cripplehawk Posted October 25, 2019 Posted October 25, 2019 When I created my pilot for a career. I decided to use a German athlete template for him. It of course described him as a bit of an initial screw up and a bit of a killjoy (Named him after a planet in a galaxy far far away to match his icy demeanor). Then I listened to an interesting interview from the late Dr. Heinz Migeod , one time Stuka pilot No worries, no politics discussed in this brief video.. Did anyone noticed this?
DD_Arthur Posted October 26, 2019 Posted October 26, 2019 29 minutes ago, cripplehawk said: No worries, no politics discussed in this brief video.. Did anyone noticed this? Yes, I did notice that the good doctor failed to tell us what a huge, unrepentant and active Nazi Rudel was and continued to be until his dying day. 1 13
Feathered_IV Posted October 26, 2019 Posted October 26, 2019 It certainly does go to show that being a hugely experienced and successful pilot does not automatically make you a decent human being. 1
von_Michelstamm Posted October 26, 2019 Posted October 26, 2019 41 minutes ago, DD_Arthur said: Yes, I did notice that the good doctor failed to tell us what a huge, unrepentant and active Nazi Rudel was and continued to be until his dying day. If you watch the entire multipart interview, Migeod comes across as somewhat of an unrepentant Nazi himself. 1
Cybermat47 Posted October 26, 2019 Posted October 26, 2019 Don’t forget that Hans-Ulrich Rudel was openly a neo-Nazi politician, and friends with Josef Mengele. Or that Douglas Bader was friends with Rudel. Being a good pilot doesn’t make you a good person.
cripplehawk Posted October 26, 2019 Author Posted October 26, 2019 Oh that I am well aware of Rudel's reputation
Legioneod Posted October 26, 2019 Posted October 26, 2019 (edited) Seems like most missed the point of the thread. Whoever wrote that bio definitely seems to have taken some inspiration from Rudels life, at least that's what it seems like. Edited October 26, 2019 by Legioneod 2
Eisenfaustus Posted October 26, 2019 Posted October 26, 2019 By the way - is your Heinrich related to Hermann? Commander of the 4th Tank Army who tried without success to relieve the 6th army at Stalingrad?
IndianJones Posted October 26, 2019 Posted October 26, 2019 They've also borrowed heavily from the life of Franz Stigler (featured in the excellent book A Higher Call by Adam Makos) for one of the bios. Fair enough in his case though - he had a fascinating life and was far from being an unrepentant Nazi!
cripplehawk Posted October 26, 2019 Author Posted October 26, 2019 (edited) . 7 hours ago, Eisenfaustus said: By the way - is your Heinrich related to Hermann? Commander of the 4th Tank Army who tried without success to relieve the 6th army at Stalingrad? Partially (A very distant relative), but he was named mainly after a planet from a galaxy far far away. Edited October 26, 2019 by cripplehawk clarification
R3animate Posted October 26, 2019 Posted October 26, 2019 Yep, I noticed that on his bio too having read Stuka Pilot. I’m excited to see what the American, Canadian(hopefully)and British biographies too as I’m sure they’ll borrow some stories here and there.
Eisenfaustus Posted October 26, 2019 Posted October 26, 2019 3 hours ago, cripplehawk said: . Partially (A very distant relative), but he was named mainly after a planet from a galaxy far far away. That himself could be inspired by Hermann. An armored assault in freezing cold by fascist forces that fails to reach it's goal.
cripplehawk Posted October 26, 2019 Author Posted October 26, 2019 (edited) I first heard of General Hoth from the German film "Stalingrad" (1993). Hoth was only mentioned in the film he was never shown . He was basically the "Felix Steiner" of the film (As in hoping he could save the protaginist from their doom but was unable too). As for planet Hoth being inspired by a General well....The only explanation would be..... Edited October 26, 2019 by cripplehawk wrong link
Krisu Posted October 26, 2019 Posted October 26, 2019 16 hours ago, von_Michelstamm said: If you watch the entire multipart interview, Migeod comes across as somewhat of an unrepentant Nazi himself. Oh my god I mean does happen to be the case for a lot of them, there's one of a woman test pilot recalling test piloting the me-163 (I think, the kommet or whatever) and she sounded like she was a hardcore fanatic back in the day ...no doubt. Her eyes were just ... lol, vivid...as she recalled her experience
von_Michelstamm Posted October 26, 2019 Posted October 26, 2019 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Krisu said: Oh my god I mean does happen to be the case for a lot of them, there's one of a woman test pilot recalling test piloting the me-163 (I think, the kommet or whatever) and she sounded like she was a hardcore fanatic back in the day ...no doubt. Her eyes were just ... lol, vivid...as she recalled her experience Hanna reitsch? She’s a fascinating lady. Fearless test pilot, wound up being the first woman to fly a chopper. A “true believer” for sure, who surprisingly after the war wound up starting the first black African gliding school in Ghana and was allegedly romantically involved with their president. took her own life as an old lady with a cyanide pill she saved from hitler’s bunker to fulfill her end of a suicide pact from 1945. would love to see a modern film about her, but I’m not holding my breath. Edited October 26, 2019 by von_Michelstamm
ZachariasX Posted October 26, 2019 Posted October 26, 2019 (edited) 19 minutes ago, Krisu said: Oh my god I mean does happen to be the case for a lot of them, there's one of a woman test pilot recalling test piloting the me-163 (I think, the kommet or whatever) and she sounded like she was a hardcore fanatic back in the day ...no doubt. Her eyes were just ... lol, vivid...as she recalled her experience Hanna Reitsch. Spoiler A remarkabe person. Nazi. Sure. But she was a more complicated personality then your average uncurable nazi thug. She adored Hitler, that is evident. But after the war, if I had to choose one person that best referenced the torn soul of post war Germany, it would probably be her. The schizophrenia that in public could well be mostly glossed over remained an open chasm in her personality, unable to really come to terms. 6 minutes ago, von_Michelstamm said: took her own life as an old lady with a cyanide pill she saved from hitler’s bunker to fulfill her end of a suicide pact from 1945. Just got me on this^^ Yes, she even said so in her last letter, that she died in the bunker, but lingered on to finally take her own life. The notable difference between her and other ex-/muss-Nazis is that she never advertised anything that supposedly "wasn't so bad" back then. She kept it her own problem. And dealt with it her own way. Edited October 26, 2019 by ZachariasX 2
Krisu Posted October 26, 2019 Posted October 26, 2019 2 minutes ago, von_Michelstamm said: Hanna reitsch? She’s a fascinating lady. Fearless test pilot, wound up being the first woman to fly a chopper. A “true believer” for sure, who surprisingly after the war wound up starting the first black African gliding school in Ghana and was allegedly romantically involved with their president. took her own life as an old lady with a cyanide pill she saved from hitler’s bunker to fulfill her end of a suicide pact from 1945. would love to see a modern film about her, but I’m not holding my breath. Oh wow that does make me look at her a bit more differently now to be honest, the part about the African gliding school. Although, I certainly think "true believer" would classify her during her piloting days xD 5 minutes ago, ZachariasX said: Hanna Reitsch. Reveal hidden contents A remarkabe person. Nazi. Sure. But she was a more complicated personality then your average uncurable nazi thug. She adored Hitler, that is evident. But after the war, if I had to choose one person that best referenced the torn soul of post war Germany, it would probably be her. The schizophrenia that in public could well be mostly glossed over remained an open chasm in her personality, unable to really come to terms. Just got me on this^^ Yes, she even said so in her last letter, that she died in the bunker, but lingered on to finally take her own life. The notable difference between her and other ex-/muss-Nazis is that she never advertised anything that supposedly "wasn't so bad" back then. She kept it her own problem. And dealt with it her own way. Oh my god dude I had just that interview to go on and it shows in her eyes as she recalls. It's honestly a very conflicting time in history to find yourself in so I understand what you mean by torn soul of post war Germany. I'm sure regular folk struggled with their moral decision making at the time, the propaganda at the time.....anyhow, interesting for sure. I also guess a lot of regular folk got that little third reich fever of the time period too...that's I guess what shows in the glistening of her eyes.
von_Michelstamm Posted October 26, 2019 Posted October 26, 2019 9 minutes ago, Krisu said: Oh wow that does make me look at her a bit more differently now to be honest, the part about the African gliding school. Although, I certainly think "true believer" would classify her during her piloting days xD I think it’s complicated. Due to the genocidal wartime racism against certain groups we tend to think of NS as hating and being committed to cleansing the world of everyone different (and who knows if they would have eventually treated the entire world as “lebensraum” under leaders like Himmler), but believe it or not there was some nuance to it. Even side by side with notions of Germanic supremacy, Hitler himself had romantic ideas about groups like Native Americans, and saw an ideal of man existing pure and uncorrupted in his natural environment. That may have been present in Leni Riefenstahl’s post war photography of the Nuba. Like Hannah reitsch, she wound up in Africa too. Her pictures certainly upset Susan Sontag, who disliked the “fascist aesthetic” of glorifying strong nude warrior men... even if they weren’t exactly ‘aryans’. http://www.leni-riefenstahl.de/eng/dienuba/1.html
Krisu Posted October 26, 2019 Posted October 26, 2019 12 minutes ago, von_Michelstamm said: I think it’s complicated. Due to the genocidal wartime racism against certain groups we tend to think of NS as hating and being committed to cleansing the world of everyone different (and who knows if they would have eventually treated the entire world as “lebensraum” under leaders like Himmler), but believe it or not there was some nuance to it. Even side by side with notions of Germanic supremacy, Hitler himself had romantic ideas about groups like Native Americans, and saw an ideal of man existing pure and uncorrupted in his natural environment. That may have been present in Leni Riefenstahl’s post war photography of the Nuba. Like Hannah reitsch, she wound up in Africa too. Her pictures certainly upset Susan Sontag, who disliked the “fascist aesthetic” of glorifying strong nude warrior men... even if they weren’t exactly ‘aryans’. http://www.leni-riefenstahl.de/eng/dienuba/1.html It certainly is more complicated *flashes back to the Olympics just prior the war*. The Nazis did conscript some more exotic nationalities into their ranks albeit to a smaller extent. I wouldn't exactly call any of their rationale ...uhhmm, inclusive? Sound? So it's not like one can be, well the Nazis did want to ethnically cleanse but as a positive side note they also romanticized (yeah...no...all still pretty twisted). Maybe Hitler had some wet dreams/nightmares a la HR Giger style (this one could be a little too far fetched but hey I'm willing to count the possibility : D ). Same for whoever Susan Sontag is LOL
ZachariasX Posted October 26, 2019 Posted October 26, 2019 2 hours ago, von_Michelstamm said: Like Hannah reitsch, she wound up in Africa too. Her pictures certainly upset Susan Sontag, who disliked the “fascist aesthetic” of glorifying strong nude warrior men... even if they weren’t exactly ‘aryans’. Very true. It is hard reconcile with oneself that the crimes you mentioned are just this romance thought thru to the end. 2 hours ago, Krisu said: Susan Sontag The Noam Chomsky for feminists.
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