Tips for flying and fighting in Soviet planes

[hiro]

I like objective based winning for game situations. They can set up online tools to aid in setting up win / loss scenarios based off objectives (sink a carrier)

 

I remember in the golden era of Quake 3, they had this game called saint, it was a variation of smear the queer (the game), it was everybody looking for a halo and everybody vs everybody. As soon as someone got the halo, they were 'sainted' and were godly, got lots of hp, got all the weapons and special abilities (dependent on the game/ server admin settings), and it became everyone vs the saint. The person that laid the killing blow, had X seconds / minutes to pick up the halo (and only they could get it) before it was returned to its random spawn point.

 

The goal was to get the halo, then stay alive for long as possible as the saint, and if you weren't the saint, the goal was to be drop them and get the halo.

 

Or there was the rescue / VIP, where one team started off in one area and had to take a group of VIPs or a VIP to one side, and the other team stopped them. The rules were certain members of the VIP group had to make it, a % of them, or if only one, the VIP wasn't killed.

 

I know certain servers for Black Ops do that. These were objective based games that lasted 5-30 mins . . . Points and stats were recorded, but it was just a matter for show.

 

Also those games have awards like Super Sniper, was one who played a role in capping the VIP from long range for 10 games.

 

 

For our case it'd be a bridge is the target, the bridge can take 8 1000 lb bombs, but the bombers can only hold 2000 lb bombs each, and the plane set only allows 4-6 bombers in the air at a time for the attacking side. The other side is to take out the bombers and both sides get fighters and the planeset is limited to historical settings . . .

 

Or another one is both sides have AI tanks that crawl across to a certain spot on the map and the goal is kill X no. of tanks before they reach the spot they are moving to. Each side has a limited plane set / number for attacking planes (with large cannons / rockets / bombs), even lesser for twinnies, and 1-2 heavies. And there are fighters available but only with cannons / machine guns and the tanks can be coded so the fighters cannot really damage them but only the larger anti tank cannons / bombs etc of attack and bombers can.

 

Awards would be, "Friends for life," for a fighter pilot who's group successfully escorted bombers forth and back for X number of missions in their gaming history. not 'ace of aces' (not talking about the poster) for 100 fighter kills . Can opener for X tank kills etc

 

I saw some IL-2 servers but they were not too many with sim war situations and people played by organized game rules for the scenario. It was fun.

Edited April 5, 2013 by hiro

[6S.Manu]

"Only one thing i see could help the game to develop towards something less linked with achieveing personal scores is the possibility (as a server option) not to record personal points for aerial kills and ground objectives, but just record them anonymously to compute what side is winning the map."

 

This.

 

Anyway I think we're really off-topic, but since the discussion is interesting it should be nice to have it pasted on a new thread by a mod.

[=RvE=Windmills]

Meh, I wouldn't really worry about the Soviet fighters capabilities in this game.

 

Yaks are competitive with their contemporary 109 counterparts, especially the Yak 9 is a beast that is superior to the F4 in a DF. Even the MiGs are great dogfighters, and surprisingly fast compared to 109s.

 

Vs an enemy with energy advantage the excellent allround visibility of the Yaks makes it one of the best planes to defend against a B&Z'ing enemy. You're better off in a Yak then in a Spitfire in an inferior energy position due to this advantage.

 

 

Most Russian fighters in Il2 (except for LAs) are hugely underappreciated by most. MiGs, Yaks, even LaGGs should be very capable fighters if Il2 is anything to go by.

[brook]

Meh, I wouldn't really worry about the Soviet fighters capabilities in this game.

 

Yaks are competitive with their contemporary 109 counterparts, especially the Yak 9 is a beast that is superior to the F4 in a DF. Even the MiGs are great dogfighters, and surprisingly fast compared to 109s.

 

Vs an enemy with energy advantage the excellent allround visibility of the Yaks makes it one of the best planes to defend against a B&Z'ing enemy. You're better off in a Yak then in a Spitfire in an inferior energy position due to this advantage.

 

 

Most Russian fighters in Il2 (except for LAs) are hugely underappreciated by most. MiGs, Yaks, even LaGGs should be very capable fighters if Il2 is anything to go by.

Made hay in il2 in the Yak 3 with trainer wheels , great plane and fun to fly, till I found the dark side went over to the 109

[smink1701]

I had the same experince!

[Duckman]

And I suspect that it would also pose huge problems for sim developers. To simulate a complex tactical situation is surely harder than fine-tuning of FM and DM.

Agreed. For simulating late-war Eastern Front you would need to set most of the German pilots to novice level while the VVS would be average to good. I suppose many people would find this hard to swallow. In fact realistic AI in the sense of late-war Germans or Japanese, or early-war Soviets, would probably lead to cries of "AI flies like a stupid n00b", "it can't hit anything, WTF are developers doing?", "it just flies straight ahead", etc etc etc. To behave in a realistic way you would actually have to force the AI to behave in atactically unaware way.

 

The other big problem is of course formation tactics. Simmers, even the hardcore ones, tend to have a 1 vs 1 (or at best 2 vs 2) mentality which is appropriate for 1916 but not WWII. However since the AI can't really handle formation tactics either we just have to accept that this is something games can't manage just yet.

 

To summarize, in order to get a realistic TOTAL experience (as opposed to just realistic DMs, FM, and 1 vs 1 tactics) we as simmers have to use house rules like "dead is dead" or penalizing yourself for losing your wingman. We also have to accept "bad" (low-level) AI and focus more on bigger battles instead of our beloved 1 vs 1 or 2 vs 2.

Edited May 5, 2013 by Duckman

[BlitzPig_EL]

Agreed. For simulating late-war Eastern Front you would need to set most of the German pilots to novice level while the VVS would be average to good. I suppose many people would find this hard to swallow. In fact realistic AI in the sense of late-war Germans or Japanese, or early-war Soviets, would probably lead to cries of "AI flies like a stupid n00b", "it can't hit anything, WTF are developers doing?", "it just flies straight ahead", etc etc etc. To behave in a realistic way you would actually have to force the AI to behave in atactically unaware way.

 

The other big problem is of course formation tactics. Simmers, even the hardcore ones, tend to have a 1 vs 1 (or at best 2 vs 2) mentality which is appropriate for 1916 but not WWII. However since the AI can't really handle formation tactics either we just have to accept that this is something games can't manage just yet.

 

To summarize, in order to get a realistic TOTAL experience (as opposed to just realistic DMs, FM, and 1 vs 1 tactics) we as simmers have to use house rules like "dead is dead" or penalizing yourself for losing your wingman. We also have to accept "bad" (low-level) AI and focus more on bigger battles instead of our beloved 1 vs 1 or 2 vs 2.

Very good post.

 

The quality of piloting over the length of a conflict is something that would indeed be very difficult to proplerly model, or accept, in terms of the AI, and totally impossible for

us simmers. In all truthfulness, we are all far too experienced to give an accurate portrayal of any historical air conflict. No pilot in the real deal had as many hours as

we have.

 

In our world, Eric Hartman, Hiroyoshi Nishizawa, and Ivan Kozhedub, are n00bs.

 

Dwell on that for a while.