Doe anyone practice Air-to-Air offline in the P-47?

[chris455]

Always loved the Jug. It's great in-game for ground-pounding and bomber intercepts. But for me, it's been a humbling experience in any and all 1v1 fighter contests. I play single player primarily.

I'm reading a book about the 56th FG and have also read about the 348th in the Pacific. Those guys knew what they were doing. But in the Jug we have here in-game. I can barely hold my own against a 110. I am quite good against the AI with most other types. And no, I'm not new to flight simming either. 

This is my lack of skill with the Jug mind you- not blaming the flight model or overall fidelity of the P-47 at all. But the Jug- my favorite WWII warbird of all time- brings no joy. 

I've tried remaining high- really high- but after a very short period, the AI doesn't seem interested in coming after me. So I go gunning for them and loose all that high altitude advantage.

She wont turn- (surprise!) but if I were doing it right, I dont think I should need to do alot of turning. I've read ALOT about the P-47 and how it was used (effectively) and at this point I just want to continue learning and have some fun. In the Jug. But for me, it's just not happening.

What do some of the Jug jocks in the community have to say? Does anyone dogfight offline in it? And of course, thanks in advance for any and all constructive comments .

[[CPT]Crunch]

If you want AI to fight high, they need to start at the altitude you want them at, they're kind of retarded in that way.  Not much of a Jug fan as it stands now, maybe were it in a 43 or earlier scene. 

[Legioneod]

1 hour ago, chris455 said:

Always loved the Jug. It's great in-game for ground-pounding and bomber intercepts. But for me, it's been a humbling experience in any and all 1v1 fighter contests. I play single player primarily.

I'm reading a book about the 56th FG and have also read about the 348th in the Pacific. Those guys knew what they were doing. But in the Jug we have here in-game. I can barely hold my own against a 110. I am quite good against the AI with most other types. And no, I'm not new to flight simming either. 

This is my lack of skill with the Jug mind you- not blaming the flight model or overall fidelity of the P-47 at all. But the Jug- my favorite WWII warbird of all time- brings no joy. 

I've tried remaining high- really high- but after a very short period, the AI doesn't seem interested in coming after me. So I go gunning for them and loose all that high altitude advantage.

She wont turn- (surprise!) but if I were doing it right, I dont think I should need to do alot of turning. I've read ALOT about the P-47 and how it was used (effectively) and at this point I just want to continue learning and have some fun. In the Jug. But for me, it's just not happening.

What do some of the Jug jocks in the community have to say? Does anyone dogfight offline in it? And of course, thanks in advance for any and all constructive comments .

 

Do you fly online at all? I can fly with you and try and help out.

The Jug is also my favorite aircraft but in-game I rarely fly it due to some of the modeling "errors". It's not a bad aircraft per se but it is one of the hardest aircraft to get good at due to some of it's (and the games) limitations.

 

I rarely fly the Jug offline due to poor ai, I usually only fly offline when testing it or other aircraft.

I try not to mix it up too much in the Jug, it's slow to accelerate and can't turn very well without flaps (at least in-game).

 

My preferred method is to just stay high and try to find some unsuspecting enemy below me and bounce them then zoom away. If I find someone co alt I might try to engage but it's more of a risk. If someone is above me I have nearly zero chance of winning unless they make a mistake or are in similar or inferior aircraft. Usually I'll try to dive away and run if someone is above me because I have no real chance of getting the advantage due to my poor climb and acceleration.

If you're at a disadvantage best bet is to just dive and run, then once you're "safe" climb back up and look for other targets.

 

This is how I try to fly the Jug most of the time, it takes alot of patience and I'm still not very good at it. I made a few mistakes in the video but it's a decent example of how I prefer to fight in the Jug.

 

[chris455]

SO, was this online or ???????? Do you set the AI to orbit at a lower altitude than you? I have tried to do this, but I have a 4K display and even when the new enhanced visibility is invoked, it's super hard to spot the enemy.

What you did here is worthy stuff, and exactly the way the P-47 was flown-

Edited November 4, 2019 by chris455

[Legioneod]

25 minutes ago, chris455 said:

SO, was this online or ???????? Do you set the AI to orbit at a lower altitude than you? I have tried to do this, but I have a 4K display and even when the new enhanced visibility is invoked, it's super hard to spot the enemy.

What you did here is worthy stuff, and exactly the way the P-47 was flown-

It was online. Honestly I feel that's the best place to practice, fighting against ai helps learn the aircraft a little bit but it wont prepare you for fighting other players. I'm always looking for other players to fly with, my buddy and I can help you if needed.

 

For fighting against the ai I guess you could put them at a lower starting altitude so you can practice BnZ fighting and managing your energy.

 

Spotting is the hardest part about this game imo, it gets a little easier with practice but I usually don't spot players until they are within 5-6km of me. Flying high helps with spotting as well due to the sunlight shining off of aircraft below you.

Edited November 4, 2019 by Legioneod

[chris455]

Legioneod thank you for your help. I am going to keep trying. I may contact you at some point for online guidance, but I have to be honest, I do not typically care for online play, have had very mixed experiences with it. 

I will practice what you have shown in the video. I am confident I can find a solution to fighting in the Jug if I keep trying.

Thank you-

[Cavalier]

So I've been flying the P47 almost exclusively since its release, and I play both single-player and multiplayer equally. The 47 is very much an energy fighter and as you've already noticed, it doesn't turn well. This is more of a problem against the ai because they seem to love to turn and burn which makes it challenging to line up a shot. I've found the gyro sight to be extremely useful against ai due to their tendency to just turn. It is extremely important to always stay fast. Use energy tactics and out of plane maneuvers to prevent overshoots while keeping your energy up. once you lose energy in the 47, it is difficult to get it back. as a rule of thumb, I like to always stay above 200mph during combat (preferably >250mph). Avoid turn fighting unless you have the energy to spare and can finish the fight before getting slow. A common tactic I use against the ai in singleplayer is to use high and low yoyos to keep my speed up and cut into their turn, but this is easily countered by human players. Human players are a lot easier to BnZ because they are easy to bounce and they have a habit of losing track of you during the zooms, but you usually only get a couple of zooms before running low on energy at which point It's usually best to disengage while you still can.

 

I stubbornly believe the 47 is one of the best fighters in the game. If you're good to her, she'll be good to you. If you can learn to always keep your speed up, you'll find that it's surprisingly maneuverable. My last dirty secret for this bird are its flaps. If and only if you find yourself in the right situation, it may be a good idea to drop flaps (to help close your turn circle or if you must fight slow), but be sure to have the altitude to recover lost speed and never deploy them past 20 degrees (33%).

 

My conclusive tips to be successful in the 47... BnZ and/or energy fight, keep your speed up, and last and most importantly, believe in her.

 

If you have any specific questions about this bird, just lemme know. I'm happy to help.

[chris455]

This is great stuff you guys. Tomorrow when I get home from work I'm going back in. I really want to to succeed with this aircraft. Thank you all for the tips!

Couple of questions, Cavalier:

I know exactly how to set up the K-14 sight for use agianst individual aircraft, but I have found that most of the time, my pipper is below my cowl when making high-G maneuvers, rendering it useless. Not a problem for you?

Also, do you use water injection (ADI)?

Edited November 4, 2019 by chris455

[69TD_Hajo_Garlic]

Some people are saying it doesn’t turn well but have you tried it with like 20~30 flaps? Unless I’m sneaking up on someone too I take any shot I can.  

I also wouldn’t overload it with fuel and I assume you are proficient with the engine but boost, radiators, rpm, and mix are important in getting the most out of it.  Other than that I fight in it like the p40.

Edited November 5, 2019 by Hajo_Garlic

[Jaegermeister]

I flew the P-47 a lot when BoBP first came out and I never had any problem dogfighting with it. I fly entirely offline and have practiced against most German AC with it in scripted missions, campaigns and QMB. The only issues were with multiple ace EAC and my homies ignored my commands while the bad guys ganged up on me.

 

Use it as an energy fighter when you have altitude or speed advantage, but if a 110 or any fighter with more acceleration starts turning, drop about 20% flaps and you can outturn them. You can also lock the turbo, rpm and throttle together which although not ideal for top speed is excellent for turning combat. You can literally ignore engine parameters and just max out throttle with WEP for about 3 minutes.

 

The 109k and maybe the Dora are superior in most ways, but you can stay with them on equal terms and drop out when they are not looking and then come back to try and gain an advantage on the merge. The combat flaps may not be accurate, or maybe they are... but it certainly works and you should use it to your advantage.

 

I usually just use the standard gunsight and set convergence to 250 meters. When I get in close to convergence distance, the 8 .50s are pretty devastating. It does take getting close though. My motto has always been that you have to outfly them first, then pull the trigger.

 

 

Edited November 6, 2019 by Jaegermeister

[40plus]

I simply can't fly this thing. I tried and tried, no joy. Ground pounding works fine but anything against another bird and I'm hooped.

 

It's slow, heavy, bloated and handles like a brick. . . . . In my hands. I'm certain it's my fault because others kill me with it but if all the planes I suck with, I suck with this one the most.

[Legioneod]

30 minutes ago, pfrances said:

I simply can't fly this thing. I tried and tried, no joy. Ground pounding works fine but anything against another bird and I'm hooped.

 

It's slow, heavy, bloated and handles like a brick. . . . . In my hands. I'm certain it's my fault because others kill me with it but if all the planes I suck with, I suck with this one the most.

Fly higher, the P-47 is one of the fastest aircraft in the game but only at higher altitudes. Irl the P-47 was said to be very crisp and responsive at the controls but in game I feel it lags a bit with control input, flying at faster speeds help with this a little bit.

 

I hate to say it but flaps are a solid option when you find yourself low, it can turn with nearly everything but flaps slow it down alot.

Edited November 6, 2019 by Legioneod

[Cavalier]

On 11/3/2019 at 10:52 PM, chris455 said:

This is great stuff you guys. Tomorrow when I get home from work I'm going back in. I really want to to succeed with this aircraft. Thank you all for the tips!

Couple of questions, Cavalier:

I know exactly how to set up the K-14 sight for use agianst individual aircraft, but I have found that most of the time, my pipper is below my cowl when making high-G maneuvers, rendering it useless. Not a problem for you?

Also, do you use water injection (ADI)?

Regarding when your gyro sight is covered by the cowling; I use my headtracker to stand tall in the cockpit and get a slightly better angle (at least enough so I can see the pipper on the cowling) and then I just have to give it my best guess on the bandit's relation to the pipper.

I use water injection a lot. A good technique for combat power is to link the turbo and throttle and use water. I will usually fight at about 56 inches of mani and 2600 RPM. That'll keep me in "combat power" so I don't blow the engine so fast. Of course, don't be afraid to give her all she's got and push 64 inches 2700 RPM when you need it. You have 15 minutes worth of water so you have plenty to just leave water on the whole time you're in combat.

[40plus]

12 hours ago, Legioneod said:

Fly higher, the P-47 is one of the fastest aircraft in the game but only at higher altitudes. Irl the P-47 was said to be very crisp and responsive at the controls but in game I feel it lags a bit with control input, flying at faster speeds help with this a little bit.

 

I hate to say it but flaps are a solid option when you find yourself low, it can turn with nearly everything but flaps slow it down alot.

Yeh, I've read stuff like that before. Get high, get fast, use flaps. Problem is it climbs like a sloth. . . . At least with me in it.

 

Thanks for the tips. ?

[Mac_Messer]

The Jug is my favorite mudmover plane flown exlusively offline, though I can`t seem to find the way to enjoy it. For me it`s a case of old habits from "1946" gained through years of flying. In that game, patient and smooth flying gave me energy advantage after some vertical fighting. Once I ended up on the high side, everything else was easy. In this game however, I can`t climb, can`t maneuver without losing all my speed and alt. Pretty much the only chance I get is diving and zooming away and then maybe I get the upper hand but it happens rarely. That is the reason I await for BoBP release so I can try it out in the campaign, in historical context and that is arrive fast with a deadly 1st hit and extend away, repeat till alt is low. 

 

Same reason I don`t like much the P51 in GB, a very different plane from that which I flew in "1946".

Edited November 6, 2019 by Mac_Messer

[Legioneod]

5 hours ago, Mac_Messer said:

The Jug is my favorite mudmover plane flown exlusively offline, though I can`t seem to find the way to enjoy it. For me it`s a case of old habits from "1946" gained through years of flying. In that game, patient and smooth flying gave me energy advantage after some vertical fighting. Once I ended up on the high side, everything else was easy. In this game however, I can`t climb, can`t maneuver without losing all my speed and alt. Pretty much the only chance I get is diving and zooming away and then maybe I get the upper hand but it happens rarely. That is the reason I await for BoBP release so I can try it out in the campaign, in historical context and that is arrive fast with a deadly 1st hit and extend away, repeat till alt is low. 

 

Same reason I don`t like much the P51 in GB, a very different plane from that which I flew in "1946".

The P-47 does feel completely different from 46. In 46 I felt like I had more energy and could dive and zoom better than in GB. The P-51 feels fine to me, I came from fling the DCS P-51 so I knew about some of the quirks, overall the P-51 feels correct.

[DD_Arthur]