As of the next update.......

[J2_Trupobaw]

On 11/4/2019 at 2:54 AM, BraveSirRobin said:

 

You should really think out your passive aggressive BS a little more carefully.

 .


 

On 11/4/2019 at 3:58 AM, Motherbrain said:

 

But that aside, why bother? You have Rise of Flight. Plenty of content already there. So to me that leaves two reasons to do it.

 

Rise of Flight MP is kaputt unless certain exploitable bug is patched. Apparently, porting planes to FC was simpler (or more profitable) than restoring RoF to servicable form.

Once word got out that people were actually caught using that bug, RoF MP servers emptied on weekdays over a month. There is no coming back.

On 11/4/2019 at 5:21 PM, Motherbrain said:

 

My complaint is, we need more volumes of Flying Circus for it to matter. Or at least develop new planes that Rise of Flight doesn't have. Because at the moment, if WWI is your thing, there is no point in getting FC. Rise of Flight has more planes, more maps, a career mode, and is cheaper in a sense.

 

If you want more volumes, buy a new copy of FC every month and gift it to a friend. Some of them may even come to fly, but point is, it must sell well or we must inflate the sales.. 
(and see above about RoF).

Edited November 5, 2019 by J2_Trupobaw

[BraveSirRobin]

10 minutes ago, J2_Trupobaw said:

Once word got out that people were actually caught using that bug, RoF MP servers emptied on weekdays over a month.

 

 

That’s simply not true.  RoF MP was dead long before that.  

[J2_Trupobaw]

It was still possible to go on Wargrounds and find 15-20 oponents when Betrugerstaffeln were outed (about the level p activity we now have in FC...). Couple of months later, it was "5 people on WG, guys! Come all, there is game to be had!". Plus, the number of dedicated guys who quit in disgust or lost interest there and then. MP was dieing anyway, but that event brought it from vestigial (thanks, Al!)to nonexistent.

Edited November 5, 2019 by J2_Trupobaw

[Cynic_Al]

4 minutes ago, J2_Trupobaw said:

 MP was dieing anyway, but that event brought it from vestingal to nonexistent.

 

 I think he means 'vestigial'.

[BraveSirRobin]

8 minutes ago, J2_Trupobaw said:

It was still possible to go on Wargrounds and find 15-20 oponents when Betrugerstaffeln were outed (about the level p activity we now have in FC...). Couple of months later, it was "5 people on WG, guys!

 

Lol. 15-20 during European hours was crap.  It dropped down to 5-10 during US hours.  So, basically unplayable.  This was almost 2 years before the GTs and J30 put the final nail in the coffin.  The idea that MP “died” after that is pure uncut nonsense.

Edited November 5, 2019 by BraveSirRobin

[J2_Trupobaw]

Not in the J2 scorebook I am looking at :). 2016 was the last good year, in 2017 scores are halved but still there, from 2018 they fall to double digits. 

[JGr2/J5_Klugermann]

5 minutes ago, BraveSirRobin said:

 

Lol. 15-20 during European hours was crap.  It dropped down to 5-10 during US hours.  So, basically unplayable.  This was almost 2 years before the GTs and J30 put the final nail in the coffin.  The idea that MP “died” after that is pure uncut nonsense.

 

There was a drop off in early 2017 coinciding with you WG ban.

 

March '18 was the last time WG had over 1000 hrs FT

[BraveSirRobin]

1 hour ago, J5_Klugermann said:

 

There was a drop off in early 2017 coinciding with you WG ban.

 

March '18 was the last time WG had over 1000 hrs FT

 

It really died for US hours in late 2016.  I was down to less than 10 hours per month.  

1 hour ago, J2_Trupobaw said:

Not in the J2 scorebook I am looking at :). 2016 was the last good year, in 2017 scores are halved but still there, from 2018 they fall to double digits. 

 

I stopped flying in late 2016 because it was a waste of time.  My last few months I was on the server for about 10 hours.  IT.  WAS.  DEAD.

 

As bad as Wargrounds was, Syndicate was even worse.

 

That was more than a year prior to the GT/J30 fiasco.

Edited November 5, 2019 by BraveSirRobin

[the_dudeWG]

Another example of why a viable SP option is crucial for a flight sim. FC appears to be a long way from that at the moment. 

[HagarTheHorrible]

37 minutes ago, the_dudeWG said:

Another example of why a viable SP option is crucial for a flight sim. FC appears to be a long way from that at the moment. 

 

A persistent “online”  war would fit both bills.  Oh for the days of Falcon 4.0 !!!!

[BraveSirRobin]

56 minutes ago, the_dudeWG said:

Another example of why a viable SP option is crucial for a flight sim. FC appears to be a long way from that at the moment. 

 

SP doesn’t appear to be crucial to Warthunder.

[the_dudeWG]

We’re still talking about “flight sims” right? 

[Motherbrain]

37 minutes ago, BraveSirRobin said:

 

SP doesn’t appear to be crucial to Warthunder.

 

Warthunder is a terrible game. Just because it makes money doesn't mean its good. Now adding Single Player to Warthunder would alleviate a lot of its issues. But Galjin won't. Because that makes it hard to milk people of their money. Why play shitty, gridny, multiplayer modes that play off your gambling impulses when you can play PvE historical missions and just enjoy the game without being somebody else's point pinata in their onw quest to unlock a new shiny?

 

People complain about Warthunder for various reasons. Balance. Gameplay. Constantly adding premiums. Copy-paste content. But the truth is Warthunder is working exactly as Galjin intends. Gets them constantly paying for premium to overcome miserable grinds. And constantly adding new shiny's for them to grind for. Warthunder works exactly as the developers intend. 

 

And its a miserable, miserable experience you cant even begin to compare to Il-2. 

Edited November 5, 2019 by Motherbrain

[BraveSirRobin]

Just now, the_dudeWG said:

We’re still talking about “flight sims” right? 

 

Warthunder is a flight sim.  Do people playing Warthunder pretend to fly planes and shoot each other down?  Flight sim.

Just now, Motherbrain said:

 

Warthunder is a terrible game.

 

That is completely irrelevant.  It’s a flight sim.

[Motherbrain]

2 minutes ago, BraveSirRobin said:

 

Warthunder is a flight sim.  Do people playing Warthunder pretend to fly planes and shoot each other down?  Flight sim.

 

I partially agree with you. One of the criticisms I have with the Il-2 series is its too stringent with realism. Any aircraft that is even remotely hard to get data for is off the table as a result.

 

Warthunder has planes we can only dream of having. Do-335s, Tupolev SBs, tons of Japanese and Italians planes. Are they accurate? Maybe. Maybe not. But who cares? Its fun to see them.

 

That's pretty much exactly why I hate Warthunder so much and why its so tragic to me.

 

Take Il-2 game play. Pilot career mode. Quick mission generator. Missions. Single player aspects. And throw in Warthunders vehicles and lower level simulation. I'd be happier then a pig in shit.

[76SQN-FatherTed]

The date of the death of RoF MP depends on whether you were/are pro-patch or not.  Numbers were dwindling pre-patch ("Camel FM is killing RoF MP"), rose briefly post-patch ("Yay! Everyone likes new Camel!") and then dwindled once more ("Patch killed RoF MP!").

 

[the_dudeWG]

1 minute ago, BraveSirRobin said:

 

Warthunder is a flight sim.  Do people playing Warthunder pretend to fly planes and shoot each other down?  Flight sim.

I would call it game that doesn’t require much prior knowledge about flight controls nor complex or expensive gear, hence players are able to go online and be competitive much easier than it would be for IL2 or FC. Just my opinion ...

[Zooropa_Fly]

13 minutes ago, =CfC=FatherTed said:

The date of the death of RoF MP depends on whether you were/are pro-patch or not.  Numbers were dwindling pre-patch ("Camel FM is killing RoF MP"), rose briefly post-patch ("Yay! Everyone likes new Camel!") and then dwindled once more ("Patch killed RoF MP!").

 

 

Aside from a couple of hacks with an axe, it's been a slow death of 1000 cuts.

[BraveSirRobin]

40 minutes ago, the_dudeWG said:

I would call it game that doesn’t require much prior knowledge about flight controls nor complex or expensive gear, hence players are able to go online and be competitive much easier than it would be for IL2 or FC. Just my opinion ...

 

Still a flight sim.

[US63_SpadLivesMatter]

War Thunder actually has single player campaigns.

[BraveSirRobin]

2 minutes ago, J28w-Broccoli said:

War Thunder actually has single player campaigns.

 

That doesn’t sound very “crucial”.

[Motherbrain]

22 minutes ago, BraveSirRobin said:

 

That doesn’t sound very “crucial”.

 

"Announcement: single player to be permanently removed from Il-2. Now only skill, competition, and a good, constant internet connection determine weather or not you enjoy our already niche flight sim. Don't like it? Get gud. You have no choice now"

 

Me and my money: 

Edited November 6, 2019 by Motherbrain

[the_dudeWG]

17 minutes ago, Motherbrain said:

Now only skill, competition, and a good, constant internet connection determine weather or not you enjoy our already niche flight sim.

Not to mention the 30+ inch 4K monitors and top of the line flight gear you and your buddies on Teamspeak are using to pound on solo fliers that are just looking for a fun WWI VR combat experience. 

[Cynic_Al]

3 hours ago, Zooropa_Fly said:

 

Aside from a couple of hacks with an axe, it's been a slow death of 1000 cuts.

 

I'm sure your new server will save the day.

[HiIIBiIIy]

O-Boy, this thread has gone to hell!

Time to clean or lock.

[Garven]

16 hours ago, the_dudeWG said:

Not to mention the 30+ inch 4K monitors and top of the line flight gear

Actually my experience your better off with a run of the mill 1080p 27in monitor (I got mine for $99 on ebay).  Also the Thrustmaster T16000m FCS set is far from top of the line, but is still a very good set up for the money and that is a what I use.  This idea one needs to spend a boat load of money on gear to be competitive needs to die.

[SeaW0lf]

You can also build a set of DIY pedals that can beat most of the pedals in the market, rivaling just the hall sensor ones. If you pair it with a cheap Logitech 3D stick and free head tracking device, you are good to go. In fact a good DIY pedal (arduinos are very cheap) would put most players ahead of the competition.

[Cynic_Al]

20 hours ago, the_dudeWG said:

Another example of why a viable SP option is crucial for a flight sim. FC appears to be a long way from that at the moment. 

 

With time I'm quite sure that will change. Given that the devs appear to think they're doing us a favour by allowing us to create our own multiplayer missions, I think it's safe to say they attach relative importance to single-player gameplay,  so nothing to worry about there.

[J2_Trupobaw]

I'm pretty sure you can build good rudder bar out of racing wheel by purely mechanical modifications... In fact, we could be building FFB bars out of them if only BoX supported FBB in yaw axis :(.

 

SP campaign for Warthunder was called Il-2 Sturmovik - Wings of Prey - MMO version was built on top of it. It's good as "my first flight sim" because at least enviroment pretends to be historical 

Edited November 6, 2019 by J2_Trupobaw

[mpdugas]

Maybe it would be simpler and cheaper to port RoF to DX11 and the IL-2 graphics engine, then clean up any serious bugs left from the original RoF.

The aircraft models could be tidied up over time, but at least a better graphics experience and VR would be immediately available.

[BraveSirRobin]

3 minutes ago, mpdugas said:

Maybe it would be simpler and cheaper to port RoF to DX11 and the IL-2 graphics engine, then clean up any serious bugs left from the original RoF.

The aircraft models could be tidied up over time, but at least a better graphics experience and VR would be immediately available.

 

I don’t think the plans for RoF are open for debate.  They’re porting it to FC.  The End.

[the_dudeWG]

3 hours ago, US93_Furlow said:

Actually my experience your better off with a run of the mill 1080p 27in monitor (I got mine for $99 on ebay).

Compared to what experience? The huge 4K monitor you got rid of for some reason so you could downgrade to a $99 one?! It’s all about spotting. If you or your squad mates see the other guy first because he’s flying solo and perhaps using VR, he likely doesn’t stand a chance. It’s not much fun, and I’ve been on both sides. S!

[HagarTheHorrible]

19 minutes ago, the_dudeWG said:

because he’s flying solo and perhaps using VR, he likely doesn’t stand a chance. It’s not much fun, and I’ve been on both sides. S!

 

Oh, I don't know, it's not that bad, limiting perhaps, but I wouldn't say devoid of fun, I try and give as good as I get and just accept it as it is.  My main problem is having to get too close, so that I can I.D other aircraft, by which time it's often too late to run away, sorry, I mean perform a tactical retreat.  I love the SE5a though, not to fly, but because I can tell what it is from much further out, when viewed from the side.

[Panzerlang]

On 11/4/2019 at 11:47 AM, ZachariasX said:

 

 

RoF had less content and much lesser planes than FC1 for a long time. Yet it progressed.

That was kind of a one-time deal. FC is an attempt to clone that entire gig, one that has clearly failed (for a big variety of reasons). 

Just my opinion.

On 11/4/2019 at 1:22 PM, PatrickAWlson said:

 

Would be nice if it was not, but I'm afraid that it is a (mostly) fantasy.  It is also not true that FC is an all new product from the ground up.  Of course they are taking bits from RoF.  They would be stupid not to.  But FC is the cost of the port.  It is months of work from a full team and not days from an individual.  The appeal will not be the the same as BoBP so the cost per unit has to compensate. 

 

Unfortunately, the choice is fairly straight forward: support the only WWI sim in development or stick with RoF and let FC die on the vine.  When you are dealing with small developers like 1C,  if you like the product and want to see it continue you have to put your money where your fantasies are.  A few years ago I gave Warhorse $50 for something that did not even exist, hoping that it would come into being.  That was $50 very, very well spent as I absolutely love Kingdom Come Deliverance.  I purchased an age of sail thing as well ... suppose I got my money's worth but not really a success for me.  There are no guarantees.

 

With 1C we know their track record.  It is always everyone's right to choose not to buy a product.  But if too many people make that choice the product ceases to exist.  

All they needed to do was implement VR into RoF. We know it can be done, shed-loads of old games have had VR retroactively implemented. They could have done it for a tiny fraction of the price of working on FC, charged an appropriate price and probably made more money from that than they have with FC (my speculative opinion).

What we've ended up with is an assassinated RoF and FC dying on the vine. In my opinion.

[mpdugas]

2 hours ago, BraveSirRobin said:

 

I don’t think the plans for RoF are open for debate.  They’re porting it to FC.  The End.

 

The following all falls under the category of wishful thinking, not a debate or demand, about changes I'd be willing to pay for:

 

"They’re porting it to FC."

 

Well, maybe.  "If Flying Circus proves popular we can eventually fire up the Great War assembly line and break out the canvas and timber once again to make some new crates!"

 

The only thing clear is that the transformation of RoF assets to GBS will happen if, and only if, sales of FC1 warrant; so that decision is not yet final.  I mean, that's what they've said so far.  Unless, of course, I have missed a very important announcement somewhere saying otherwise.

1C/777 have not addressed the future of RoF should FC1 not generate enough interest in continued development.  Nor should they have.

They've only made clear that the future of FC2, etc. depend on sales of FC1.  If I'm wrong about that, if something has been said otherwise, then please be kind enough to link that statement.

 

However, if FC1 sales don't pan out, and thus FC2, etc. are not forthcoming, then there is nothing said, anywhere, that precludes refreshing the existing RoF.  It is not an either/or situation as you frame it.  I have hope, that's all.

 

RoF's a pretty valuable commodity, and lots of folks have invested money in it.  I know that I have, and I continue to enjoy it.

 

Nonetheless, I, for one, would be more than willing to pay for an update to RoF, as it stands today, that would permit VR use, for example.  Transforming RoF to DX11 should be far cheaper than porting all of it to GBS, so it could be a less expensive alternative to FC2, etc.

 

I've said before, I'm buying all the content that 1C/777 produce with the hope that GBS and the producers continue to prosper.  I like this GBS sim.  I like RoF.  I like VR very much.

 

Fin.

[BraveSirRobin]

1 minute ago, mpdugas said:

 

Nonetheless, I, for one, would be more than willing to pay for an update to RoF, as it stands today, that would permit VR use, for example.  Transforming RoF to DX11 should be far cheaper than porting all of it to GBS, so it could be a less expensive alternative to FC2, etc.

 

Fin.

 

Buy the rights to the RoF code and you can do whatever you want with it.  But saying “I’ll pay for doing the thing thatI know there is no chance that they’ll ever do!” is grandstanding silliness.

 

[ZachariasX]

7 minutes ago, J3Hetzer said:

That was kind of a one-time deal.

What one time deal? Buy a lesser game than FC1 for the same price? That deal?

 

10 minutes ago, J3Hetzer said:

FC is an attempt to clone that entire gig, one that has clearly failed (for a big variety of reasons).

You get what you pay for when buying FC1. Where‘s the failure in that? Imagine Microsoft doing so...

 

I just don‘t understand why people hate FC so much. RoF is sold, money spent. You want more, there‘s two ways doing this. Either you bring more customers (badmouthing just because there might be old gripes doesn‘t help here) OR you, along with the rest of the existing player base, buy the whole thing all over again to finance the effort.

 

I‘m simply amazed by the entitlement I‘m reading in some comments here. There‘s only two things you‘re entitled to: death and taxes. The whole rest you have to work or pay for.

 

FC1, regarding flight and plane physics, is by all means way above anything published as WW1 air combat sims. If you want more content and functionality, buy it. And buy it now. Not later. Not for rebate. You want to give that money to Jason for paying developers. You can also gift FC1 on top of that. You may get then eventually your 1914 to 1918 career. In the Turkish Air Force. Or whatever. But buying it, you must.

 

Yeah, how cool would it be to have a Falcon4 style campaign... so cool. You know, the way I dream of it is... it actually working, not that full year of blue screens when it came out. Great idea wishing for functionality that only started to work as desired once it killed its publisher. And this during the heydays of flight sims. And not niche days where residual flightsim aficionados and aficionados of flightsims are mainly bickering at each other when not jointly asking for rebates.

 

 

[US63_SpadLivesMatter]

You can do poor man's VR with Rise of Flight by attaching your head tracker to your headset, then using Steam's VR Desktop and running RoF in borderless window mode.

[ZachariasX]

12 minutes ago, mpdugas said:

Transforming RoF to DX11 should be far cheaper than porting all of it to GBS, so it could be a less expensive alternative to FC2, etc.

Sweet Jesus, if only Jason had thought of that. Or wait... maybe be has?

[Mitthrawnuruodo]

14 minutes ago, mpdugas said:

Transforming RoF to DX11 should be far cheaper than porting all of it to GBS, so it could be a less expensive alternative to FC2, etc.

 

This makes zero sense. By porting ROF aircraft to GB, they're avoiding the costs of developing another upgraded engine for VR, 64bit, DX11, etc. Nobody in their right mind would develop two similar engines in parallel instead of simply updating the old art for the new technology.

Edited November 6, 2019 by Mitthrawnuruodo