Tank crew update today?

[andres43]

I don't want to seem impatient ... but I'm impatient! ? DeV's announced the launch of the highly anticipated -Clash at Prokhorovka- campaign for october fall ... today will be the inevitable day...?

 

( Photo source: https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/ ) 
 

[FTC_Riksen]

Hope so too

[Oyster_KAI]

Guys, 2 weeks or 2 hours, choose one?

[1.JaVA_KEBEN]

Nope , no update and no aiming fix ???

Edited October 31, 2019 by 1.JaVA_KEBEN

[Thad]

Tomorrow. ?

[Buggeredsteel823]

25 minutes ago, 1.JaVA_KEBEN said:

Nope , no update and no aiming fix ???

What wrong with aiming it the tanks I haven't got any problems with the sights. 

[SCG_judgedeath3]

25 minutes ago, Buggeredsteel823 said:

What wrong with aiming it the tanks I haven't got any problems with the sights. 

I think its due to we had a different system earlier that was easier to use and set up than the one we have now is my guess.

[1.JaVA_KEBEN]

46 minutes ago, Buggeredsteel823 said:

What wrong with aiming it the tanks I haven't got any problems with the sights. 

Aiming system is not working well ,the  tower has his own life .

Not playable in a normal way , a lot of players have this problem .

 

Aiming systen before the last update whas almost perfect ,now its a pain in the ass .

 

Whe are hoping for a update  , to fix this  terrible system 

 

Edited October 31, 2019 by 1.JaVA_KEBEN

[Mitthrawnuruodo]

42 minutes ago, 1.JaVA_KEBEN said:

Aiming system is not working well ,the  tower has his own life .

Not playable in a normal way , a lot of players have this problem .

 

The system is not ideal, but it works. It's certainly far from unplayable. You just have to slow down and be a bit more careful.

 

If you avoid excessive mouse movements, there is no unpredictable behaviour.

Edited October 31, 2019 by Mitthrawnuruodo

[Buggeredsteel823]

Are talking  about  when have your mouse too far left or right and turret get locked in that direction I so thats a pain in the ass 

[1.JaVA_KEBEN]

1 hour ago, Buggeredsteel823 said:

Are talking  about  when have your mouse too far left or right and turret get locked in that direction I so thats a pain in the ass 

 

 

Yep , no reaction of a wrong reaction from the tower … a lot of players don't like it … thats why there are not of players  online in TC 

1 hour ago, Mitthrawnuruodo said:

 

The system is not ideal, but it works. It's certainly far from unplayable. You just have to slow down and be a bit more careful.

 

If you avoid excessive mouse movements, there is no unpredictable behaviour.

 

Please stop Mittahrawnuruodo  , in fast actions its really unpayable .( not far from unplayable ) ....its really unplayable .

 

It's to slow and unpredictable ..like a drunk gunner .

 

Me ..and a lot of player are waiting for a fix … and that takes a long time ?????

[Buggeredsteel823]

Can you turn the mouse senitiviey down.

[Yogiflight]

There are two tricks to make it 'playable', turning down the mouse sensitivity and only turning the turret, when zoomed in about two-thirds. This way the turret doesn't turn that fast and you'll see what the gunner did see IRL. I mentioned it before, for german tanks the base of the turned around triangle has to touch the top of the screen. Maybe someone can post pics of the russian and the Sherman gunsight view, so one could see how it should look.

[Buggeredsteel823]

I found that if turn mouse senitiviey down to 2 it makes the turret alot easyer to use and doesn't vear off as much if at all.

[JG1_Wittmann]

Why should anyone have to change their mouse sensitivity  to  make the game functional ?   That  is a load  of   _______ ,  you put in what you want.    When  I move my mouse, on my computer  to the edge of my screen,  left or right,   now matter how much more I move the mouse,  it always seems to stop at the edge of my screen.   I can always still see the edge  of my pointer.   I can try to beat hell,  moving and moving my mouse like a mad man,  and there it sits,  at the edge of my monitor.   I would imagine, that if  the  mouse still had mechanical rollers like they used to, not matter how fast of a motor  I hooked  up to those rollers ,    it would still not go past the edge of my monitor.  Why is this so difficult to implement in the gun scope ?  Mouse stops, gun stops.   Is this thinking counter-intuitive ?  If so, please  help me to understand the difficulty in making this work.  If I stop my control, what I am trying to control stops. If the Tiger took 1 minute to rotate 360 degrees,  that =  exactly  1 RPM.  So the hunting  on this turret,  would be very minimal.  Say a tank  does 360 degrees  in  15 seconds,  that is 4 RPM,  again,  not what you would call a fast mover and shaker,  and probably not much hunting/overshoot.

 

Now picture this if you will,  humor me please !    I am the new owner  of a IL2/BOx   game.   I go in and set up my controls to fly my plane  with my joystick.  I have my joystick calibrated and I believe everything is good.    I get in game, start my engine and begin to roll, taking off.  I start to perform a lazy right turn after gaining some altitude.  I move my joystick to the right,  and my plane rolls almost all the way over.  I try to roll left and my plane continues to roll right.  I  centered my stick, and pushed it left, yet my plane continued rolling right.  Eventually  my plane begins to stall,  luckily, I am able to roll upright and seem to have regained control.  I am low on speed and near stall so I nose down just a bit...........   and it will not stop moving my elevator  and I am now in a steep dive from 400m.  I pull up on the stick,  and I am still in a steep dive that is increasing.  My plane crashes.  Now imagine  if a large portion of your customer base were experiencing just this scenario.   Also imagine  if a large part of those people, did not feel that they should have to use 3rd party software to get functionality out of their ability to fly with their joystick.   What kind of reviews would this game get ?  Would it attract larger and larger #'s  of players?  Would players think,  hey great,  as long as I do X to my mouse,  or use X software, then I can actually  fly my plane or aim the gun in a tank, and shoot and not have wonky crap like continuing to move,  not moving, etc etc happen.  If I move left, turret moves left.  If I move right, turret moves right.   If I stop  my mouse/joystick/etc, the turret stops.  Wow,   this is really cool,  I have never played a game that actually gave me Direct  control over an item, in a predictable way !    Wow,  now if only  I could get rid of this  mouse control, and had customizable axis control,  like I do on every single other game I have played in the last X amount of years,  then I would tell all my buddies about it and tell them they had to try it

 

The reality is that this is not a very hard problem to solve.   It can only be a few things :

1) Pure Laziness

2) Complete Disregard for a large portion of the customers wishes.

3) Lack of resources to make changes that seems like a simple fix.

 

Now I'm not sure what the problem is.  I would seriously doubt that it is # 1 or # 2.   I would lean toward it being # 3.   For all we know, they have this other contractor doing the tank models,  maybe the other work for Tank Crew, in the BOX realm, is simply a filler job.  For instance,  "  Hey,  if all of you can't keep busy,  then get some of the punch list items  done for tank crew...... "   People immediately start typing, talking on phone,  talking in small groups, etc etc, to look busy so they don't have to work on the "orphan" project.

 

I think,  and if you disagree feel free to reply,  that there was nothing wrong with the aiming system  on most, not all, of the tanks in the game before we got this garbage aiming system.  The T-34 drivers  did not like the crappy, erratic  movement of their periscope.   So for some reason,  the developers of the game, decided  to screw up the aiming of  any tanks that didn't already have erratic gun behavior.   Now can anyone explain  how this is more realistic ?   If I stop moving my " Mouse "  in a direction, my turret or gun should immediately, or with slight deviation for sim accuracy, move a further small amount.  I honestly wonder if any of the developers working on the project have in person  seen  how an item is moved by a hydraulic pump/motor control,  or an electric motor control.    Not  read about in a book,  but actually seen.  When the hydraulic valve closes,  the item moving stops.  Now depending on the weight of the item, and the speed it is moving,it may "hunt"  .   Now if the developers  have not heard of the term hunting  in reference to gun turret movement, they need to  study up.

 

Again,  in my opinion,  anyone that pays for this game should not have to do anything  to get basic functionality out of the game.  They should not have to screw with mouse sensitivity,  use third party software,  etc  to get basic play-ability out of the game  as far as the turret and gun go.   Now if they want to change mouse sensitivity,  use 3rd party software, etc,  for their own  fine tuning purposes, that that should be their choice for a perceived edge, not a requirement to get some decent  play-ability out of their purchase that they consider acceptable.

 

There are a lot of great aspects about the BOx series,  this gun aiming system Regression  is not one of them.  If any of the developers  read this,  please, please,   print out a large sign  to hang in a main common area of the office, if there is one.   On this sign say  "  If it ain't broke, don't fix it "  then let the person/persons that changed the gun aiming system to  refer to this sign,   and fix what they broke !

[Thad]

Why don't you share what you really think?

 

After further consideration... please don't. ?

[JG1_Wittmann]

 

Is there a group of Beta Testers for these  updates ?

Edited November 4, 2019 by JG1_Wittmann
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[1.JaVA_KEBEN]

If it ain't broke, don't fix it   ...thats what i tell all my students 

[JG1_Wittmann]

 

On 10/31/2019 at 1:53 PM, Mitthrawnuruodo said:

The system is not ideal, but it works. It's certainly far from unplayable. You just have to slow down and be a bit more careful.

 

If you avoid excessive mouse movements, there is no unpredictable behaviour.

 

If  this exact thing was happening  to Aircraft flying controls,  that worked fine, for all players,   then received a horrible update that made it  unplayable  for say half, which is about what the poll shows,    how long does anyone here think it would take  them to issue a patch and fix this ?    Would a update that broke flying controls ever even make it to a release  or would testing catch the issue ?  

 

Mittahrawnuruodo ,   how it works may be playable and work for you, but for a lot here,   say most,  it does not.  In what reality should my turret move  like this :

1) I roll the mouse to the right

2)Gun begins to move right.

3)I stop the mouse,  the gun continues moving right  until the tgt is totally out of my sight, whether or not I am zoomed in all the way.   Refer to my above post,  If I went to roll right in an AC  and my plane rolled past where I wanted, and I could not stop that roll/dive etc  how long would the developers allow that to be broken like that ?  Would it even go a single day before it was fixed,   or reverted back to the last update ?

4) Sometimes I moves mouse to the right,  gun begins going right, then stops  and moves left.  Sometimes it stops, sometimes not.  What I, and many others have going on in game is not  Predictable Control.   So besides the fact that is totally unrealistic,  and has no place in any game that calls itself an accurate sim,  that makes it unplayable.   If I knew how much mouse would give me X unrealistic coast, that would be somewhat playable,  if not laughable as far as realism goes.

 

What many of us have  in game at the moment, is a joke.  It represents a total lack of developer interest  in Tank Crew, other than it being some   side show, busy work project etc.  If you changed how your roll, pitch  etc worked in an aircraft, and 50% of your players told you it  was horrible and unplayable,  would you let it slide for a month,  or  the bad word  would probably damage your ability to market  the sim .  It is irrelevant how many  programmers are assigned to Tank Crew.  When you have a colossal screw up so bad,  that half of your player base on the forum you host tells you it's not playable,   you pull in people from other areas and you restore the functionality, at least back to where it worked  for the vast majority.  You do whatever you need to to fix it ASAP,  unless of course,  you really could care less whether it works or not.  If this happened  to  Flight Controls in BOx, I doubt it would not be fixed  in 1 day,  and I seriously doubt it would have ever been allowed to be released with such a flaw to begin with !

[Mitthrawnuruodo]

I agree that the system is unintuitive and that it could be improved, but it is entirely predictable. It’s not broken in the sense that the turret movement is uncontrollable or random. See my older post.

 

I was initially uncomfortable with the new system, but I was able to get used to it after a few minutes even with the default settings.

 

it’s really not that difficult once you realize that the cursor travels 360 degrees around you and the turret tries to reach the cursor along the shortest path. In that respect it’s quite similar to mouse control for aircraft.

Edited November 4, 2019 by Mitthrawnuruodo

[JG1_Wittmann]

The problem with your post,   and repost,    is it is that way for you.   I understand the function.   Apply this to AC  flight controls,  and how long do   half of the flyers  have to wait  for a fix ?  I don't need to realize this, or manipulate anything, etc.  .  If I roll my plane to the right,  and then I hold the stick,  it stops rolling.  

The tank turret used to do the same.  Now it does not.

 

If you are trying  to make  a " Simulation "   then you shoot for at least some rudimentary amount of accuracy.   This has none.  If I am operating  a Hydraulic Log Splitter,  with a manual Hydraulic Valve, and I move that valve lever left, or right, the cylinder, goes left or right at a constant speed, because I am not changing the speed of the Pump motor, I am simply re-directing the flow of oil.     If I release the Valve lever, it either springs to center, or I move it to center  the cylinder stops moving ,    Period,  that is reality and the speed is probably real close to a TIger Turret, real slow  1 RPM.

 

Now If  I were to  put an electrically activated valve instead of a manual one,  the only difference is that the open/close action would occur much faster.   The speed of the driven object would not change at all,  it would just start moving "sooner"  Once moving,  there is no change in speed.  It would not move a small amount, and then go faster.  Once it had enough torque to move it would be at a constant speed,   unless the pump were to speed up or slow down.

 

If I was to decide to design a control system  that moved my log-splitter cylinder/bit  with a mouse,  I would not make it so that the person operating it had no clue but had to guess how far  they had gone.   I would not ask for some half-a@@  visual aid,  I would want  clear and concise control.  Therefore, if asked, I would tell this designer to scrap the mouse control  and give me more direct control,  either via  JOYSTICK ,    or KeyPad,  or whatever device  I wanted to use.  If I pressed a Key to move turret to the left, then it would move left.  If I let go of the key, it would stop, etc, etc.  Now this is not  groundbreaking, simulation rocket science.  There have been games developed going back to the late 80's  that used key board input for control.   You could  actually  fly some sims with a keyboard.  Joysticks could be used by those that had them, and they were lucky to have 2 buttons. I would rather have my turret controlled by Keys,  That I select, than a mouse.   I do not understand for one second why we have not heard a peep from the developers on this.  A hint would be nice Now If I wanted fine movement simulated then That would also have to be added  in more precise, accurate steps at a slower rate.  Yes, this would slow down because it was not driven by hyd/elec motor, but a hand-wheel  that the speed could be varied by the operator.

 

"similar to mouse control for aircraft "  How many fly with a mouse ?   How many MP servers  specify you use a mouse ?   How many specify you use a joystick ?

 

The reality is, that this is the first "simulation" game that I have bought in many years where I did not have the ability  to set up how I wanted to control  tank turrets, gun el,  etc etc.   Plz  ask SSI  if you can borrow there code  from the late 90's  on a game called Panzer Commander,   that allowed a player  to map  a joystick axis  to control things,   or a keyboard,  or mouse  etc.  If it can't be figured out, maybe this could solve the  coding block , that is preventing this from becoming a reality ?

Edited November 4, 2019 by JG1_Wittmann

[Buggeredsteel823]

If someone isn't willing to do something on there end then one should complain and i didnt say you had to change the mouse sensitivity i was just giving a simple option to help someone to get less salty with  the game.

[OrLoK]

constructive feedback is useful. Ranty complaints are not

 

Lets stay away from the tropes that the devs are lazy or not bothered as some seem to imply. (not pointing at anyone in particular)

 

They're working their socks off and remember, what seems easy to you or I to *fix* is often far more difficult in reality. 

 

keep letting them know what bugs you but keep it constructive and keep it reasonable

[JG1_Wittmann]

4 hours ago, JG1_Wittmann said:

he reality is that this is not a very hard problem to solve.   It can only be a few things :

1) Pure Laziness

2) Complete Disregard for a large portion of the customers wishes.

3) Lack of resources to make changes that seems like a simple fix.

 

If you take care to read on in my previous post, you will clearly see that I say I doubt  that 1 or 2 are the reason for no action.  I thought it obvious that I was  making an attempt at sarcasm/humor.    I will say that it is somewhat disappointing  that  No  post, that I have seen from developers,  mentions a fix  to the horrible  gun aiming screw up that occurred 2 updates ago.   I think I am correct in thinking that a lot of us were hopeful that  it was going to be immediately fixed in the update that followed soon from the one that "broke"  the turret/gun control

 

If I missed  the developer note on the gun/turret fix   forthcoming,   then I apologize.  If anyone on the board  has seen this post,  can you please post the link here so I can read it.

 

For myself, I work on programming in an industrial setting.  If you change a program, to improve it,  and it does not work like you wanted  you don't just  leave it  and work on a resolution while the system is "broken"  or malfunctioning.

 You revert back to the last program that worked,  you don't just leave your changes  that did not work in there until you can fix them.

 

When you have a player poll  that has 57%   thinking the new gun/turret aiming system  is  no good, to put it nicely,  Why would  there not be any developer response ?

 

Do the developers/programmers working on Tank Crew read some of the posts on this forum ?    I just now  bumped that Poll  thread  from Lofte , that was posted a month ago  October 4, 2019 .    This is not  a rare  occurrence,  like hitting invisible objects  and having to repair engine, transmission, tracks, etc.  This isn't  game exploits/damage model flaws like the original T-34  unable to be damaged after an engine shot, or the Tiger losing gun to damage  from the T-34 using HE  bug, or basically losing it's gun if the wind blows hard.    This goes to the core of basic game functions and control.....  which were adversely affected according to 57% of the players answering the poll.

 

I, along with many others  here,  find that the turret control  is all messed up and needs to be fixed.   It wasn't broken for all tanks  before the update,   but now it seems to be.   I am going to assume, ( but I can't testify to this because I never played it  )  that the Sherman  turret/gun control  has been screwed  up from the get go.

 

I see in OrLok 's  post about being constructive.  I think a lot of comments have been made since the update  that screwed up the turret/guns  was released.  To my knowledge, and it may be my own ignorance, I have not seen a single reply from a DEV, that the issue is being looked at.   Why don't we just go back in time  to 2 updates ago,   unrelease the TC  additions, and let us have turret/gun control.   I have already shown, in videos, that the JPIV/L70  ( along with all  75mm german AFV guns ) are totally  non-effective when deployed under the control of AI .  I will refrain from again using the term Worthless, even though that categorization was not incorrect in the way I meant it.   Now there may have been issues with other AFV's  and their turret/gun aiming.  I can't speak to the allies because I have rarely tried them out.  Just like the old Windows restore point,  can't we UN-RING this bell on these last updates, or at least the portion that affected Tank Crew so badly ?

Edited November 4, 2019 by JG1_Wittmann
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[vlad_8011]

There is issue with second mission (counterattack) for soviets - mission is never ending. I killed everyoone on the map and yet, mission is not ending. Last checkpoint is in the village - i'm standing there next to the tiger wrecks and nothing. Tried 6 times. Pretty disapointed.

Edited December 7, 2019 by vlad_8011

[wombatBritishBulldogs]

From memory you have to drive over the icon But you have to flip icons on  ! I had to repeat it once  the second time i just drove around further  South i think to icon on map to get a complete ! But yes it's a long drive ! is that the one where you have to kill the Tigers !