Mirrors and the Luftwaffe

[Sublime]

Sooo.. was the Luftwaffe really superstitious and worried about broken mirrors?  Did they envision fighter pilots being *that* ugly? Defeatist to even suggest that the Luftwaffe would ever need a mirror because no one will ever be pursuing them?

Seriously why did they never use mirrors?

Edited October 29, 2019 by Sublime

[R6ckStar]

7 minutes ago, Sublime said:

Sooo.. was the Luftwaffe really superstitious and worried about broken mirrors?  Did they envision fighter pilots being *that* ugly? Defeatist to even suggest that the Luftwaffe would ever need a mirror because no one will ever be pursuing them?

Seriously why did they never use mirrors?

I believe the Duck has a mirror

[Goffik]

27 minutes ago, Sublime said:

Did they envision fighter pilots being *that* ugly?

 

Have you seen the German profile photos in BoX career mode?

 

*shudders* 

 

Seriously though, I'm curious myself. Seems such a cheap, easy mod for everyone not to have used on every fighter.

Edited October 29, 2019 by Goffik

[Mauf]

Simple, they're all vampires and thus afraid of mirrors:

 

 

 

[Krisu]

Probably because of rampant narcissism through the ranks; our tactics are so good we don't need mirrors to watch our backs : >

[MikhaVT]

Having worked in an industry that makes mirrors, and personally having thrown a box of >300 mirrors into a trash compactor, i can assure you that breaking mirrors provides no bad luck, and evidence shows that it is more likely to increase your luck. (In my case i won my HOTAS a month after having broken said mirrors)

[PatrickAWlson]

10 minutes ago, Krisu said:

Probably because of rampant narcissism through the ranks; our tactics are so good we don't need mirrors to watch our backs : >

 

or because of rampant narcissism through the ranks all of the mirrors were already in use.

 

Hans dahlink, do I not look lovely today?

Edited October 29, 2019 by PatrickAWlson

[Sublime]

5 minutes ago, Kataphrakt said:

Having worked in an industry that makes mirrors, and personally having thrown a box of >300 mirrors into a trash compactor, i can assure you that breaking mirrors provides no bad luck, and evidence shows that it is more likely to increase your luck. (In my case i won my HOTAS a month after having broken said mirrors)

I followed your advice!

However my girlfriends screaming at me and has tried breaking my trackir 3 times theres no fu*king hotas at the end of this tunnel! Abort abort!

Does anyone really know why they didnt use mirrors it seems? Except possibly in the duck?  (Wtf is that for? Wouldnt it be better rhe pilots didnt wet themselves seeing their doom closing on their 6?)

[MikhaVT]

1 minute ago, Sublime said:

I followed your advice!

However my girlfriends screaming at me and has tried breaking my trackir 3 times theres no fu*king hotas at the end of this tunnel! Abort abort!

Does anyone really know why they didnt use mirrors it seems? Except possibly in the duck?  (Wtf is that for? Wouldnt it be better rhe pilots didnt wet themselves seeing their doom closing on their 6?)

 

i have no idea, but i suspect it might be because there would be little to see behind them in most aircraft due to the high fuselage. 

[Sublime]

This is probably the most likely answer.  Still no mirror external from the plane like the P51?  Man I wish they had a few mirror options.  I want mickey mouse mirrors on my P51.

It just seems really odd to me- especially with the 190.  Even the 109 some side mirrors would be really useful high fuselage or not.

[MikhaVT]

I just recently started flying aircraft with mirrors, but i move my head position up in every aircraft for better all-round visibility. Since the mirrors are fixed they end up looking at the back of my cockpit and are useless ?

[JtD]

They used team tactics, i.e. the Rotten and radios, which made mirrors obsolescent.

[Sublime]

If mirrors are obsolescent than why did the Allies use them and why are they still used?

This seems very un German actually. Usually they prepare for a lot of eventualities. Youd think theyd have prepared for being seperated from a flight for example.

[MikhaVT]

8 minutes ago, JtD said:

They used team tactics, i.e. the Rotten and radios, which made mirrors obsolescent.

 

But modern aircraft have AWACS, Radio, Radar, and data links, but also mirrors, even though they're made "obsolescent"?

Edited October 29, 2019 by Kataphrakt

[Sublime]

Kata do you use trackir? Theyre NOT useless in trackir or VR. Fixed yes but just like IRL i can move my head to the side and see some to the rear sides too just like craning your neck around IRL would allow you to do so. I also deliberately slouch jist a little when centering the trackir so if I straighten my back a lot Im looking down the nose of my plane.  This is *huge* for deflection work

Exactly.  I dont see how they were obsolete if the Allies used them and the USAF and all the worlds other air forces all use them now.

Honestly it sounds like the Germans were the ones on the dead end road

[R6ckStar]

11 minutes ago, Kataphrakt said:

I just recently started flying aircraft with mirrors, but i move my head position up in every aircraft for better all-round visibility. Since the mirrors are fixed they end up looking at the back of my cockpit and are useless ?

yeah some kind of adjustment keybinds for the mirrors would be great

[Sublime]

I dont think these.mirrors moved like car mirrors do now at all.

Again it sucks because you need money - but my god once I got trackir mirrors became useful - actually useful not just 1 in a million times eiter

Oh and dont even bother using the mirror without vr or trackir in the P40

[R6ckStar]

1 minute ago, Sublime said:

Kata do you use trackir? Theyre NOT useless in trackir or VR. Fixed yes but just like IRL i can move my head to the side and see some to the rear sides too just like craning your neck around IRL would allow you to do so. I also deliberately slouch jist a little when centering the trackir so if I straighten my back a lot Im looking down the nose of my plane.  This is *huge* for deflection work

I use trackir and I have a hard time using the mirrors due to how I position myself in the cockpit, I basically have to move back and down to get a good view my six in the mirrors

[MikhaVT]

1 minute ago, Sublime said:

Kata do you use trackir? Theyre NOT useless in trackir or VR. Fixed yes but just like IRL i can move my head to the side and see some to the rear sides too just like craning your neck around IRL would allow you to do so. I also deliberately slouch jist a little when centering the trackir so if I straighten my back a lot Im looking down the nose of my plane.  This is *huge* for deflection work

Exactly.  I dont see how they were obsolete if the Allies used them and the USAF and all the worlds other air forces all use them now.

Honestly it sounds like the Germans were the ones on the dead end road

 

I run trackIR, but i always adjust my default head position up higher (where the pilots had their heads) It really improves all-round visibility. So to use the mirrors in their position i have to stoop down near the gunsight to check it. at that point i feel like i might as well look behind me.

[R6ckStar]

Just now, Sublime said:

I dont think these.mirrors moved like car mirrors do now at all.

Again it sucks because you need money - but my god once I got trackir mirrors became useful - actually useful not just 1 in a million times eiter

Oh and dont even bother using the mirror without vr or trackir in the P40

Maybe not the emplacement but i suppose the actual mirror should have a gimbal so that you could adjust it somewhat

[Sublime]

Hmm.  Idk enough to say.

Kata you do you buddy - i just found.what worked for me

[Bestmann]

I have no idea why the Luftwaffe never really used such a simple yet useful device. But I remember having seen some pictures of 109 pilots with makeshift mirrors attached to the canopy frame of their Messerschmitts. It was likely during the Battle of Britain.  

[-SF-Disarray]

Could it be a lack of room in the cockpit? I've heard that German fighter pits were on the smaller side so they might not fit inside. And perhaps they didn't see the value of the mirror as being high enough to off set the extra drag that putting it outside would cause?

[Yogiflight]

I also saw pictures of 110s with a small mirror inside of the cockpit. Maybe so the pilot could observe his six, when the radio operator was reloading the 20mm guns.

[Krisu]

1 hour ago, PatrickAWlson said:

 

or because of rampant narcissism through the ranks all of the mirrors were already in use.

 

Hans dahlink, do I not look lovely today?

 

Makes me think of this character in the comic le Grand Duc, if I wasn't so lazy I'd respond with a mfw gif of him xD

53 minutes ago, Sublime said:

If mirrors are obsolescent than why did the Allies use them and why are they still used?

This seems very un German actually. Usually they prepare for a lot of eventualities. Youd think theyd have prepared for being seperated from a flight for example.

 

In my game experience I rarely use them to make a comment, I usually avoid putting them on in the spit. I think mirrors in a 190 would be a pretty dope combination though, it has a great back view. In a 109 I don't know

[II./SG.1-MarkWilhelmsson]

I knew a woman who's husband was a 190 pilot. She showed me his cigarette case that had been polished to a mirror finish. She told me that he would install his polished cigarette case as a makeshift mirror and that just about everyone else he flew with did it too. I believe her. 

[Sublime]

Certain mirrors I like better. If I could take my p38 mirror Id use it on almost everything.  That things lovely. I despise the spit/p51/p47 mirror.. ugh.  I feel like my wingman in game had a mechanic weld an oversized ladies home makeup mirror to the top of my canopy as a joke and I have to go get killed in my practical joke. Sigh.

2 minutes ago, III./JG7-MarkWilhelmsson said:

I knew a woman who's husband was a 190 pilot. She showed me his cigarette case that had been polished to a mirror finish. She told me that he would install his polished cigarette case as a makeshift mirror and that just about everyone else he flew with did it too. I believe her. 

Thanks for this thats very interesting

[CUJO_1970]

Easy to find photos of Luftwaffe aircraft with mirrors - it was just done on unit/individual level and was not "standard" issue.

 

 

Edited October 29, 2019 by CUJO_1970

[Lusekofte]

Nice to have mirrors. You see a movement there and start evasive action right away

[[CPT]Crunch]

When Hitler issued the "Not one step backward" order, they cautioned toward the safe side, no glances either.?

[Krisu]

4 hours ago, CUJO_1970 said:

Easy to find photos of Luftwaffe aircraft with mirrors - it was just done on unit/individual level and was not "standard" issue.

 

 

 

These pictures are bringing me flashbacks of the same exact thread that likely pops up every so often

[Sublime]

4 hours ago, CUJO_1970 said:

Easy to find photos of Luftwaffe aircraft with mirrors - it was just done on unit/individual level and was not "standard" issue.

 

 

Cool thx.

However why only done individually?  Is it just... What it is? Or was there a reason? It just seems notable in its abscence when every other side uses them in game.

[CUJO_1970]

1 hour ago, Sublime said:

However why only done individually? 

JTD answered why already - that is the reason. Not part of official Luftwaffe doctrine, but pilots are individuals and sometimes had it done themselves.

[gimpy117]

IMO in il2 if you see someone in a mirror in this game, it's already too late (especially after the hot-"fix") especially if you're in a 109 

[jollyjack]

Ya'll got that wrong. This ole Mirror can only be used for three reasons:

1) there's another one behind the pilot so that he can read those gauges.

2) chatting with the gunner on long flights, or a peep if the missus comes along

3) early morning shave in a long wait on the runway onr a delayed scramble take off

 

[Tyberan]

Beware the hun in the sun.

Why would they need them if they always had the sun on their back, it would have just blinded them when us iing their superior tactics.?

 

 

[Feathered_IV]

14 hours ago, Sublime said:

Sooo.. was the Luftwaffe really superstitious and worried about broken mirrors? 

 

in those days they were all busy looking to the right...

[Bucket109]

According to Günther Rall the mirror vibrated too much and you couldn't see that much with it.

[=621=Samikatz]

12 hours ago, gimpy117 said:

IMO in il2 if you see someone in a mirror in this game, it's already too late (especially after the hot-"fix") especially if you're in a 109 

The P-51 has a fantastic mirror that has saved me a good few times already

[Blitzen]

I remember hearing Gunther Rall say in an film interview sometime ago, that they did have them on the 109's they were flying at the time but the vibration of the plane made them almost useless.