P-51 “versus” Tempest

[GP*]

It seems that these two birds are the queens of high speed cruise, high top speed, great visibility, and good overall maneuverability on the Allied side. The Tempest gets the brutal power of 4 Hispanos, while the Mustang gets the K-14 sight. Both are tough opponents for LW piston engine and jet engine fighter(s) alike. 
 

So, whether it’s numbers based or just what you enjoy when not staring at an excel sheet competition, which of these two are you enjoying more, and why?
 

(This is meant to be a fun conversation; please keep it light). 
 

Wildcard: if you prefer the P-38 or P-47 more, why? (I left the P-38 out initially because despite being great in game, there were obviously some issues with it historically in the ETO). 

Edited October 8, 2019 by Pre

[Rjel]

The P-51D all the way. I'm a homer I guess. It's a far better performer than most wanted to believe before the patch. I've tried the Tempest. It's 20mm hit harder I guess, but I'm a far better shot with the six .50s in the Mustang. They've been more devastating than prior arguments would imply. I'm more than pleased with the plane so far.

[CountZero]

Tempest for me, got bored with 51 in dcs it dosent exites me any more, also tempest on max power dont smoke so its stelthier, has 1h of combat that is only few kmh slower then 9lbs, has 4x best 20mm in game, better controlability at high speds, better zoom climb, looks like same turns as 51, only drow back is its slower up high, but i got used to flying slower airplanes up high so thats not big prob for tempest (2nd option is 38, then 51, spit9 and 47)

Edited October 8, 2019 by 77.CountZero

[RedKestrel]

4 minutes ago, Pre said:

It seems that these two birds are the queens of high speed cruise, high top speed, and good overall maneuverability on the allied side. The Tempest gets the brutal power of 4 Hispanos, while the Mustang gets the K-14 sight. Both are tough opponents for LW piston engine and jet engine fighter(s) alike. 
 

So, whether it’s numbers based or just what you enjoy when not staring at an excel sheet competition, which of these two are you enjoying more, and why?
 

(This is meant to be a fun conversation; please keep it light). 

I enjoy the Tempest more. I just like the feel of the cockpit and how it handles. I just about never use any of the gyro gunsights as I have found in the past that the dogfights are too dynamic to really use them effectively, so I don't notice its absence. Of course its possible this has changed with the new pilot physiology, where violent and high-g maneuvers are harder to do so the gyro sights aren't always shooting at targets hidden behind your nose anyway.

And, of course, My God In Heaven Those Hispanos. My sole online kill with the tempest so far was in a near head on, with a 190D9 flying past me at about 45 degrees deflection. I took a snap shot in front of his nose, maybe a 1 second burst. Closure speed must have been about 600 mph or more, I was sure I missed. But I snapped my head back over my shoulder and saw that he was on fire and bits of aircraft were tumbling through the sky behind him. 

I like the .50s in this game but the 4x20mm on the Tempest is on a whole other level.

[Requiem]

23 minutes ago, Pre said:

It seems that these two birds are the queens of high speed cruise, high top speed, great visibility, and good overall maneuverability on the Allied side. The Tempest gets the brutal power of 4 Hispanos, while the Mustang gets the K-14 sight. Both are tough opponents for LW piston engine and jet engine fighter(s) alike. 
 

So, whether it’s numbers based or just what you enjoy when not staring at an excel sheet competition, which of these two are you enjoying more, and why?
 

(This is meant to be a fun conversation; please keep it light). 
 

Wildcard: if you prefer the P-38 or P-47 more, why? (I left the P-38 out initially because despite being great in game, there were obviously some issues with it historically in the ETO). 

Tempest. When you hit something it stays hit.

[sevenless]

Tempest all the way. I like it that when you hit something it is instantly dead. .50cal is not my thing.

[Chief_Mouser]

Tempest. Not a huge amount of ammo so spray and pray isn't an option, but catch something and it's gone. Caveat: am enjoying the P-38 immensely; much better than I imagined and great fun.

[-SF-Disarray]

While the Tempest is a fine plane, and unarguably the harder hitter of the two, the P-51 is better for me. I find I am more able to get into and stay in fights for longer with the 51. When I try to force the issue in the Tempest I almost always end up asleep at the wheel and that is not conducive to winning. The guns, while not individually as powerful, come together in such a way to make their presence known. The only time I find myself wanting to be in a Tempest is when I need to run down a 262. If you can catch them at a bad time or get them turning you can eat up the distance and get into striking range with the Tempest in ways you simply cannot in the 51.

[Finkeren]

Tempest for the gaming experience, IRL I'd probably rather fly the P-51.

 

I don't really like high altitude combat and down low there is just nothing that beats the Tempest. The awesome firepower, easy handling and wonderful gun sight just makes it a pure winner. I particularly like how effective the rudder is compared to other fighters. 

 

The only real problem with the Tempest is, that it is so powerful that it's very easy to get into situations, where you really can't maneuver much without blacking out. 

Edited October 8, 2019 by Finkeren

[357th_Dog]

P-51...

Because I think she's prettier 

[RedKestrel]

5 minutes ago, Finkeren said:

Tempest for the gaming experience, IRL I'd probably rather fly the P-51.

 

I don't really like high altitude combat and down low there is just nothing that beats the Tempest. The awesome firepower, easy handling and wonderful gun sight just makes it a pure winner. I particularly like how effective the rudder is compared to other fighters. 

 

The only real problem with the Tempest is, that it is so powerful that it's very easy to get into situations, where you really can't maneuver much without blacking out. 

I found a little trick to exit those situations. You just keep maneuvering until you pass out completely, then plow into the ground in a gigantic fireball that entertains your enemies and serves as a cautionary tale for your friends.

It has gotten me out of those situations with a 100% success/mortality rate.

[7.GShAP/Silas]

Does anyone have an offhand approximation of the speed difference between a tempest and P-51 at combat settings below, say, 3km?

 

1 minute ago, RedKestrel said:

I found a little trick to exit those situations. You just keep maneuvering until you pass out completely, then plow into the ground in a gigantic fireball that entertains your enemies and serves as a cautionary tale for your friends.

It has gotten me out of those situations with a 100% success/mortality rate.

 

You got me, I was fully prepared to learn a new secret technique!

[CountZero]

12 minutes ago, 7.GShAP/Silas said:

Does anyone have an offhand approximation of the speed difference between a tempest and P-51 at combat settings below, say, 3km?

 

 

You got me, I was fully prepared to learn a new secret technique!

This is what i get (by techchat indicators):

Spoiler

 

But as you have 15min combat on P-51 67" and 1h on Tempest 9lbs, better comparason is continuous and emergancy for 51 to combat and emergancy for Tempest:

Spoiler

 

 

Edited October 8, 2019 by 77.CountZero

[RedKestrel]

12 minutes ago, 7.GShAP/Silas said:

Does anyone have an offhand approximation of the speed difference between a tempest and P-51 at combat settings below, say, 3km?

 

 

You got me, I was fully prepared to learn a new secret technique!

Jokes on you, the only thing people learn from me in this game is hilarious new ways to decorate the landscape with one's earthly remains!

[Sgt_Joch]

so far, I like the Tempest more than the P-51. I find the P-51 too twitchy, but that may be due to my piloting style.

 

Personally, I like the P-38 the best so far, smooth, fast, lovely engine sound, great visibility from the cockpit. Great for air-to-ground which is my primary focus.

[[DBS]TH0R]

I have a long history with P-51 being my all time favorite fighter, from the '46 days where it was not as good all-arounder as it is here. Objectively the .50s need getting used to, but once you do they pack a mean punch and can definitely reach out. What they lack in raw firepower, they get back with longer trigger time than the Tempest.

 

In other words: the main advantage of the P-51 is the fuel and ammo loadout. One can cruise for hours in that thing. 40% fuel loadout is all you will ever need.

 

K-14 sight is nice for high level fighting, but down low it is more of a nuisance than useful simply due to the fact enemy planes are faster at dodging your rounds than AI. Then again, that one time when you surprise someone you can be sure all your rounds will be on target with it...

 

Tempest is my close second, from the drop dead gorgeous cockpit to the fast firing Hispanos that will always leave a mark.

Edited October 8, 2019 by [DBS]TH0R

[Voidhunger]

+1 to Finkeren post.

I like the recent British voices.... drinking whisky, smoking cigar and shred to pieces everything in my way ?

 

but my heart will always beat for German planes...

[Matt]

I prefer the P-51, which is my favorite plane of BoBP (together with the D-9). It just feels very nimble, even though it's a worse performer overall (low to mid-altitude speed and climb rate atleast). The P-51 is also slightly harder to hit and i really don't like the cockpit layout and instruments of the Tempest. Also having a g-suit helps and i love the gunport whistle sound of the P-51. The armament of the Tempest is fantastic (best overall imho), but i never have real trouble shooting down planes with the 50 cal either. 

 

I also prefer the P-38 to the Tempest. The P-38 is just a lot of fun to fly around with, both when fighting planes or when doing ground attacks and it's probably the plane that positively surprised me the most, because i never liked to fly it in '46. The Tempest feels a bit bland to fly compared to the US planes and it's probably my least favorite Allied plane of BoBP right now. But that's purely because i just enjoy flying the other planes more, not because i think they are better planes (which they are not).

[II./SG.1-MarkWilhelmsson]

2 hours ago, 77.CountZero said:

only drow back is its slower up high, but i got used to flying slower airplanes up high so thats not big prob for tempest 

 

You mean Lagg with 23mm all HE at 8k on WoL? Hahaha

[CountZero]

10 minutes ago, III./JG7-MarkWilhelmsson said:

 

You mean Lagg with 23mm all HE at 8k on WoL? Hahaha

Yes, and if i had no problem fighting A3s F4s and g14s on that alt, Tempest is upgrade then

[II./SG.1-MarkWilhelmsson]

3 minutes ago, 77.CountZero said:

Yes, and if i had no problem fighting A3s F4s and g14s on that alt, Tempest is upgrade then

 

You mean diving down from 7-8k and spraying 23mm HE at blues who are below you at 5K? Yea I've watched you on my tracks haha. Ripgrunwald as your bait man is a nice game. Hahaha JK

[CountZero]

4 minutes ago, III./JG7-MarkWilhelmsson said:

 

You mean diving down from 7-8k and spraying 23mm HE at blues who are below you at 5K? Yea I've watched you on my tracks haha. Ripgrunwald as your bait man is a nice game. Hahaha JK

Exactly like that, i didnt know im watched i would dress better ?

[69TD_Hajo_Garlic]

Ima go p38 and 51 before the tempest cuz I don’t like cheeky britbongs ordering me around and flying it ends up like my Saturday nights if I hit the town with some of my friends who are bad influences.

i also like having a longer firing time than life expectancy. I’ve yet to have a tempest get behind me where I couldn’t force  an overshoot but I’ve been pk’d by .50s for about 90% of my deaths so far online.

[Cybermat47]

I haven’t flown the Tempest much, and honestly I’m having too much fun with the P-51 to fly any other Allied plane.

 

 

[Y-29.Silky]

The Tempest should be more comparable to the P-47.

 

http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/p-47/p-47.html

http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/tempest/temptest.html

 

But the P-47 isn't performing how it should.

Edited October 8, 2019 by Y-29.Silky

[ShamrockOneFive]

There is so much to like about this patch I'm kind of overwhelmed but I knew even before that I'd be completely overjoyed to fly the Tempest again and that much is true. But I do have to say that the Mustang is excellent as well. It's probably the best representation of the P-51D Mustang in the IL-2 series and in some respects I think it's at the top for combat simulations if only because 1CGS made sure that the Mustang fit the time period exceptionally well with all of the modifications (sight, boost, rockets, bombs, etc.) that it needed.

[Bremspropeller]

Don't know about you, but I'm not into square-jawed girls.

[357th_Dog]

4 minutes ago, Bremspropeller said:

Don't know about you, but I'm not into square-jawed girls.

And their adams apple is off putting! 

[Legioneod]

32 minutes ago, Y-29.Silky said:

The Tempest should be more comparable to the P-47.

 

http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/p-47/p-47.html

http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/tempest/temptest.html

 

But the P-47 isn't performing how it should.

 

I will say is that the Tempest and P-47 should be the kings of dives and zooms but the P-47 is lacking in this regard.

 

Speed wise the P-47 is pretty close to reality imo and there are more important things that need work for the P-47 (damage model being the primary concern imo)

 

P-47 just doesnt perform like the historical accounts say it should, P-51 however is a dream and is pretty much what I expected it to be.

Edited October 9, 2019 by Legioneod

[CIA_Yankee_]

I prefer the P-51, mostly because I like its image as the USAAF's small nimble fighter. Basically the american equivalent to the Spitfire, the 109, and the Yak.

 

But overall I prefer the P-38. Amazing machine, and surprisingly effective in a dogfight. Turned many a bounce in that beauty.

[AndytotheD]

I've gotten more kills flying the P-38 than I have ever got in any other aircraft in BoX. It really came as a surprise to me how good of a fighter it is. I have yet to fly the mustang into a fight and come out alive, but that's absolutely down to personal tactics.

[IndianJones]

I love the Tempest - it's such a mean looking aircraft, but if you look closely you can imagine it being almost sleek if it wasn't for the massive chin radiator (the Tempest Mk.II is proof of that). The Mustang is great but I've seen it in almost every WWII combat flight sim I've played, so it's nice to have something fresh. 

The P-38 is my surprise of the update though - sleek, beautiful, great engine sounds, fast, maneuverable and a mean punch with all those guns (and cannon!) concentrated in the nose. 

[Blackhawk_FR]

Hard to say... one has 4 hispanos, one has a g suit. 

I'd rather choose the P51 for the g suit, the look, and it's always been one of my favorit.

 

When flying german, I will shit on myself more with a Tempest on my tail than a Mustang... 

[JtD]

Right now I prefer the P-51, I like the sound of it better than that of the Tempest.

[=WoVi=cercataa]

P-38 or P-47 are lovely, but very differents beasts, so I see no sense to compare.

 

The P-51 and the Tempest yes, and at the moment I like more the tempest, I feel it has more maneuverability, and keeps a lot of energy in the turns.

But for making a fair comparison, I should play with both a lot, to compare fire power, accuracy, range, durability taking impacts, etc ...

[Mauf]

Currently the Tempest, but that's probably due to preferring to fly with a spade grip and using a spade grip on a P-51 just feels wrong:P

[=gRiJ=Alado]

tempest, one of the best air to ground, and if I don't have targets on the ground, I just climb up to look for them in the air

[Diggun]

If the Spit IX is a classy lady, the Tempest is an out of control raging hormone monster. An absolute brute, in the best possible way. So effective it's terrifying. I dove after two far distant contacts on KOTA the other day, and by the time I'd id'd them as bomb laiden 190s, not p47's, I had gone between them close enough to part their hair and left them in my dust as if they were standing still. She demands to be treated with respect and is one of the few (fighters at least) in the sim that can genuinely get ahead of the pilot. A different type of challenge to most. Rewards cerebral, planned out attacks and when you connect with those cannons it's plain and simple murder. Really puts the zoom into boom and zoom, but you can still mix it, as the Dora I put down the other day after a good 3 minute rolling scissors can testify. I'm a fan. 

[Stonehouse]

13 hours ago, Pre said:

It seems..... (I left the P-38 out initially because despite being great in game, there were obviously some issues with it historically in the ETO). 

 

May well be wrong but I thought the 9th TAC had 3 groups of P38s in a fighter bomber role and 1 in specialised recce post D-Day through to around the time of Bodenplatte? So I believe they were historically definitely there but also definitely not in the same numbers as P47 or P51 groups. Pretty sure the majority of US fighter bomber groups were P47s.

Edited October 9, 2019 by No457_Stonehouse

[Pict]

16 hours ago, Pre said:

which of these two are you enjoying more, and why?

 

P-51. Which is a big praise for the P-51 from me as I rate the Tempest very highly, both the real versions and the translation the developer has managed to produce in game.

 

For the 1st time in a combat sim the 50 cals are working as advertised. The devs seem to have gotten that API belting right, which makes them very effective, particularly against air targets, that coupled with the higher number of rounds you can carry gives you a more versatile weapon than the Tempest's 20mm's. Plus, I like the option for more ammo and in particular the option to go down to 4x50's for better roll and less weight.

 

150 octane gas and a g-suit let you get even more out an already very capable fighter. (Not sure where the Tempest is for those features)

 

Not sure about numbers, but even without the upcoming drop tanks, the P-51 must have one of the best ranges of all the current in game fighters.

 

Rear view is significantly better in the P-51 than the Tempest.

 

As the old saying goes, "if it looks right, it often is right". That was the case for the real world P-51 and in this case the developers have done a sterling job of translating that into the game. 

 

16 hours ago, Pre said:

Wildcard: if you prefer the P-38 or P-47 more, why?

 

That's actually a hard one to answer. Initially, I suppose like most people I would have gone with the P-38 over the P-47 for a host of reasons, not least that I like twin engines. But I have run the P-47 a few times since the others came out and figured it's not as bad as it has been painted. Linking the Turbo & Throttle levers helped out some there (aka learning how to fly it).

 

While the P-38 turns better, I think it's payload will largely put it in the same ground pounding role that it and the P-47 were virtually historically relegated to by the P-51.

 

Both the P-47 & P-38 are large targets, easy to spot and easier to hit than say a P-51, with the P-38 being slightly larger and with it's unique twin boom silhouette, easier to identify at a far greater distance, reducing the element of surprise.

 

The 4x50's + 1x20mm of the P-38, is a massive enough punch and all grouped in the nose I think possibly one of the better arrangements available in game. Coupled with one of the heaviest bomb loads in game, certainly for a fighter bomber, or rockets if that's your thing, make the P-38 very versatile. This may well give the P-38 the edge over the P-47 in my opinion, as I find the much touted 8x50's are only marginally more effective that 6x50's or even 4x50's, when I consider the trade off in extra weight carried. The P-47's bomb load also seems to be better for smaller targets than the P-38.

 

 As to which one can soak up more damage...???

 

All up I just need more stick time on all of them and we will see what the final release offers up as all of them are effectively still in beta, albeit a very high quality beta  

 

 

 

Edited October 9, 2019 by Pict
Spelling, tweaking etc.