticeably affect this sim, either.

 

Now, 20,000 feet and above is a whole 'nother story.  But 15K?  Not so bad.

 

FWIW

Edited November 6, 2019 by Todt_Von_Oben
add adverb

[Elem]

And at this Alt?...

 

10 hours ago, HagarTheHorrible said:

I then tried 8000m

 

[Todt_Von_Oben]

That's above 26,000 feet.  I've never been that high in a non-pressurized airplane and if somebody wanted me to fly that high without oxygen; I'd say no.  But that's just me.

 

Pilots in WWI flew up around 20,000 feet and their biggest complaint was the cold.

 

Mt. Everest is over 29,000 feet and I hear a person can expect to feel very challenged for oxygen up there.  Then again, the Sherpa's breathe that stuff all day.  A lot depends on the person but generally speaking, this kind of altitude ain't at all hospitable to most human beings.

 

The thing about hypoxia; it makes you feel over-confident; warm and giddy, like everything is okey-dokey.  So you might not recognize the advanced stages coming on and then, blink: you lose consciousness.  In a plane, that's a problem.

 

Exactly where that happens depends on a lot of variables, the pilot included.  But I would think at 26,000 feet MSL and above without oxygen for any appreciable length of time; the pilot's asking for trouble and probably gonna find it.

 

ADNOTE: Temperature is a bigger problem, I think.  Let's say the adiabatic cooling rate is about 5 degrees farenheit per thousand feet altitude.   That's a drop of 100 degrees from the runway to 20,000 feet.  It was a balmy 75 degrees when you took off; but it's 25 degrees below zero at altitude.  Even if you can do that once or twice; how long before your sinuses plug up and you go stone deaf?  I think temperature at altitude was a bigger problem for First War pilots than oxygen starvation. Cecil Lewis had some good comments about that in Sagitarius Rising, too.

Edited November 6, 2019 by Todt_Von_Oben

[Zooropa_Fly]

8000M (26000ish ft) is the threshold above which they call it the 'death zone'.

At this point one's body is slowly dying, so you'd better not stay there long.

But even before this, climbers generally have to acclimatise to the lack of oxygen in stages before getting to 8k.

As Todt alluded to, I think the biggest danger with hypoxia is not recognising the symptoms early.

[HagarTheHorrible]

2 hours ago, Todt_Von_Oben said:

That's above 26,000 feet.  I've never been that high in a non-pressurized airplane and if somebody wanted me to fly that high without oxygen; I'd say no.  But that's just me.

 

Pilots in WWI flew up around 20,000 feet and their biggest complaint was the cold.

 

Mt. Everest is over 29,000 feet and I hear a person can expect to feel very challenged for oxygen up there.  Then again, the Sherpa's breathe that stuff all day.  A lot depends on the person but generally speaking, this kind of altitude ain't at all hospitable to most human beings.

 

The thing about hypoxia; it makes you feel over-confident; warm and giddy, like everything is okey-dokey.  So you might not recognize the advanced stages coming on and then, blink: you lose consciousness.  In a plane, that's a problem.

 

Exactly where that happens depends on a lot of variables, the pilot included.  But I would think at 26,000 feet MSL and above without oxygen for any appreciable length of time; the pilot's asking for trouble and probably gonna find it.

 

ADNOTE: Temperature is a bigger problem, I think.  Let's say the adiabatic cooling rate is about 5 degrees farenheit per thousand feet altitude.   That's a drop of 100 degrees from the runway to 20,000 feet.  It was a balmy 75 degrees when you took off; but it's 25 degrees below zero at altitude.  Even if you can do that once or twice; how long before your sinuses plug up and you go stone deaf?  I think temperature at altitude was a bigger problem for First War pilots than oxygen starvation. Cecil Lewis had some good comments about that in Sagitarius Rising, too.

 

 

Yep, Everest was conquered by oxygen.  Prior to 52, oxygen had been used, but they had used pilot data from the war and hadn't taken into account that climbers were far more active and needed a different regime. You might say it was the expedition doctor who was most important person in the Hillary/Tensing team.

 

I know it's all just idle thought, because nobody, in the game, really goes very high, and certainly 26,000 ft is very very high for WW1 and probably not achievable at the time, I also realise that 15,000 ft isn't extreme, if higher than the 10,000 that  is generally quoted, I was just wondering what difference and at what altitude does having oxygen come into play for the German aircraft

[Todt_Von_Oben]

You know, I was going to mention that too; but forgot.  You're right.  Who goes up that high in this game?  I don't.  I don't even know if you can.  What's the highest you've ever taken one of these crates?

[J2_Trupobaw]

Blackout and g-loc are caused by oxygen and sugar starvation in the brain. Reduce the oxygen inflow and you'll need weaker g-force to suffer g-effects.

 

Veteran WW1 pilots were acclimatised to lack of oxygen.

Edited November 6, 2019 by J2_Trupobaw

[unreasonable]

2 hours ago, Todt_Von_Oben said:

You know, I was going to mention that too; but forgot.  You're right.  Who goes up that high in this game?  I don't.  I don't even know if you can.  What's the highest you've ever taken one of these crates?

 

In RoF about well over 4,000m.  In SP Career, when crossing the lines, only because I do not like Archie, which had an "attack distance" of 4,000m according to the files.  Main problem becomes engine overcooling, especially in winter.   If you want to climb higher it starts to take a very long time.