Spitfire IX loss of vertical stabilizer

[VBF-12_Stick-95]

Date: 10/4/19 at ~2200 EDT

Server: Combat Box

Map: Rhineland, clear, few clouds

Aircraft:  Spitfire IX, clipped wing, mirror, full fuel

Issue:  Loss of vertical stabilizer

 

Details:

Sortie 1 (8 minutes):  Took off and climbed.  While flying just at the cloud base I noticed my plane would not turn properly and would nose up regardless of rudder input.  Entered a spin that I could not recover from.  After bailing I noticed the vertical stabilizer was missing.  I thought maybe the canopy hit it when bailing.

http://combatbox.net/en/sortie/log/107243/?tour=14

 

Sortie 2 (12 minutes):  Took off and climbed.  Just when I reached the cloud base I checked my six and saw the vertical stabilizer break off and fall away.  Had to bail.

http://combatbox.net/en/sortie/log/107286/?tour=14

 

Sortie 3 (1 minute):  Took off and climbed.  Anticipating that the cloud base may have something to do with the issue, I thought I would see if I could replicate it.  I was not even close to the clouds when shortly after takeoff, again, the vertical stabilizer broke off and had to bail.

http://combatbox.net/en/sortie/log/107330/?tour=14

 

Sortie 4 (16 minutes):  Took off and climbed.  This time I was determined to document the issue so I started a track.  Flew at all altitudes, through clouds, etc. without anything happening.

http://combatbox.net/en/sortie/log/107351/?tour=14

Although nothing happened and this mission ended In-flight, it indicates 100% damage.

 

In all cases the loss of the vertical stabilizer registered as 53% damage.

 

Other info:  During all of these sorties the plane was never in a high speed dive, most of the time I was in level flight or climbing.  It is possible the engine was in combat mode.

 

Edited October 5, 2019 by VBF-12_Stick-95

[VBF-12_Stick-95]

Another day... another stabilizer.

 

Date: 10/5/19 at ~2230 EDT

Server: Combat Box

Map: Kuban, clear, medium clouds

Aircraft:  Spitfire IX, clipped wing, mirror, full fuel

Issue:  Loss of vertical stabilizer

 

There may be a track of this from a squad member that witnessed it.  If there is I'll post it.

 

Note:  It has not happened to me on sp which I have tested quite a bit.

 

Link to sortie:

http://combatbox.net/en/sortie/log/109927/?tour=14

 

 

 

 

Edited October 6, 2019 by VBF-12_Stick-95

[Jizzo]

Don't you worry about a thing there, Stick. 

 

You are now, just officially a participant of the Spitfire clipped-stabilizer trials, that's all!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[VBF-12_Stick-95]

9 minutes ago, Jizzo said:

Don't you worry about a thing there, Stick. 

 

You are now, just officially a participant of the Spitfire clipped-stabilizer trials, that's all!

 

 

 

Well the trails can stop anytime as they aren't working out too well.

[=EXPEND=13SchwarzeHand]

Same thing happening with the 262 constant loss of vertical stab

Edited October 6, 2019 by =EXPEND=13SchwarzeHand

[VBF-12_Stick-95]

Have a track.  This is taken from another plane.  Going to the first friendly aircraft (LShift-F2) should put you on my Spit.

 

Download link:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Ff-nExrmJSKjyHiee4i07OytIRs2XCtH/view

 

At 8:06 there are a couple of wingtip vortices for what it is worth:

 

At 8:46 the stabilizer comes off:

 

[Matt]

You're flying a P-51 in that track you uploaded.

[VBF-12_Stick-95]

1 hour ago, Matt said:

You're flying a P-51 in that track you uploaded.

 

 

3 hours ago, VBF-12_Stick-95 said:

Have a track.  This is taken from another plane.  Going to the first friendly aircraft (LShift-F2) should put you on my Spit.

 

Going to me closer to 7:00 - 8:00 on the track will jump to me as the first friendly.  Not the first at the beginning of the track.

 

Edited October 6, 2019 by VBF-12_Stick-95

[VBF-12_Stick-95]

Date: 10/11/19 at ~2200 EDT

Server: Combat Box

Map: Rhineland, clear, few clouds

Aircraft:  Spitfire IX, standard wing, mirror, full fuel

Issue:  Loss of vertical stabilizer

 

Details:

While taking off the vertical stabilizer broke off.  About 8 seconds into the track.

 

Link to track:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/xgzpugaqz35ioxv/Tracks.zip?dl=0

[VBF-12_Stick-95]

Am I the only one with this issue?  This is consistent regardless of server and only relates to this plane. Only happens in mp.   Unfortunately it is one of my fave planes.

[VBF-12_Stick-95]

Hey guess what??!!  It's still doing it.  Friggin PITA.

[VBF-12_Stick-95]

v4.001 did not solve the issue.

[Poochnboo]

Ah, so it wasn't just me, eh? Two nights ago I was flying a single mission and might have dived down through clouds a bit too fast. Actually, the airplane was flying just fine when I leveled out, but I decided to to do an external view because sometimes I just like looking at the airplane. I had no verticle fin or rudder!

On 10/19/2019 at 9:36 AM, VBF-12_Stick-95 said:

Only happens in mp

No.

[VBF-12_Stick-95]

 

3 hours ago, Poochnboo said:

Ah, so it wasn't just me, eh? Two nights ago I was flying a single mission and might have dived down through clouds a bit too fast. Actually, the airplane was flying just fine when I leveled out, but I decided to to do an external view because sometimes I just like looking at the airplane. I had no verticle fin or rudder!

 

 

@Poochnboo,  You sir are a welcome voice in the darkness!  Very interesting that it's also happening in sp.  This has been driving me nuts because no one else seems to have it, so I have been searching for a "local" cause but nothing made sense.  Sorry to say but it is true that misery LOVES company.  It is also the only plane that I have experienced this with.

 

Please try to capture that on a track and post it here so the devs can see it.  Maybe that will help them find the cause or at least acknowledge it.

[Poochnboo]

9 minutes ago, VBF-12_Stick-95 said:

It is also the only plane that I have experienced this with.

Ah yes. I forgot to mention the airplane that I was flying. It was the Spitfire MK5.

[VBF-12_Stick-95]

A MkV eh?  I haven't been flying the V since the IX came out so I would not have noticed.

[bzc3lk]

5 minutes ago, VBF-12_Stick-95 said:

A MkV eh?  I haven't been flying the V since the IX came out so I would not have noticed.

 

It is not only a Spitfire anomaly.  I had the same experience in SP while flying an Fw190 A8, came out of a dive from 4000 meters , maximum speed 800 km/h and presto no vertical stab or rudder. The aircraft flew normally like the vertical appendage was still there.

[Poochnboo]

Well, now I'm thinking that I was mistaken about it having happened in the 5. I just went in to duplicate the situation with the Mark5. No matter what I did, I couldn't get it to happen. But I jumped into the Spit 9 (standard wing), and did a spin. Off went my fin and rudder! I didn't even do anything all that violent. I fly the Spit 9 a lot, and I believe this is something new. I would have seen this before. Think a fix is needed here.

Edited November 8, 2019 by Poochnboo

[VBF-12_Stick-95]

Please zip a track and post here. 

 

BTW, As I mention in a post above I have had the vertical stabilizer come off while taking off still on the runway.

 

Edited November 8, 2019 by VBF-12_Stick-95

[Poochnboo]

21 minutes ago, VBF-12_Stick-95 said:

BTW, As I mention in a post above I have had the vertical stabilizer come off while taking off still on the runway.

 

Oh, damn. Now it's sounding like some Nazi saboteurs at the Supermarine factory!

Well, I don't know. Now I can't get it to happen. I just took the Spitfire up over the Kuban map and wrung 'er out. Climbed and then dove straight down and blacked out as I pulled back the stick. "Yeah...that should do it!" Nope.

Looped, spun, and did very quick and violent snap rolls that I thought for sure would make the tail assembly seperate from the airframe. Still there.

If it doesnt happen to the devs when they test it, it's gonna be hard to fix. 

[CUJO_1970]

Loss of vertical stabilizer is not exclusive to Spitfire.

 

The vertical stabilizer and elevators with 109K4 and FW190A-8 simply fall off the plane for no reason - I have had this happen multiple times online with the 109K and with 190A-8 offline. No damage from flak or fire needed - it just falls off in flight.

 

Problem continues after 4.001 update. Problem persists both online and offline.

[VBF-12_Stick-95]

16 minutes ago, CUJO_1970 said:

Loss of vertical stabilizer is not exclusive to Spitfire.

 

The vertical stabilizer and elevators with 109K4 and FW190A-8 simply fall off the plane for no reason - I have had this happen multiple times online with the 109K and with 190A-8 offline. No damage from flak or fire needed - it just falls off in flight.

 

Problem continues after 4.001 update. Problem persists both online and offline.

 

Thanks CUJO.  We need tracks.  Try to remember when flying.  I think this will take more evidence than mine.

 

[CUJO_1970]

I have tracks and screens of all of it. The vertical stabilizer and elevators just fall off for no reason, plane spins out of control, game over.

[VBF-12_Stick-95]

9 hours ago, CUJO_1970 said:

I have tracks and screens of all of it. The vertical stabilizer and elevators just fall off for no reason, plane spins out of control, game over.

 

If the tracks work with the latest version can you post them here?

[Waldo_Pee]

10 minutes ago, Waldo_Pee said:

I have this too.. Thought I was going mad ! At first thought I must have been overstressing the plane but then after the 5th or so times realise must be bug when flying straight and level also. Happens on FW190 A3 and 109's. Have found a pattern normally happens after switching off level autopilot after long flight. Most frustrating!! Hope someone looks into this. 

Many thanks for Il2 in general though!! superb sim! 

Happens in single player.

Has not happened yet in 4.001b though

Edited November 9, 2019 by Waldo_Pee

[FTC_Riksen]

#meToo

[CUJO_1970]

Here it is offline with FW190A-8:

 

 

 

 

 

 

[VBF-12_Stick-95]

Looks like the exact same location as the Spit IX.

[CUJO_1970]

On 109 it's even more severe: a loss of vertical stab along with elevators:

 

[VBF-12_Stick-95]

Was this sp?  Were you involved with any enemy or just flying?

[VBF-12_Stick-95]

Good news from devs:

 

DD 235:

Quote

We also have managed to find the cause of the random bug some of you have reported, when some planes suddenly lose their rudders in the flight. It turns out this issue is caused by the signal noise in some joystick controllers. Such noise spikes in the input cause the control surfaces in the sim to turn so sharply that their durability limit is exceeded and they are torn off by the ram air. This means that fixing this particular bug is no trivial matter - on one hand, we need to keep the durability limit of the control surfaces realistic while on another we don't want to add a new layer of filtering for the joystick axes input we have minimized so recently before. This is a very fine work involving re-checking every plane control behavior, but our engineers have done it and we plan to include its result in the next update as well.

 

[CUJO_1970]

Very interesting. Glad they isolated it, signal noise from the joystick - I'm using Logitech Extreme 3D Pro, considering switch to VKB.

 

Sim is basically unplayable for me right now. Hope it gets sorted soon.

[wombatBritishBulldogs]

Might be worth adding the  type of joystick used by the people having issues !

[VBF-12_Stick-95]

There is something that might help some people.  In the game under Settings\Input Devices on the right side under Joystick, the top selection is Noise Filter.  This runs from 0 to 1 in one hundredth increments.  I assume this filters out signal spikes from inputs.  I know someone that tested it at max and said it delayed processing of changes in direction way too much.  His is now set at .2.

 

So if you are having issues I suggest testing at various settings and see if it helps, it certainly can't  hurt.

[CUJO_1970]

This could also be an issue with older sticks with calibration/software issues. My 10 year old (seriously) Extreme 3d Pro started having issues with rudder/elevator, so that finally after so long I no longer could get it properly calibrated.

 

Since that stick is so cheap, yet so damn good I ordered another one off Amazon and had it delivered the next day. Deleted the old/set up new stick (basically it's plug and play) and so far have not had any more issues.

[VBF-12_Stick-95]

I thought I had this temporarily in check through various changes I made but alas the Spit IX rudder fell off again last night.

[VBF-12_Stick-95]

Another instance of Spitfire stabilizers falling off.