Aircraft Spread

[Scottvdken]

Hi, what is the best way to increase the total area that aircraft / squadrons will occupy and patrol? In my generated missions when I view all flight paths it appears PWCG is vectoring all enemy flights directly towards me/my route almost every time. When I used PWCG back with RoF, the flight patterns looked much more natural with less direct interceptions. I have tried increasing the mission box size, but that does not seem to help. Is there a setting I'm missing? I don't want a massive furball every single mission, which is what is currently happening in my USAAF/P51 campaign.

Edited October 28, 2019 by Scottvdken

[PatrickAWlson]

PWCG does vector flights into or near the box ,including your flight.  PWCG does not vector flights at your flight.  I can do some testing to see why increasing the box size does not produce more of a spread.  Could be an algorithmic deficiency like using the center of the box.

 

[Scottvdken]

I can send you some screenshots tonight of the mission flight paths being generated, or zip the whole campaign, if that helps. I currently have the box set to 500km, and allied flights are all over the place, but Axis flights all get directed to virtually right on top of my flight path. 

[PatrickAWlson]

I flew four missions last night.  First one I met the whole VVS.  Second one nothing - that was a ground attack.  Third and fourth I met one enemy flight.

 

Flight planning for allied and axis is the same, so there is nothing that says for allies do this and for axis do that.  There are, by default, fewer axis flights so playing axis you will more likely face worse odds.  Ground attack and bombing missions search for a target in or near the box.  Fighter missions do their thing within the box.

 

Example:

Bombing flight will choose a train station as a target and then find a train station within the box.

Ground attack will attack troops and then find a point along the front in or near the box.

Fighters will perform an intercept so they will fly their pattern based on a location in the box.

 

What I am concerned about is that some flights may be focused on the center of the box rather than anywhere in the box.  I will look into that to make sure it is not happening.

 

Just tell me which squadron and what date.  There is always the possibility of something funky based on which squadrons are nearby.  Another aspect is that for a squadron to generate a flight . it has to be within range of the target area.

Edited October 28, 2019 by PatrickAWlson

[Scottvdken]

Nov 7th, 1944 is the current date. Flying for USA 352nd P-51, but started the campaign as RAF. See the attached shots, it seems all the action is directed towards my flight. However I lied, looks like Allied flights are vectored the same. Your suspicion about them targeting the center of the box looks spot on to me. 

 

 

Spoiler

 

 

 

 

Edited October 28, 2019 by Scottvdken

[PatrickAWlson]

Those flights are being routed into a 50 km square area.  Encountering one of them is not just a matter of space but also of time.  Those screen shots are prior to accepting the mission.  Not all of those flights will be included in the mission, in fact, only a few will be.  If you want to see what the actual mission will look like then accept it and return to the briefing map.  You will see the flights actually included.

 

I will still look at the code to make sure that the center of the mission box is not overused.  I want the whole box to be used which will cause the missions to concentrate or disperse based on the box size.

 

[Scottvdken]

Ah, I see what you are saying. However, even after generating and accepting the mission, the behavior seems the same. The generated Axis flights are always routed directly onto my flight path. I am starting a new Career, so I'll see if the behavior persists

 

Is this setting for the 'mission box' you are referring to? If so, my campaign does not care about this size setting at all. Adjusting in increments all the way up to 500 had seemingly no effect.  

 

Thanks! 

 

[Letka_13/Arrow_]

There might be something off, I've tried BoM - Sturmovik career and, set the box to 100 km and was intercepted (and shot down) in all five attempts in the first mission of five careers (I play DiD style). If enemy flights go for the center of the box, then the box size is indeed basically useless  

[PatrickAWlson]

Just to be clear, because this is the internet and sometimes a poor choice of words becomes reality ... all mission flights are absolutely not routed to the center of the box.  Just want to make that absolutely clear.

 

So what does happen?  Depends on the mission and the target.  The center of the box is a starting search point.  Search for what?  That varies.

 

If I am flying ground attack and my mission is to attack troops then I will choose a segment of lines in or near the box.  Not in the center.  What can go wrong?  Maybe the box only contains a small segment of line.  Maybe I have to have a minimum line segment to prevent crowding into a small area in this scenario.

 

If I am flying an attack on a train or transport segment then I have to pick a train station or transport route (I use bridges).  Maybe there are very few transport points in the box.  Maybe I have to expand the radius to encompass a minimum number of points.

 

If my target is airfields, same situation.  Maybe there are not that many airfields in or near the box.  

 

The concentration issue, if it even is an issue (sometimes it is fun to face bad odds), is most likely one of two things.  The front line is a candidate or the failure to expand the radius as the box expands is another.  It is probably not a lack of target opportunities behind the lines.  I am going to look into this tonight . to see what I can find.

 

For ground attack and bomber campaigns this should not be that much of an issue.  PWCG keeps only one enemy fighter flight per mission (by default) for ground attack and bombing missions.  PWCG always provides an escort for the player.  In general a player should have a good chance of fighting off any opposition that they face.

 

For fighter careers it is different.  PWCG allows for more fighter opposition, and if that opposition ends up concentrated in one area then life becomes interesting very quickly.

 

I have seen this concentration twice in about 10 missions.  Both times on fighter patrols.  The last mission there were five enemy flights around me at the same time, three of them fighters.  That gets hairy and old if it happens all the time, but I would miss it if it never happened.  The other eight missions were normal.  A couple did not have any enemy air opposition.  Most had just one flight, or maybe two flights, one of them enemy fighters.  I am flying the last days on the Moscow map in March 1942.  Also note that Axis players are more likely to face bad odds than Allied, although a tough mission can happen to either.

 

I am curious as to what others are seeing.  Are you getting overwhelmed every mission?  Is the level of opposition about what you would want? Varied enough?  Not enough?  Feedback welcome. 

[Utopioneer]

2 hours ago, PatrickAWlson said:

I am curious as to what others are seeing.  Are you getting overwhelmed every mission?  Is the level of opposition about what you would want? Varied enough?  Not enough?  Feedback welcome. 

Haven't tried v7 yet, but unfortunately in the last 4 missions we've had absolutely no contact, and I can't even find enemy flights flying around in free camera. I think the only thing we've seen is a flight of 2 JU52s each one of these missions. The previous ~8 missions or so had great variety and the difficulty was perfect.

[PatrickAWlson]

4 minutes ago, Utopioneer said:

Haven't tried v7 yet, but unfortunately in the last 4 missions we've had absolutely no contact, and I can't even find enemy flights flying around in free camera. I think the only thing we've seen is a flight of 2 JU52s each one of these missions. The previous ~8 missions or so had great variety and the difficulty was perfect.

V7 fixes that.  Now the argument is did it fix it too well.

[Utopioneer]

6 minutes ago, PatrickAWlson said:

V7 fixes that.  Now the argument is did it fix it too well.

Ah ok, flying a few missions tonight and will report.

[PatrickAWlson]

So ... as expected, radius calculation was not respecting box size.  I worked last night to make the necessary changes.  Box size is now the basis for target selection radius, and target selection radius is the driver of mission flight spread, so change the size of the box and the flights will now spread out.  A larger spread will result generally less contact, but since it is all based on odds that doesn't mean the flights won't be concentrated, just less likely to be concentrated.  

 

Will be released as part of PWCG 7.0.1 this weekend.

 

 

[Letka_13/Arrow_]

Thank you for all your hard work Patrick, I will try it after your fix.

[PatrickAWlson]

7.1.0 released with a fix for this