Spotting in VR on realistic settings!

[Ribbon]

I'm 33y old, perfect eye sight. 

Btw every 2years i have medical examination (very detailed ones with colour, FoV...etc) in institute of aeronautical medicine as my job demands, my hearing is damaged but eyesight is almost supernatural as doctors say.

Still in VR on realistic visibility settings i'm completley blind when flying in MP.

Max distance i can see planes is 3-4km top with dissapearing planes very dependant on map and position in relation to enemy plane.

Last night i spot an enemy plane and dived on him, as i got closer he disappeared, it happened twice aswell other contacts i saw a bit far from me also were poping in and out so i exit the server and game in frustration.

I know devs try to make game realistic as possible and use RL test data and implement it in game, but we have hardware limitation which makes it even harder to spot planes than in RL (expecially VR users).

Spotting in VR was hard before patch but now on realistic visibility it's even harder than pre-patch, i wish we didn't had this upgrade at all, taking in mind servers with different settings also.

Imo opinion those hw limitations should be taken in consideration when developing features realistic cos using RL data is making it unrealistic  ingame at the end.

 

Anyone else have similar problems in VR, or some tips to solve this problem by recommending settings?

I love this sim but this things are drifting me away more and more from it.

 

Thanks!

 

[[DBS]TH0R]

Some of us have problems with visibility on desktop too. There are already a few threads out on this subject.

 

A friend that I fly with uses VR exclusively, and highly recommends this mod:

 

 

I do hope devs find the time to go back to spotting and continue improving it.

Edited October 25, 2019 by [DBS]TH0R

[Sgt_Joch]

Spotting in VR is heavily influenced by your head set, VR settings and in-game settings. Check out this thread:

 

 

[=BES=Senor_Jefe]

I'm not sure what settings you're running, or your specific headset.  But, for my personal situation, I can spot easier now than ever before. So much so, that the "alternate" spotting setting looks like WarThunder easy.   I have Odyssey+ at SS 140%, blurred landscape, sharpen on, no AA, Balanced overall setting (soon to go back to High when next update optimizes clouds).

[SAG]

3 minutes ago, =BES=Savage-6 said:

I'm not sure what settings you're running, or your specific headset.  But, for my personal situation, I can spot easier now than ever before. So much so, that the "alternate" spotting setting looks like WarThunder easy.   I have Odyssey+ at SS 140%, blurred landscape, sharpen on, no AA, Balanced overall setting (soon to go back to High when next update optimizes clouds).

 

just like Savage, I can spot a lot better in VR than I ever could pre-patch, there is a problem though. when planes are far away and the light hits them just right, they glow like the midday sun but when you get close, they lose that glow. If you get close to them, they'll lose that glow in an instant, and don't give you time to adjust to the new brightness , In my case, this is a feature that needs to be refined. It should be a gradual loss of brightness and not like turning a light bulb off.

[Sgt_Joch]

yes, I see much easier than before as well in VR. ( Rift 1/steam vr SS: 100%/2xaa/balanced).

 

Pre-patch, it was very hard, Post-patch you can usually spot the small dot representing the AC from 5-8 km on the horizon and it is much easier to track with 3-5 km.

 

 

[von_Tom]

 

Spotting is also condition dependent, so if you have the sun behind you, you will see contacts further away from the sun more easily than if you look sunwards.  Other conditions massively reduce the ability to spot stuff.

 

It is way better than it was pre-patch imo.

 

von Tom 

[=BES=Senor_Jefe]

21 minutes ago, SAG said:

 

just like Savage, I can spot a lot better in VR than I ever could pre-patch, there is a problem though. when planes are far away and the light hits them just right, they glow like the midday sun but when you get close, they lose that glow. If you get close to them, they'll lose that glow in an instant, and don't give you time to adjust to the new brightness , In my case, this is a feature that needs to be refined. It should be a gradual loss of brightness and not like turning a light bulb off.

Yeah that shimmering is super helpful for long distances, but there is that cutoff where they seem to disappear for a moment to show up in "pre-patch" form closer in.  The shimmering is incredibly overdone and unrealistic 100%, but I find it a decent trade for wearing blinder goggles in a 3d world.

[SAG]

40 minutes ago, =BES=Savage-6 said:

Yeah that shimmering is super helpful for long distances, but there is that cutoff where they seem to disappear for a moment to show up in "pre-patch" form closer in.  The shimmering is incredibly overdone and unrealistic 100%, but I find it a decent trade for wearing blinder goggles in a 3d world.

 

Im ok with the shimmering, just not with it "turning off" like a bulb, it should be gradual. as it is now, if you are at just the right distance from a plane, you can "turn the planes on and off" at your leisure using the zoom. (if you zoom in, they become dark)

[Zaphod-Hawke]

2 hours ago, EAF_Ribbon said:

...

Last night i spot an enemy plane and dived on him, as i got closer he disappeared, it happened twice aswell other contacts i saw a bit far from me also were poping in and out so i exit the server and game in frustration.

...

 

 

I have a rift S, and this has been happening for me as well. I had not seen the thread Sgt_Joch posted though, so I'll be giving those suggestions a try this evening.

[Talisman]

The pre-patch system that we have been using for years was much better IMHO.  I would much rather go back to what we had before than what we have now.  I think the current patched visuals are an absolute mess. 

 

Credit to the dev's for trying, but I don't think the current visuals are up to standard and they should not be included in the release version of IL-2 GB, rather I think the current standard of visual quality should be held back as beta, definitely not full release.  The current visual issues are spoiling an otherwise great patch.

 

I am not enjoying IL-2 GB like I used to due to this issue and have started to migrate to other flight simulations because of it.  I will always keep up some flying with IL-2 GB, but will now divide my time and resources with other flight simulation titles.  This is sad, because I still think that Jason and his team are the best flight simulation development team in the business.  I hope they can fix the visual issues soon so that I can once again fully enjoy this flight simulation.

 

As a secondary issue, these visual problems with IL-2 GB are highly likely to actively discourage people from investing in VR.  Before the patch I would have recommended VR for IL-2 GB pilots, but not now.  However, I am sure that the developers are working on improving things as best they can and that IL-2 GB will soon be top of the pack for VR again eventually, at least I sincerely hope so.

 

Happy landings,

 

56RAF_Talisman

 

 

4 hours ago, EAF_Ribbon said:

 

Last night i spot an enemy plane and dived on him, as i got closer he disappeared, it happened twice aswell other contacts i saw a bit far from me also were poping in and out so i exit the server and game in frustration.

 

 

 

Same thing happens to me time after time.  I also get frustrated and am flying IL-2 GB less and less.

 

Happy landings,

 

56RAF_Talisman

 

P.S.  The 'alternative' visual setting is even worse as an overall experience and I don't go there at all.

Edited October 25, 2019 by 56RAF_Talisman

[40plus]

I am a deeply entrenched single player who only flies in VR and dabbles in Multiplayer every once in a while just for a lark. The fact of the matter is I only ever enjoy those dabbles on servers that have object icons enabled.

 

i was on WoL for a few minutes last night admittedly mildly drunk as usual when flying. I spent 5 minutes circling a "contact" below me trying to get position so I could swoop down, ID and potentially attack. It kept disappearing and reappearing as I circled or zoomed in . . . . . . turns out I was chasing light glinting off of scratches in my canopy (terrific graphical detail btw)

 

Such is the reality of spotting in VR. It's so bad difficult that everything becomes a suspect.

Edited October 25, 2019 by pfrances

[SAG]

57 minutes ago, 56RAF_Talisman said:

The pre-patch system that we have been using for years was much better IMHO.  I would much rather go back to what we had before than what we have now.  I think the current patched visuals are an absolute mess. 

 

Credit to the dev's for trying, but I don't think the current visuals are up to standard and they should not be included in the release version of IL-2 GB, rather I think the current standard of visual quality should be held back as beta, definitely not full release.  The current visual issues are spoiling an otherwise great patch.

 

I am not enjoying IL-2 GB like I used to due to this issue and have started to migrate to other flight simulations because of it.  I will always keep up some flying with IL-2 GB, but will now divide my time and resources with other flight simulation titles.  This is sad, because I still think that Jason and his team are the best flight simulation development team in the business.  I hope they can fix the visual issues soon so that I can once again fully enjoy this flight simulation.

 

As a secondary issue, these visual problems with IL-2 GB are highly likely to actively discourage people from investing in VR.  Before the patch I would have recommended VR for IL-2 GB pilots, but not now.  However, I am sure that the developers are working on improving things as best they can and that IL-2 GB will soon be top of the pack for VR again eventually, at least I sincerely hope so.

 

Happy landings,

 

56RAF_Talisman

 

 

 

Same thing happens to me time after time.  I also get frustrated and am flying IL-2 GB less and less.

 

Happy landings,

 

56RAF_Talisman

 

P.S.  The 'alternative' visual setting is even worse as an overall experience and I don't go there at all.

 

 

And I would recommend IL2 for VR now more than ever. Funny how this new visual system works different for different people and setups. it definitely needs some ironing out.

 

 

 

 

 

42 minutes ago, pfrances said:

I am a deeply entrenched single player who only flies in VR and dabbles in Multiplayer every once in a while just for a lark. The fact of the matter is I only ever enjoy those dabbles on servers that have object icons enabled.

 

i was on WoL for a few minutes last night admittedly mildly drunk as usual when flying. I spent 5 minutes circling a "contact" below me trying to get position so I could swoop down, ID and potentially attack. It kept disappearing and reappearing as I circled or zoomed in . . . . . . turns out I was chasing light glinting off of scratches in my canopy (terrific graphical detail btw)

 

Such is the reality of spotting in VR. It's so bad difficult that everything becomes a suspect.

 

 

I completely agree with the scratches, they are severely overdone (way too bright).

[40plus]

2 minutes ago, SAG said:

I completely agree with the scratches, they are severely overdone (way too bright).

 

 

You misunderstand me. I think they are excellently done . . . . . I'm just that shite at spotting that they trick me.

[RedKestrel]

9 minutes ago, SAG said:

 

 

And I would recommend IL2 for VR now more than ever. Funny how this new visual system works different for different people and setups. it definitely needs some ironing out.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I completely agree with the scratches, they are severely overdone (way too bright).

Maybe part of the issue is that VR right now requires some kind of third party thing to make it work, like Steam VR or something right? With that many different types of hardware and settings and third party software in the middle, it may be very difficult to produce consistent results.

On a flat screen for me new spotting is better than old spotting. 

[SharpeXB]

VR headsets really are still in their infancy and don’t posses the level of resolution that makes them really practical for flight sims. If you are going to be an early adopter of this tech it’s something you will have to deal with. I would hope the Devs don’t make decisions based upon these early gen headsets. 

[SIA_Sp00k]

1 hour ago, SharpeXB said:

VR headsets really are still in their infancy and don’t posses the level of resolution that makes them really practical for flight sims. If you are going to be an early adopter of this tech it’s something you will have to deal with. I would hope the Devs don’t make decisions based upon these early gen headsets. 

 

 

Read....

"I dont have one!."

"Hah! That'll teach you with your fancy thingamajiggy"

"Back in my day, I'd wade 10 miles through 7 feet of snow with nothing more than my underpants wrapped around my heels, just to get a pixel on the screen"

 

Should read.....

 

I dont have VR however, VR is a game feature, its not science fiction or relegated to a small niche of players. Its reality and its here. Lets make the game accommodate it to provide better service to our clients. Lets improve the game for all of our players (insert smiley face, smiley face and another exclaimation mark for effect here)

[[DBS]TH0R]

Gen2 headsets are coming out with much better resolutions (i.e. with which you can read your instruments nicely). And unless you have tired one, I would refrain from commenting. I've yet to find a pilot that prefers desktop over VR in this game (not that there isn't one).

 

EDIT: For me, turning off Sharpness filter and in-game AA helped a lot. With these settings on I am as good as blind on 1440p (desktop here).

Edited October 26, 2019 by [DBS]TH0R
spelling

[SCG_Wulfe]

VR works fine and spotting is just as good if not better than a monitor due to being closer to the pixels. IDing is what is harder. 4k is the hardest for spotting, the more pixels, the smaller they are. 

 

Having spent more time flying the normal vis setting, it is pretty much bang on in general, but there are definitely some niggly bugs affecting visibility in this patch. They affect both the normal and alternate settings and result in planes popping out at close range. Some have theorized that this is due to an abrupt reflection change on the planes surface that throws off your tracking as the plane gets close, whatever it is, it should be fixed. 

[blitze]

For the shimmering - I think Bloom (in startup.cfg) is over done.

 

Spotting seems to be very sensitive to display metrics

Brightness

Colour

Contrast and

Resolution

 

It would be nice to have at least 2 features in Settings added to help people set things up for their displays especially VR where you can't run a Calibration Tool on the screens like a 2D monitor.

 

1. Gamma Adjustment with a dark image and bright image and you adjust the image so you can barely see the dark one.

 

2. RGB sliders with a 0 - 100% RGB colour strips with 10% increments.  You dial each colour in so at 0% there is nothing and then work it to 100%

 

I think this would help a lot.  I am not sure what one would implement for contrast settings and although you can alter them in Pimax with PiTool - you know when you have gone too far as the clouds look bright and blown out.

 

Not sure if this needs to be implemented in game or at the Headset driver end. 

I do know that different Render Resolution Targets will also give different display variables in game so maybe in game would be best.

 

As for VR displays - well, the turn of the year brings a new gen of headsets which should deal with res / detail. I'd fly with nothing else even with the deficiencies of my Pimax 8K - the immersion is just not there for me on a monitor.?

[SharpeXB]

1 hour ago, TWC_Sp00k said:

 

 

Read....

"I dont have one!."

Actually I have one in my hand right now... at the office. We use them here. It’s an Oculus CV1 so not the highest res out there today. Nevertheless yeah these have a lot of improving to do before the resolution is really up for flight sims. 

39 minutes ago, blitze said:

1. Gamma Adjustment with a dark image and bright image and you adjust the image so you can barely see the dark one.

This for sure. 

[Ribbon]

7 hours ago, Zaphod-Hawke said:

 

I have a rift S, and this has been happening for me as well. I had not seen the thread Sgt_Joch posted though, so I'll be giving those suggestions a try this evening.

Yes i'm on Rift S as well, i7 6700k 2070super.

I'll try these setting guys posted above.

Also i'll try switch from steamVR, latest update made background and terrain blurry, it was so clear and beautiful before.

I've seen some threads mentioning Opencomposite app for VR.

 

Also it's a bit confusing switching from server to server, few min ago you are relaxed (with alt visibility), no need to check your six all the time.

Than you go to server with realistic visibility and your head is like rotating radar, all tense so nobody don't sneak on you.

It would be nice to have single option, maybe compromise between alt and realistic visibility or just one of those two (either one).

[[CPT]CptJackSparrow]

3 hours ago, [DBS]TH0R said:

Gen2 headsets are coming out with much better resolutions (i.e. with which you can read your instruments nicely). And unless you have tired one, I would refrain from commenting. I've yet to find a pilot that prefers desktop over VR in this game (not that there ins't one).

 

EDIT: For me, turning off Sharpness filter and in-game AA helped a lot. With these settings on I am as good as blind on 1440p (desktop here).

So for VR you shut in game AA off along with sharpen? What about landscape, blurred or sharp?

[[CPT]Crunch]

Problem is once you shut off all the sharpness, AA, and drop the resolution you can no longer tell what the hell your shooting at and judge the range, let alone see your tracers in VR and it still doesn't help intermediate distance spotting, only helps faster in close spotting.  For me in both visual settings the LOD's past 2.5 to 4.7 Km depending on type and size simply aren't there, out to about 8 to 9 Km's, beyond that they reappear and stand out just fine.  It's no longer a fighter sim, and no combo of any settings including hacked extra low gama and Lefuneste's color mods modified more fixes it, can't see what isn't being physically rendered in VR.  Putting icons on, pausing, and looking, there's nothing there to see against clear skys.  Curious how many having difficulties are using AMD cards?  Not that anyone seems to give a carp or even looking if there is a specific hardware problem.

 

I've plenty of better things to do, and would be were it not for the excellence of the last three planes, the one thing this sim had as its claim to fame was the excellence of its combat simulation, that's all hanging in the wind now.

[SAG]

4 hours ago, EAF_Ribbon said:

Yes i'm on Rift S as well, i7 6700k 2070super.

I'll try these setting guys posted above.

Also i'll try switch from steamVR, latest update made background and terrain blurry, it was so clear and beautiful before.

I've seen some threads mentioning Opencomposite app for VR.

 

Also it's a bit confusing switching from server to server, few min ago you are relaxed (with alt visibility), no need to check your six all the time.

Than you go to server with realistic visibility and your head is like rotating radar, all tense so nobody don't sneak on you.

It would be nice to have single option, maybe compromise between alt and realistic visibility or just one of those two (either one).

 

 

I found ridiculous the amount of frames I gained from switching to Opencomposite, you should try it. I have a similar setup to yours.

[blitze]

6 hours ago, [CPT]CptJackSparrow said:

So for VR you shut in game AA off along with sharpen? What about landscape, blurred or sharp?

Leave Landscape alone for the sake of ... ?

 

No filters, no AA, just bump up SS till it looks good at a frame rate you find acceptable.

 

I went back from SteamVR release version to Beta when the Blur ocured and it seems to be fixed.

[Talon_]

9 hours ago, SharpeXB said:

Nevertheless yeah these have a lot of improving to do before the resolution is really up for flight sims. 

 

And here I am making ace in a flight videos and 12th overall on the Combat Box leaderboard this month... ?

 

New spotting is absolutely fabulous in VR. I've never felt so dangerous. In fact I believe VR is now a significant advantage over flat screen.

[Sgt_Joch]

13 hours ago, SharpeXB said:

Actually I have one in my hand right now... at the office. We use them here. It’s an Oculus CV1 so not the highest res out there today. Nevertheless yeah these have a lot of improving to do before the resolution is really up for flight sims. 

 

Either you have not set it up properly or you are using the wrong VR/game settings, image quality is fine and comparable to a 1080p monitor.

 

A black dot is a black dot, whether on a flat 2d screen or in VR.

[dburne]

7 hours ago, SAG said:

 

 

I found ridiculous the amount of frames I gained from switching to Opencomposite, you should try it. I have a similar setup to yours.

 

 

Yeah Open Composite with Rift is a no brainer, works beautifully.

[[DBS]TH0R]

12 hours ago, [CPT]CptJackSparrow said:

So for VR you shut in game AA off along with sharpen? What about landscape, blurred or sharp?

 

No, I haven't tried that in VR yet as I fly on a desktop monitor. Though I don't see why it wouldn't help in VR as well...

 

I can't see crap with in-game AA and sharpness filter on. Landscape filter can be left on, though I am now testing how it runs with it off.

Edited October 26, 2019 by [DBS]TH0R

[[CPT]Crunch]

Just solved my spotting issues, by yanking the video card and replacing.  Funny thing is they are pretty much identical Vega cards, just different manufacturer's, the one that works is a reference design, the driver remaining the same.  Could it be a difference in on board memory, because architecture and chip should be exactly the same.

[[DBS]TH0R]

This settings helped with spotting issues for me (1080Ti with driver version 440.97):

 

* NV-Cpanel | Anisotropic Filtering: down to x8 (from x16)
* NV-Cpanel | AF sample optimisation: OFF
* NV-Cpanel | Negative LOD bias: Clamp
* in-game | Sharpness filter: OFF (both land and global)

* in-game | Gamma: 0.9
* in-game | Antialiasing: OFF

 

Without these settings I can't spot almost anything in this sim. Hope it also helps someone else out.

 

(though again, I am running on desktop monitor - 27" @ 2560x1440)

Edited October 29, 2019 by [DBS]TH0R

[Voyager]

There's apparently a separate issue where the renderer thinks you are not looking at the target and halts rendering it: 

 

I'm still having the occasional issue with the dots popping in and out if it gets near a canopy line so I may need to see if I can turn off object occulsion too. 

 

[SharpeXB]

On 10/27/2019 at 5:17 PM, [DBS]TH0R said:

This settings helped with spotting issues for me (driver version 440.97):

...

* in-game | Gamma: 0.9

The trouble with handing out this setting as advice is:

1. It might be different on everyone’s system

2. There is no screen to calibrate this in the game so how do you determine it?

 

This game really needs a calibration screen. 

 

And before messing with gamma, it’s a good idea to set the brightness and contrast correctly on your monitor. That also requires test screens. 

Edited October 29, 2019 by SharpeXB

[[DBS]TH0R]

Any "mk1 eyeball" calibration with test screens is as good as useless - and takes too long for a marginal improvement. For proper calibration you need a device, like the one I used:

 

Coming back to your comment about gamma 0.9... the purpose of messing about with gamma is not to improve the image quality rather increasing contrast which makes for spotting targets somewhat easier. I have already written about the trick people use in order to force very low gamma values to give themselves an edge in spotting online.

 

Going lower than 0.9 gamma looks too dark on my monitor, so I stopped lowering it there.

 

 

Edited October 29, 2019 by [DBS]TH0R

[SharpeXB]

4 hours ago, [DBS]TH0R said:

Any "mk1 eyeball" calibration with test screens is as good as useless - and takes too long for a marginal improvement. For proper calibration you need a device, like the one I used with my monitor:

Right. To calibrate color you need special equipment or filters. But for brightness and contrast, you can judge that by eye with a simple test pattern. And those black and while levels determine a great part of your image quality. I’m sure you know that. 

Again having a test screen in this game would really help. 

The Xbox One even has a pretty good set of test patterns built into it. 

[[DBS]TH0R]

First step in calibrating a monitor is setting up desirable brightness and contrast - as a base on which to do color calibration: https://www.tftcentral.co.uk/articles/calibrating.htm

 

While having a test screen for calibration purposes in-game would indeed be helpful, it wouldn't fix the source of the problem - reason why people deliberately make their game look uglier (i.e. spotting problems). Thus the main reason for gamma modifications is not brightness and contrast calibration. 

 

 

 

Edited October 29, 2019 by [DBS]TH0R
edit for clarity :)

[SharpeXB]

1 hour ago, [DBS]TH0R said:

As the main reason for gamma modifications is not brightness and contrast calibration. 

True. I think many people get this mixed up. 

[=BES=Senor_Jefe]

On 10/26/2019 at 12:25 AM, SAG said:

 

 

I found ridiculous the amount of frames I gained from switching to Opencomposite, you should try it. I have a similar setup to yours.

Can you run it if you only have the steam version of the game though?

[SAG]

15 hours ago, =BES=Savage-6 said:

Can you run it if you only have the steam version of the game though?

 

yes, I use the steam version of the game. Opencomposite is made to avoid running steamVR