Rudder Pedals in a country where all you have is cheap saitek and CH

[MasserME262]

Hello everyone,

 

Im living in Argentina, and all the pedals you find here are the cheap-plastic saitek rudder pedals (not even the combat ones), the CH ones (from which I have not read anything good) and Thrustmaster pedals (not the pendular ones).

 

These:

https://www.logitechg.com/en-gb/products/flight/flight-simulator-rudder-pedals.html

http://www.chproducts.com/Pro-Pedals-v13-d-716.html

https://support.thrustmaster.com/en/product/tfrp-en/

 

Which are not that cheap here (OFF topic moment: 'Welcome to Argentina: the country that everything costs like in Norway but the salaries are like ****').

 

Reading on internet about peddals, I noticed in USA, or any other developed serious country, you find tons of great options to chose from, that are not that expensive.

 

So, being the fact that I have to chose between these 3 pedals, which one would you recommend? I guess the Thrustmaster are the "best" ones, but really I dont see a big difference between them.

 

PS: I actually consider the option of buying to some company or whatever in USA and bring them here via deliver (gonna cost me like 5 salaries but ok, I guess I gotta save some money for it). If so, which ones would you recommend, from a serious company that would not give me any trouble with the delivering thing?

 

Thanks in advance.

[Cpt_Siddy]

Build your own, i bet Argentinian is full of handy craftsmen that can make you joystick and pedals, and you can buy some cheap electronics and set up it yourself and get better quality product than most of stuff available commercially. 

 

Internet is full of instruction, the needed electronics and logic boards are cheap from china. All you need is will and time and some handyman skills. 

 

Joystick, at the end of the day, is nothing more than some hall sensors, potentiometers and switches connected to a I/O board and then programmed and calibrated. 

[Voyager]

I've had good success with the CH Pro-pedals, but since their driver coder retired I've heard they can be hit or miss, so of the three I'd probably pick the Thrust master one right now. 

 

The other option if you've got the time and access to the tools are to build a set yourself. You'd need a USB 3 axis joystick to tear down for the controller, but it may be considerably cheaper, rape if you're talking about spending multiple salaries on it: 

 

https://www.flightsim.com/vbfs/content.php?2146-How-ToBuild-Rudder-Pedals

[=420=Syphen]

I've been using CH pedals for a while now and don't have any major issues... The only gripe may be the spacing is a little narrow.

[Guest deleted@83466]

There is nothing wrong with the Saitek pedals.  I used them for years, and even here, if I were going to go for a decent set of budget pedals, the Saitek (and CH) pedals are what I'd be getting.  If you want something better, you can take a look at MFG or Slaw pedals.  I would imagine that they are just as accessible in Argentina as they are anywhere else.

[Beazil]

Have you used any of the "cheap" pedals?  My Saiteks are fifteen years old, and doing great.  Yes, the non combat ones.

You can pay more, and have nicer pedals, but they are not cheap or easy to get.  Try a set from a friend or something before assuming they are bad.

 

After that, if you feel the need to import a higher grade set of pedals, consider vkb, but they don't have brakes.  They count on the user assigning a key, button or brake lever on a stick or hotas setup for that (edit:  Russian style like we see in IL2).  MFG Crosswinds are expensive but very high end.  Bauer (I *think*) is now making pedals for Virpil, and provides several options including various pedals and multiple axis for braking (if you want it) or not.  

The high end Thrustmaster pedals will likely run as much or more than the high end products from MFG and Virpil, but I might suggest you get more for your buck from those manufacturers than the former.

Regardless, good luck with your purchasing decision.  Even the low end thrustmaster entry level pedals would ad alot to one's simming experience imho.  And they would match up pretty well with those Saiteks and CH's.  

Edited October 20, 2019 by JG51_Beazil

[MasserME262]

33 minutes ago, SeaSerpent said:

I would imagine that they are just as accessible in Argentina as they are anywhere else.

Yeah, with a much higher cost because of taxes, but remember that high tax+low salaries often is a bad combination. Believe me, things are not as accesible here is anywhere else, not as easy as that.

 

That said, I gonna take a look to those pedals you mentioned

2 minutes ago, JG51_Beazil said:

Have you used any of the "cheap" pedals?  My Saiteks are fifteen years old, and doing great.  Yes, the non combat ones.

You can pay more, and have nicer pedals, but they are not cheap or easy to get.  Try a set from a friend or something before assuming they are bad.

sorry, maybe I just have a totally wrong idea about them, maybe its just me. I could give them I try, I like the fact that saitek's are not wide like the other 2, giving a more real feeling I guess

[Beazil]

You don't HAVE to spend a fortune relatively speaking, to have a good setup that does everything you need it to do.  You CAN if you want to.  It's one of the attractions of our hobby.  I've spent a small fortune on setups over the years and have some seven different hotas setups in my home from all kinds of manufacturers.  Funny thing is though, I only have one set of rudder pedals.  I briefly had some CH's for an extra setup (and they were just fine as well) but I sent them back to the original owner in exchange for yet another hotas to try.  (I might be an addict).

If I were to upgrade today it would be one of the three aforementioned (imho higher end) manufacturers VKB, Virpil or MFG.  But it would not be because I'm unhappy with my current pedals, if that makes sense.

 

Edit:. I forgot to mention Slaw's pedals as well for the high end market.  Check his stuff on his Facebook page.  I couldn't find info on prices though.  I imagine that would require a message to him.

Edited October 21, 2019 by JG51_Beazil

[JumpnShootman]

Bit of a build but if you have a 3d printer they look pretty damn good

 

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3475445

[356thFS_Melonfish]

Apart from being quite close together the thrustmaster pedals aren't all that bad, you can improve them with better springs too.

[Sokol1]

On 10/20/2019 at 2:45 PM, ME-BFMasserME262 said:

..the CH ones (from which I have not read anything good) and Thrustmaster pedals (not the pendular ones).

 

The biggest complain about "vintage" CH PRO Pedal is be narrow, but is not narrow  like Thrustsmaster TFRP (Cessna 172 like pedals).

 

 

But their construction material and mechanics is better than in Saitek PRO Flitght Pedal and Thrustmaster TFRP.

 

Their potentiometers - old 1990 CTS model with metal box, is  better and more durable than ones used in Saitek and Thrustmaster, but "pot being pot" are subject to wear out with use and send spikes (noise) in axis response (this issue is worse in Saitek and TFRP).

 

And contrary to Saitek and Thurstmaster, CH made their potentiometer's available for replacement.

 

From electronic point of view, CH 1999 USB controller with 8 bits resolution (256 steeps) is "obsolete",*

but some people don't see difference in this in practice, but some see - specially in DCS helicopters.

 

* An 1999 review of CH PRO Pedals. ?

 

If you buy one and if this peculiarity bother you, just buy a cheap ($6 in Aliexpress) Arduino PRO Micro (ATMEGA43u4, 16Mhz, 5v) flash with MMjoy2 firmware (by MegaMOZG, VirPil electronics developer) and have a 10 bits (1024 steeps) USB controller or 12 bit (4096 steeps) if add a cheap MPC3802 ADC. 

 

Or, if have some DIY skill can replace their rudder axis potentiometer with TLE5011 contacless sensor. Example.

 

Then, my advise for your "3rd. world"  problem is get CH.

 

In USA - if you are not looking for Thrustmaster TPR, will find VKB T-Rudder, a "high end" pedal, but only with rudder axis, no physical brakes, but can emulate differential brake via joystick button* (unnecessary in IL-2:Bo'X' because this game have this feature for all planes). All other "high end" pedals (MFG, VPC, Slaw) need buy from western Europe countries.

 

* I use VKB T-Rudder and VKG Gladiator Mk.II stick, since I don't need "twist (rudder) axis" of Gladiator I set this for by "wheel brakes", what work OK in IL-2: CloD, Bo'X' and DCS.

 

Best place for buy T-Rudder in USA is in X-Plane.org store. They send worldwide - if buy from other country is allowed/viable in your country.

 

Other option for buy direct is VKBSim in Aliexpress (China).

Edited October 21, 2019 by Sokol1

[SCG_OpticFlow]

I got the Thrustmaster RCS from the early 1990s for ~20 EUR from Ebay, its extremely simple and yet durable (the frame is made from very hard aluminum alloy planks and the joints are using some kind of low-friction washers between the planks). Considering its almost 3 decades old and doesn't show significant signs of wear, I'd guess its going to outlive me with proper care.

 

The base is wide, the spring is stiff and has an industrial feel to it, like something made in the USSR (it's actually made in the USA). Except for the pot there are no electronics on it, you'd need to use external device to read it (it connects via game port).

 

Here is how it looks like (not my picture):

 

[SAG]

You can get VKB products shipped from Aliexpress to anywhere in the world,

 

I got mine shipped to Colombia from here

 

https://es.aliexpress.com/item/32823288834.html

 

[US103_Baer]

I can vouch for an amazing order/tracking/delivery process from MFG.

I live in Malaysia, a lovely place but totally devoid of anything like decent PC peripherals.

 

Having finally committed to the MFG Crosswinds i placed an order on their site on a Monday. They were under my desk by Friday mid-afternoon!

 

[MikhaVT]

I've been using a pair of CH pedals for a while. They have a bunch of issues but i've been able to live with it. 

 

First issue i've had with them is that occasionally it seems to start wigging out on the rudder axis. This has happened twice, and both times i've fixed it by taking it apart and putting it back together (literally just that...) I do clean out the potentiometers while i'm at it, but just taking it apart fixes it for some reason. I wonder if a vigorous shake would do the same... ?

 

Second issue was the software not working nicely with windows 10. There's a thread on this forum somewhere which has a fix, i used that and this issue has been gone since. I've had issues in the past with the CH drivers being the cause of some bluescreens on my otherwise completely stable computer, but a driver reinstall solved that. 

 

My complaints with the pedals would be mostly that they're very close together which is uncomfortable to work with, their design allows dirt to enter the casing, and the spring force for them is much lower than i would personally like on pedals.

 

I'll be looking to replace these if i continue to be into flightsims, mostly with something that needs more force to actuate. 

[RedKestrel]

33 minutes ago, Kataphrakt said:

I've been using a pair of CH pedals for a while. They have a bunch of issues but i've been able to live with it. 

 

First issue i've had with them is that occasionally it seems to start wigging out on the rudder axis. This has happened twice, and both times i've fixed it by taking it apart and putting it back together (literally just that...) I do clean out the potentiometers while i'm at it, but just taking it apart fixes it for some reason. I wonder if a vigorous shake would do the same... ?

 

Second issue was the software not working nicely with windows 10. There's a thread on this forum somewhere which has a fix, i used that and this issue has been gone since. I've had issues in the past with the CH drivers being the cause of some bluescreens on my otherwise completely stable computer, but a driver reinstall solved that. 

 

My complaints with the pedals would be mostly that they're very close together which is uncomfortable to work with, their design allows dirt to enter the casing, and the spring force for them is much lower than i would personally like on pedals.

 

I'll be looking to replace these if i continue to be into flightsims, mostly with something that needs more force to actuate. 

I have had good luck with the CH pedals. They are pretty close together but I don't find that to be too bad. But I agree on the spring - it is a very light resistance combined with a pretty strong central detente, which makes precise rudder movements near the centre of the axis. This makes coordinated turns in planes with sensitive rudders pretty difficult. It can be addressed with a bit of a deadzone and an aggressive rudder curve in the game settings but it is still a downside. The place for the dust and dirt to get in is a big issue, especially if you have pets or kids. A ball of crumbs and cat hair in the sliding area for the pedals can be pretty debilitating.

I have never even bothered with the software - it's archaic and I don't think there's any likelihood of it being updated. 

I'm hoping to save up for some MFG Crosswind pedals in the future as they seem to be very good. But until then the CH is adequate.

[MikhaVT]

19 minutes ago, RedKestrel said:

I have never even bothered with the software - it's archaic and I don't think there's any likelihood of it being updated. 
 

 

i use the software because i needed a bit of a less-sensitive rudder curve to handle IL-2. I also programmed a profile which turns the toe brakes into left clicks so i can advance visual novels while working on other things.

[RedKestrel]

1 hour ago, Kataphrakt said:

 

I also programmed a profile which turns the toe brakes into left clicks so i can advance visual novels while working on other things.

I guess you could say that is a ...novel ...use for rudder pedals!

[Sokol1]

DIY - Aluminum profiles, bearings, 3D Printed parts,  R/C damper, Arduino PRO Micro, Hall sensor

 

 

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3475445

Edited October 23, 2019 by Sokol1

[mpdugas]

Well over a decade of using a wholly-CH HOTAS setup (Pro pedals, Pro throttle and Fighterstick) with zero problems.  The programming software is very simple and still works well under the continuing evolution of W10 Pro.

[SeaW0lf]

On 10/21/2019 at 3:35 PM, Sokol1 said:

* I use VKB T-Rudder and VKG Gladiator Mk.II stick, since I don't need "twist (rudder) axis" of Gladiator I set this for by "wheel brakes", what work OK in IL-2: CloD, Bo'X' and DCS.

 

Other option for buy direct is VKBSim in Aliexpress (China).

 

On 10/21/2019 at 7:01 PM, SAG said:

You can get VKB products shipped from Aliexpress to anywhere in the world,

 

I got mine shipped to Colombia from here

 

https://es.aliexpress.com/item/32823288834.html

 

 

Did you guys get used to the vertical movement of the VKB? I didn't know that I could order through Aliexpress, a website that I'm used to (love it), but the vertical control, as if it were an accelerator, left me in doubt. I don't know if the ankle joint will be as accurate as the leg flexion. At least at first. I have no use for toe brakes for now, but I'm pretty sure to get MFS 2020, so I'm not sure if that will give some problems.

[SAG]

52 minutes ago, SeaW0lf said:

 

 

Did you guys get used to the vertical movement of the VKB? I didn't know that I could order through Aliexpress, a website that I'm used to (love it), but the vertical control, as if it were an accelerator, left me in doubt. I don't know if the ankle joint will be as accurate as the leg flexion. At least at first. I have no use for toe brakes for now, but I'm pretty sure to get MFS 2020, so I'm not sure if that will give some problems.

 

It's absolutely no problem unless you put them reaally close to your chair, like 90 degree bent knees close. i've had mine for a couple of years? and don't have any complaints.

[Merell]

I had a set of the original Thrustmaster rudder peddles, best set I ever owned but there is a problem, I will get to that in a min.  As for CH I have a set that is 18 years old. It is just now starting to ware out but it is only the pot and that can be replaced easily. I hate the narrowness of the set and it is uncomfortable at times.  Currently I have a Slaw Device on order and should see it in a month or so.

 

Now as for the problems with the Thrustmaster there are actually two.  Fist is the spring will break eventually and I was at the time unable to find after market replacements.  Luckally at the time I lived near where Thrustmaster HQ was and they would give me all the free parts I wanted so it was not an issue.  That said springs may possibly now be found and of course you could go with a lesser spring than what they used but I found nothing that was as stiff as theirs and I liked the resistance.  With free parts available at the time I had no reason to lessen my preference.  Second problem, over time the aluminum rails that the peddles are attached to will sag and start wearing out the bakalite rails that are just under them.  When that happens you are going to have to find a solution to replace them because I am sure you will be hard pressed to find new ones.  Good news is plastics that would be similar are fairly abundant these days so you should be able to find something that will work.  I do have to say that when I owned them I probably put no less than 4 hrs per day average use on that set and I know that is why the rails started to sag.  If you are not going to use them a lot they should last. 

 

As for comfort and joy of use I recommended the old Thrustmasters if you can find them. As for durability and long life with the with the cost of being uncomfortable I suggest the CH peddles. Got mine for $99 in 2002 so that works out to $5.50 per year, can't beat that!

 

O one last thing, if memory serves Thrustmasters had toe breaks.

Edited May 13, 2020 by Merell

[Sokol1]

8 hours ago, SeaW0lf said:

 

 

Did you guys get used to the vertical movement of the VKB? I didn't know that I could order through Aliexpress, a website that I'm used to (love it), but the vertical control, as if it were an accelerator, left me in doubt. I don't know if the ankle joint will be as accurate as the leg flexion. At least at first. I have no use for toe brakes for now, but I'm pretty sure to get MFS 2020, so I'm not sure if that will give some problems.

 

If you use in conventional office chair, T-Rudder is very comfortable due the up<>down movementof foots tip, this provide more fine control that moving foots, legs, hip.

 

But if will fit in a kind o cockpit can bolt on vertical instead horizontal, and use with back<> forth movement of foots, with heels sliding on floor, like an helicopter pedal. 

 

The software T-link furnish solution for brakes in any game, allowing taxi maneuvers, this software is not need in Bo'X because what he do the game controls already allow.

 

For the price ~$240, quality construction - all metal, bearings, top-notch electronics and contactless sensor, T-Rudder is a very good deal.

 

[SeaW0lf]

8 hours ago, Sokol1 said:

 

If you use in conventional office chair, T-Rudder is very comfortable due the up<>down movementof foots tip, this provide more fine control that moving foots, legs, hip.

 

But if will fit in a kind o cockpit can bolt on vertical instead horizontal, and use with back<> forth movement of foots, with heels sliding on floor, like an helicopter pedal. 

 

The software T-link furnish solution for brakes in any game, allowing taxi maneuvers, this software is not need in Bo'X because what he do the game controls already allow.

 

For the price ~$240, quality construction - all metal, bearings, top-notch electronics and contactless sensor, T-Rudder is a very good deal.

 

 

Thank you guys, and yes, for a pedal with a magnetic sensor, it is a bargain here. Saitek is selling their pedals in Brazil for basically the same price. I’m also used to buy at Aliexpress. Otherwise it would be impossible with all the fees and taxes paid up front, expensive DHL shipping, European fees, etc.

 

I have no cockpit setup. My G940 is sitting on top of the computer case (I use it almost everyday) and the pedals below the desk.

 

When things get back to normal (I have an order / package on the way that was sitting in China for 60 days), I might bite the bullet.

[Sokol1]

Interesting opinion about "high end pedals":

https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=4327850&postcount=38

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

9 hours ago, Sokol1 said:

Interesting opinion about "high end pedals":

https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=4327850&postcount=38

Had tested Slaw Vipers v2 and Dora V2 , chosen to stay with Doras because Vipers are for jets mainly or planes where you seldom push pedals to the limits. 

Precision and build quality is great plus easy to adjust or change cams. You need to mount them otherwise they will move when in use. Recommend but not cheap like all best products.