4K video through the lens DCS of PImax new headsets

[blitze]

SweViver has posted up some video footage of the up coming headsets from Pimax using DCS in cockpit filming.  It's not Il2 but gives an idea of clarity of cockpit systems with both the 8K-X and 8K+.

The video is shot at 4K 60Hz.

 

https://forum.pimaxvr.com/t/8kx-through-the-lens-in-dcs-4k-video-clip/22559/95

 

For those looking for VR fidelity. He also stipulated the settings so those Pimax owners looking to upgrade can replicate the settings of the video with their current headsets to see respective performance of their computers at the same SS target Resolution.

 

Big thanks to SweViver for this. ?

[chiliwili69]

I have seen the both videos in 4K monitor and the 8KX view and detail is quite nice, much superior to the 8K+.

Surprisingly Sweviver claims that the image on the 8K+ is still superior to the Reverb, which I doubt. 

 

In fact, the real resolution of the 8K+ is 2560x1440 per eye, which is the same than the Pimax5K+ (which I tested) but displayed in a 3840x2160 display (so less SDE).

Just doing simplified maths (assuming same rendered FOVs than Pimax5K+, assuming full panel utilization and linear distribution):

 

Reverb resolution per eye 2160x2160 over a smaller FOV per eye (90.2ºV, 91ºH), so 2160/90.2=23.9 PixelPerDegree Vertical and 23.7 PPD Horizontal.

Pimax8K+ resolution per eye 2560x1440 over a FOV(normal) per eye(103.6ºV, 113.5ºH), so 1440/103.6=13.9 PPD Vertical and 2560/113.5=22.5 PPD Horizontal

 

With the Pimax8KX is another story:

Pimax8KX resolution per eye 3840x2160 over a FOV(normal) per eye(103.6ºV, 113.5ºH), so 2160/103.6=20.8 PPD Vertical and 3840/113.5=33.8 PPD Horizontal

 

It would be nice if Sweviver can take some DSLR pictures of the 8KX versus Reverb for IL-2. 

 

Here I leave some pictures of Reverb vs Pimax5K+, so with the Pimax8K+ you will see same detail but with less SDE.:

 

Reverb:

 

Pimax5K+:

 

 

Reverb(top) vs Pimax5K+(bottom):

Edited October 11, 2019 by chiliwili69

[blitze]

8K+, depends on how they are upscaling the image.  Def less screen door if at all.

[SCG_Fenris_Wolf]

The new upscaler is interesting. Visit VRDays in November to test the headsets. There's allegedly no visible SDE anymore, and the upscaler works similar to a diffusor, so you can get native anti-aliasing without performance cost.

 

The PPI calculations are wrong Chili, as pixels are derived from the panel resolution, not the signal resolution. Wether the picture will look a bit blurry like an Odyssey+ with higher resolution and increased FOV, is another story.

 

Also, the vertical FOV per eye is higher on the Pimax, it's not merely 103°. You didn't use false values in the past, and this is not a Console war of Nintendo vs Playstation, of Index vs Pimax, I must remind you.?

 

Edited October 8, 2019 by SCG_Fenris_Wolf

[chiliwili69]

On 10/8/2019 at 1:20 PM, SCG_Fenris_Wolf said:

The PPI calculations are wrong Chili, as pixels are derived from the panel resolution, not the signal resolution. Wether the picture will look a bit blurry like an Odyssey+ with higher resolution and increased FOV, is another story.

 

Also, the vertical FOV per eye is higher on the Pimax, it's not merely 103°. You didn't use false values in the past, and this is not a Console war of Nintendo vs Playstation, of Index vs Pimax, I must remind you.?

 

I used the signal resolution (not the panel) since this is what it will be displayed after all in the panel. 

Bringing this to a TV/monitor example, you can watch a 360p movie in a 4K TV, so you will see the same detail than in a 360p TV. So, for details it is the signal what matters.

Another thing is the SDE, you will see much less SDE in the 8K+ than in the 5K+.

 

Regarding the vertical FOV of the Pimax I extracted those values from the rendered FOV, which is the maximum reachable:

https://forum.pimaxvr.com/t/all-the-different-fovs-of-pimax-5k/16053

 

I was just pointing out that Sweviver was not being objective with his comment about 8K+ and Reverb. (he is a Pimax guy now, so be cautious)

Edited October 11, 2019 by chiliwili69

[HogMenTheHog107]

chiliwili69 - I see your point on PPD. However,  I don't feel showing pics of the pimax 5k and the reverb is a honest way to compare a updated 8K+.  Well have to wait to get our hands on it, but it sounds like improved panels and upscaler.  I doubt the 5K panels compete with it anymore. 

[SCG_Fenris_Wolf]

3 hours ago, chiliwili69 said:

 

I used the signal resolution (not the panel) since this is what it will be displayed after all in the panel. 

Bringing this to a TV/monitor example, you can watch a 360p movie in a 4K TV, so you will see the same detail than in a 360p TV. So, for details it is the signal what matters.

Another thing is the SDE, you will see much less SDE in the 8K+ than in the 5K+.

 

Regarding the vertical FOV of the Pimax I extracted those values from the rendered FOV, which is the maximum reachable:

https://forum.pimaxvr.com/t/all-the-different-fovs-of-pimax-5k/16053

The comparison is a long stretch. 4K to 360p. You better compare it to a 4K with a 1440p signal. Even on my 65" 4K LG C8 OLED TV the difference is hardly visible there. The upscaler is so good on it. P.S. They said, no SDE on the 8K+. So do the reviewers who have tested it. The thing will release very soon. I may just go to check it out on VRDays or at MRTV's HQ as soon as he gets the updated version.

 

Risa2000 is notorious for spouting bs. His testing hasn't been reproduced by anyone. I've been in the FOV test and what he says is simply false. He must have done something wrong on the readouts, he himself stated the GetProjectionRaw was bugged. It looks like it is missing canted degrees. I got 10° more both on vertical and on horizontal. Hence, I wouldn't quote the guy.

Edited October 8, 2019 by SCG_Fenris_Wolf

[blitze]

The Pimax forum now has guess the Headset Macro Shots which include the HP and Valve headsets.  Be interesting to know exactly which is which, of which I am sure Martin will let us know soon enough.

 

On another note, received my Ryzen 3900X build today.  Aside from having to remount the Power Supply to enable clearance for the RTX 2080 I was throwing into it, it was pretty straight forward.  On initial testing with the 8K the 3900X just yawns at Il2.  Foreated Rendering is also much more stable on it compared to before.  Had only 2 crashes an a few hours of testing.

 

Sadly, even at PiTool 1.5 SteamVR 100%, the current build of Il2 is a blurry experience.  Clouds are also still quite a fps stealer.  Not that they need to de res the clouds and pixelate them but more so tweak the Volume Density of the clouds rendered.  Sure there must be a way for them to have pretty clouds without bringing our cards to their knees.

 

Was hoping Il2 would scale up to utilise the extra cores but - no.  Still at least the CPU isn't being hammered like my old i7 7700HQ was.

[chiliwili69]

On 10/8/2019 at 7:00 PM, HogMenTheHog107 said:

I don't feel showing pics of the pimax 5k and the reverb is a honest way to compare a updated 8K+.

 

I was putting those pics as an example on the level of detail you will get with a 2560x1440 signal spreaded over the PimaxFOV (FOV of 8K+ and 5K+ are indentical) versus a signal of 2160x2160 spreaded over the Reverb FOV. So, the level of detail you will get with the Pimax5K+ and Pîmax8K+ will be identical since both have the same resolution.

The only thing that it will be improved will be the SDE, but I was already indicating that when putting the pictures. So I think it is quite honest.

 

It will be honest as well that Sweviver (who has Pimax8K+ and Reverb) put some facts (pictures) on the table and less words.

 

With all of that, I love the Pimax guys. They are pulling from the VR ship and bringing leading edge tech to the domestic market, what is fabulous. But they can not make false statements.

On 10/8/2019 at 9:27 PM, SCG_Fenris_Wolf said:

The comparison is a long stretch. 4K to 360p. You better compare it to a 4K with a 1440p signal. Even on my 65" 4K LG C8 OLED TV the difference is hardly visible there. The upscaler is so good on it. P.S.

 

AS said before, what it matters for the detail is the signal resolution. I was putting the 360p just as an extreme example. My overall point is that "in terms of resolution accuity" the Reverb wins over the 8K+ (Sweviver made a false claim, which is not good for him and Pimax) .You can not prove the opposite with the data we have.

 

Regardeless of the right FOV of Pimax, if you increase even more the FOV you have less and less PPD. My point was that the REverb has better PPD vertically and horizontally than 8K+. Period.

Edited October 11, 2019 by chiliwili69

[SCG_Fenris_Wolf]

Yeah, I get these points. But I cannot find the comment he allegedly made a claim that the 8K+ had better resolution accuity. So where did he make that false claim?

 

 

Of course the Reverb has the highest PPI right now, and it may retain that even with the 8KX. But the smaller than even gen-1 FOV is a sacrifice too high for me. That is why I could not keep it. I am certain quite a few people don't mind that though and are happy with it. It has a ton of advantages too, especially since its connector has been fixed.

[chiliwili69]

On 10/9/2019 at 11:28 AM, SCG_Fenris_Wolf said:

But I cannot find the comment he allegedly made a claim that the 8K+ had better resolution accuity. So where did he make that false claim?

 

Fenris, you are absolutely right here. Sweviver didn´t say that the 8K+ has better resolution than Reverb. It was just my fault when quickly reading the below paragraph:

 

"And well, while 8K+ looks identical in terms of SDE and already better than HP, the difference in clarity between 8KX and 8K+ is bigger than u might imagine.
Simply everything in the cockpit is fully readable from a sitting position and height"

 

He was only referring to the SDE, not to the clarity. Sorry Sweviver from here, you were not saying a false claim. I apologize.

Will correct above posts.

 

[SCG_Fenris_Wolf]

It's okay, it takes a great man to admit such a thing.

 

By the way, I do agree his messages are often very enthusiastic. Remaining sceptic is a good path and saves from the all-encompassing marketing hype nowadays.

 

Nothing but respect for you

[Rei-sen]

I wish 8KX has a better resolution. I'm not going to deal with wmr anymore and Pimax looks like the best option at this moment. 

[SCG_Fenris_Wolf]

4 hours ago, Arthur-A said:

I wish 8KX has a better resolution. I'm not going to deal with wmr anymore and Pimax looks like the best option at this moment. 

The 8KX has

2* 3840*2160 = 16,588,800 pixels, with 3 subpixels each.

 

The RTX2080ti, overclocked in the Mad Max universe, barely does that. Even good quality DP cables cannot transport the signal. You can't compress it either (latency).

 

So, with the RTX3080Ti around the corner, there'll soon be a good card to feed this at speed ?

Edited October 12, 2019 by SCG_Fenris_Wolf

[SR-F_Winger]

On 10/12/2019 at 9:34 PM, SCG_Fenris_Wolf said:

The 8KX has

2* 3840*2160 = 16,588,800 pixels, with 3 subpixels each.

 

The RTX2080ti, overclocked in the Mad Max universe, barely does that. Even good quality DP cables cannot transport the signal. You can't compress it either (latency).

 

So, with the RTX3080Ti around the corner, there'll soon be a good card to feed this at speed ?

If they manage to get that eyetracking and FOVeated rendering to work properly it might work with a 2080ti.