Any chance in Lagg against Bf.109?

[[RG]Flanker1985]

Hi guys, how do you guys manage to survive in a Lagg?  I've tried head-on (perhaps your best bet), scissors, turning as hard as I could towards the 109, but they always seem to get me.  If by any chance I manage to get them to overshoot, they just fly upwards where I have no chance of catching them.

 

It does not help that they tend to get you when you're lower and without speed, because you just took off...  and that's when we're not still on the runway!  I even asked if we could at least take off, and one nice 109 guy (gal?) said "no"!  Oh well, I guess I just need to rant, but even though I'm a fairly lousy pilot, I just can't hop in a 109 when they are already at 4 against 2, and Laggs are most of the time outnumbered.  What's more frustrating is that many (most!) of those 109 are much better pilots, so it's unfair squared...  I don't mind getting shot 5 to 1, but 15-1 is pretty much where it's at and it's not so much fun anymore!

 

So... anyone knows what to do against a 109 that's coming at you faster, higher???

 

(and if it's not faster, higher, to start with, it's not long before it becomes, since the engine is sooo much more powerful...)

 

 

That's what I was thinking about. My suggestion is:

After the game is finished, the first addition plane add on should be LaGG-3 Series 35 and La-5F

That's going to solve the balance issue.

 

[Finkeren]

That's what I was thinking about. My suggestion is:

After the game is finished, the first addition plane add on should be LaGG-3 Series 35 and La-5F

That's going to solve the balance issue.

Assuming, that we're staying above Stalingrad for the first addon, I can get behind the LaGG s.35, but the La-5F would be out of place.

 

I-16, Yak-7B and Yak-1B/9 would all be more likely candidates for a new VVS fighter.

[[RG]Flanker1985]

Assuming, that we're staying above Stalingrad for the first addon, I can get behind the LaGG s.35, but the La-5F would be out of place.

 

I-16, Yak-7B and Yak-1B/9 would all be more likely candidates for a new VVS fighter.

 

Really? I thought the La-5F started in Winter 42/43 counter-attacks in operation Uranus.

And I agree with you, Yak-1B will also make an excellent addition, especially for Yakvlov series players.

 

Also, what do you think about Hurricane, I mean the Soviet modified version. It will also make a good multirole attacker plane in the BOS.

Edited April 8, 2014 by HarbingerFlanker1985

[Finkeren]

Really? I thought the La-5F started in Winter 42/43 counter-attacks in operation Uranus.

And I agree with you, Yak-1B will also make an excellent addition, especially for Yakvlov series players.

 

Also, what do you think about Hurricane, I mean the Soviet modified version. It will also make a good multirole attacker plane in the BOS.

I read somewhere, that the decree to begin the development of a lightened La-5 with the Ash-82F engine and cut-down rear fuselage was only issued in the first half of December '42, so really doubt that they would have La-5Fs in service in time for Stalingrad.

 

Don't know if there were any Hurricanes at Stalingrad, but in any case they would've been few in number and apparently weren't held in high regard by the VVS pilots. As for the P-39/40, that might be a better idea.

[Finkeren]

Btw: If you feel like an underdog in the LaGG right now, imagine how you'll feel in a Hurri with low grade Soviet fuel.

[[RG]Flanker1985]

Btw: If you feel like an underdog in the LaGG right now, imagine how you'll feel in a Hurri with low grade Soviet fuel.

 

Oh, I didn't actually mean to use Hurricane as a fighter but and attacker like the IL-2.

One of the issue about the LaGG at the moment is that you will bleed a lot of speed in a defensive maneuver. Every time when a 109 approach me from above, he will most likely use the high altitude as an advantage and go into an dive. That that point have to do certain defensive maneuver to dodge the fire. Afterward I won't have much speed left. And the 109 will use the speed built up in that dive to out clime me. And by the time I recovered by speed, the 109 will be in position for another dive. So once I end up in this position, it is very much competing our fuel reserve. I can keep dodge it until one of us ran out of fuel. But I won't never get a chance to shoot back.

That is why I am so keen on the S35, because of the front flap. I would be able to maneuver faster with less speed bleed.

La-5 is good too, but if you sit in a La-5, you will want to be in the La-5F due to the new bubble cockpit    Where you have a 360 degree vision. 

 

Also, by the way, you seems to be a more experienced pilot than I am. Do you have any better ways to deal with the German planes? Please share 

[Matt]

Yak-9 would be a good addition imho.

 

As of right now, i think you only have a chance against a 109 if you have sustantial energy advantage and if the 109 can't dive away to compensate. Or if the 109 decides to not use the vertical.

 

So overall, if the pilot skill is in your favor. I prefer flying LaGG in current MP though. But i don't think i would take a LaGG over a Yak when the latter makes it into MP, even though the LaGGs armament is imho clearly superior.

[Finkeren]

Also, by the way, you seems to be a more experienced pilot than I am. Do you have any better ways to deal with the German planes? Please share

Nothing beyond my initial post in this thread. The LaGG is the underdog is close to every aspect, but that doesn't mean that you can't win, if you fly smarter than your opponent.

 

Btw: I am by no means a crack pilot. I'm fairly good at playing the energy game, but I'm a terrible shot (partly due to my less-than-stellar X-52 stick) and have sub-par situational awareness, so I'm far from succesful in MP.

 

The Yak is gonna be another story. It will force the 109 jockeys to play to their aircrafts strength or die. The Yaks handling and performance favors the low n' dirty "airquake" furball that dominate MP right now. There's no question that the 109 will still have the upper hand when flown right , but if he plays the Yaks game, Fritz is gonna be sorry.

Edited April 8, 2014 by Finkeren

[[RG]Flanker1985]

I know Yak is better in earlier war than La. Unfortunately for me, I have been playing La series fighters since the beginning of the IL-2 game. I kind of get attached to it. Lavochkin has kind of became a signature for me in WW2 flight sim 
That is why I am very keen on Las.
The trick it to get 109 to slow down. If it ended up in a turn fight with me, he will be dead. But the problem is non of them are stupid enough to slow down 

By the way, we need to play together sometimes, mate. 
What's your signature fighter series in WW2, not just BOS?

[Finkeren]

Well, you might just ready yourself for a bit of disappointment, when we get the La-5. It'll be a very early production model (something like series 4 or 6) with an underperforming Ash-82, gravity fed carbeurator (meaning it most likely can't do negative Gs or inverted flight without starving the engine) and a very heavy construction. It's gonna be a step up in most aspects from the LaGG, but not by much. Overall performance will likely be slightly improved, the twin ShVAKs will be awesome (though ammunition will be limited compared to later models) and low speed handling might be somewhat easier. However, I expect, that it will still be kinda tricky (if very interesting) to fly, bleed energy just as bad as the LaGG, climb only slightly better and have slow acceleration. It will be an awesome bomber killer to be sure, with great survivability, but for a dogfight, I'd still bring the Yak.

 

Not quite sure, what you mean by "What's your signature fighter series in WW2, not just BOS?". If you're refering to my callsign, I'm nearly always "Finkeren", except for Steam games.

Edited April 8, 2014 by Finkeren

[LLv34_Flanker]

S!

 

 There was a mention in Gordon -Khazanov book about the early La-5's engaging in combat over Stalingrad. They had to be escorted by Yak-fighters due their dissapointing performance. Bf109F-4 and Bf109G-2 proved to be better than the La-5 at all altitudes. The dual-20mm sure will hurt if get caught in front of that, so better beware :D

[[RG]Flanker1985]

Well, you might just ready yourself for a bit of disappointment, when we get the La-5. It'll be a very early production model (something like series 4 or 6) with an underperforming Ash-82, gravity fed carbeurator (meaning it most likely can't do negative Gs or inverted flight without starving the engine) and a very heavy construction. It's gonna be a step up in most aspects from the LaGG, but not by much. Overall performance will likely be slightly improved, the twin ShVAKs will be awesome (though ammunition will be limited compared to later models) and low speed handling might be somewhat easier. However, I expect, that it will still be kinda tricky (if very interesting) to fly, bleed energy just as bad as the LaGG, climb only slightly better and have slow acceleration. It will be an awesome bomber killer to be sure, with great survivability, but for a dogfight, I'd still bring the Yak.

 

Not quite sure, what you mean by "What's your signature fighter series in WW2, not just BOS?". If you're refering to my callsign, I'm nearly always "Finkeren", except for Steam games.

 

I mean if you have to choose 1 series or 1 brand of plane to represent you, which will be? 

Also, since you said "It's gonna be a step up in most aspects from the LaGG", that is still good enough for me. I just got my eyes on front flaps.

[Finkeren]

The slats are gonna be ok for taking pot shots in a turn fight at high deflection, but they won't help you conserve energy, and that's what you really wanna do as a Lavochkin pilot. In MP I often find, that 420 km/h in maneuvering speed is the line that marks the difference between being hunter and prey in the LaGG.

 

As for my favourite plane, it might be the Pe-2 or Tu-2, but if we're talking fighters the La-5FN is mighty sexy.

[Volkoff]

Btw: If you feel like an underdog in the LaGG right now, imagine how you'll feel in a Hurri with low grade Soviet fuel.

I have imagined that scenario and that scenario is why I support the P-40 Tomahawk IIb as our first lend lease plane for BOS.

 

MJ

[ShamrockOneFive]

I think if we're going to see the later models of aircraft we'll have to wait and see what they have in store for future development. A Kuban or Kursk scenario would open the door to the La-5F or early FN model as well as Yak-9 and 9T, the P-40, P-39, etc. For the German side we'd see later models of the FW190 (A-4, A-5, early F and G perhaps) and Bf109 not to mention all of the attack aircraft that could be interesting in here... I'm still holding out hope that one day we'll see a sim with a Ju88C-6a.

 

For additional Stalingrad types the Yak-1B, Yak-7B and I-16 would probably be high on the list. Not forgetting the MC.200 or MC.202 and IAR80/81 for the Axis side as a possibility as well.

Edited April 9, 2014 by IceFire

[Jaws2002]

I have imagined that scenario and that scenario is why I support the P-40 Tomahawk IIb as our first lend lease plane for BOS.

 

MJ

You should vote for the hurri, so my IAR-80/81 has a chance.

[[RG]Flanker1985]

The slats are gonna be ok for taking pot shots in a turn fight at high deflection, but they won't help you conserve energy, and that's what you really wanna do as a Lavochkin pilot. In MP I often find, that 420 km/h in maneuvering speed is the line that marks the difference between being hunter and prey in the LaGG.

 

As for my favourite plane, it might be the Pe-2 or Tu-2, but if we're talking fighters the La-5FN is mighty sexy.

 

 

What's about the battlefield? If they are not going to be constraint in Stalingrad in the next add on, which one do you prefer?

I hope we can have the a battle in autumn 1944. Because that was the starting point of the La-7. Like the liberation of the Belarus, or the liberation of Poland, or the fall of Berlin is even better 

[[RG]Flanker1985]

As for my favourite plane, it might be the Pe-2 or Tu-2, but if we're talking fighters the La-5FN is mighty sexy.

 

By the way, since you love Pe-2 and Tu-2. Want to support me in this post?? 

http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/7-questions-developers/page-11?do=findComment&comment=39778

 

Just get to that page and have a look at entry #440 

[Volkoff]

You should vote for the hurri, so my IAR-80/81 has a chance.

 Ha! Not a chance, Jaws!   I did vote for the IAR-80/ 81, though.    Still, I wish there was a IAR-80 and a Macchi C. 202  option. I feel for the Macchi C. 202 crowd. I would love a Mig-3 and BF-109 Emil in BOS, even though the Mig-3 and Emil would better fit another map, just as the Macchi C. 202 would better fit another map. At least we may get a IAR-80/ 81 and a P-40 Tomahawk IIb, with any luck. 

 

MJ

Edited April 10, 2014 by =69.GIAP=MIKHA

[IVJG4-Knight]

I just wonder if a 109 pilot can really feel pride in his kills (apart from newcomers to the genre). It is so ridiculously easy to kill a Lagg 3 in it that I simply refuse to fly it. If you're frustrated I suggest:

 

Take a break from MP and play quick mission. The ai is no big deal even if it sits in a 109. 

 

a kill against a 109 in a Lagg is 15 times worthier than a kill against a Lagg 3 in a 109. So your kill ratio is perfectly ok.

 

1.Can a pilot that has better hardware(warthog mfg crosswind, tir etc etc) take pride in his kills vs a pilot with cheap hardware ( a cheap joystick and nothing else) ?

2.Can a pilot take pride in killing 109g6s with a spit 9 that is superiour in every way(speed , weapons , turn , climb) ? Or killing any german plane with spit mk 14, tempest  ?

3.Can a pilot take pride in killing another plane when flying with a whole squadron of friends(i seen online 7 vs 1 "duels")  ?

 

I complained about pt 3 a few times but i was wrong to do so.

[Panzerlang]

Even Eric Hartmann was shot down. I think many people believe the myth that a pilot can be so superb that nothing can touch him, ever. The truth is, I suggest, that one can be so good as to significantly reduce his exposure to danger and be such a good shot that he hits more often than he misses, but the ultimate decider is luck. The law of probability dictates that there will be a minority that survive to the end no matter the odds.

[IVJG4-Knight]

@Siggi.

 

1.Eic Hartman was never shot down.He just colided into the pieces of planes he shot at and distroyed his engine forcing him to crash land.But he never became another pilot's victory.

2.In any sim it's never going to be like it was in WW2 in real life.

3.I admit i complain too.But it's wrong .

Edited April 10, 2014 by IVJG4-Knight

[IVJG4-Knight]

"they shot enemy planes from so close that debris from his target would damage the plane"

 

Man i hate when that happens.Last night i shot a p39 in the engine and when pulling up to avoid a colission the poor p39 exploded and killed my pilot  :D .I'm laughing now but was not so funny atm.

Edited April 10, 2014 by IVJG4-Knight

[71st_AH_Cujo]

I've noticed that down on the deck experienced LAGG pilots can make you sweat when you turn and burn with them, but if you choose to fight the energy fight and use 109 climbing and speed superiority its almost unfair. Lagg has no chance at all.

[t4trouble]

 

 

I've noticed that down on the deck experienced LAGG pilots can make you sweat when you turn and burn with them, but if you choose to fight the energy fight and use 109 climbing and speed superiority its almost unfair. Lagg has no chance at all.

 

True, if you fly the 109 with proper combat climb it can attack at will, pretty much untouchable.Don't forget that all the laggs online are flying around with full rpm and throttle all day if they want, no CEM 

temperature effects not like the 109 which has.So expect a even worse performance out of the lagg when its implemented ? 

[flying_sorcerer]

I've noticed that down on the deck experienced LAGG pilots can make you sweat when you turn and burn with them, but if you choose to fight the energy fight and use 109 climbing and speed superiority its almost unfair. Lagg has no chance at all.

 

I certainly had none the other day, whatever the altitude, against you :-)

[t4trouble]

I think you miss read my post, what you say is true.

 

 

 laggs online are flying around with full rpm and throttle all day if they want, no CEM 

temperature effects.So expect a even worse performance out of the lagg when its implemented ? 

 

Try the same with the 109 full throttle and rpm.

[Phant0m]

The lagg doesn't really have any worthwhile advantage to leverage, but it isn't hopelessly outmatched and it does fairly well for me, the biggest problems it faces is being outnumbered and being caught, frequently, with an energy disadvantage. This is a cyclic relationship: Laggs at a disadvantage, get shot down - 109's get a solid, local air superiority and lagg pilots might get bored and not climb as high next time.

 

1 on 1, a lagg can hold off a 109 for a very long time - as long as there is about 1.5km of air under the wings to help maintain speed. The real trick for the lagg is to not let the fight become a circular turn fight - after a couple of rotations, the 109 will be saddled up nicely on a low E lagg.  If a 109 saddles up behind you, your only option is to scissor while if the reverse happens, the 109 does have an extra option or two.

 

You don't have much ammo in the lagg but you can't afford to be miserly with it. You need to spray it out in front of the 109 after it makes its BnZ run, you need to let them know that they are in very real danger and after practise - you hit fairly often. Also shoot at them if they are extending away in a fairly straight line - not impossible to take them down from about 600m away.

[FuriousMeow]

I seriously doubt the LaGG will be all that capable when caught alone, perhaps the best hope is to last as long as possible until other aircraft arrive on the scene - and hopefully they are friendly. Otherwise, it will just end faster and then you can say "well at least it took several 109s to take me out instead of just one!"

 

I had a great two sorties on the US Expert server tonight with the LaGG, but my experience was more the exception than the rule. Two aircraft I jumped (the second one either had a CTD or combat logged), and the other aircraft was actually kind of a fight. He had the drop on me, I saw him due to flak and manuevered out of his fire ended up PKing him in a head on BUT there were other friendlies around in addition to it being very close to my side's airbase due to the fact air supremacy at altitude is totally in the 109's hands. So that pilot had not just me to worry about but potential other LaGGs/Il2s/Pe2s. It's also a very claustrophic environment online right now due to the small map size, but makes sense to test and ensure stability with lots of numbers in small confined areas. All in all, that part is very promising and performed very well.

 

In the end, I'm fairly certain the LaGG will rely on teamwork or getting a lucky bounce. They will probably be best for escorting Pe2s and Il-2s, so you can jump the 109s/190s while they are distracted by the far bigger lumbering targets.

[kongxinga]

But guys is there anything, anything that the Lagg does better? Or is it one of the situations where it is "thrice disadvantaged" as defined in in pursuit? Or is it more hopeful and just doubly disadvantaged? Is the Lagg disadvantage slightly less at certain speeds and altitudes? Or all it has for it is that it takes an extra second of fire to explode, but still becomes quickly unflyable after a small burst.

[[RG]Flanker1985]

Here is what I have gathered so far.

Compare to the original IL-2 game, LaGG-3 series 29 is :

1: Slower speed

2: Slower acceleration

3: Much slower speed recovery

4: No better maneuverability compare to Bf-109F4. Today I just went to a half an hour flying around with a 109. After half an hour of flying in circle, no one had opportunity to shoot at anyone.

So in tactical terms, LaGG seems to have no way to beat 109

 

But in the same time I also noticed a few advantages compare to the old IL-2 game:

1: Somewhat better low speed handling

2: Somewhat less chance of falling in to stall

3: Better fire power. (sometimes all you need is 1 bullet from the ShVAK, and your enemy will be blown to pieces)

 

LaGG-3 series 29 belonged to the mid 1942 Kuban and Crimea battle, I think what we need is the series 35.
So far the only chance I have to shoot at a 109 is when you 2 are head on. Wish more experienced friends can share some hits with us.

Edited April 14, 2014 by HarbingerFlanker1985

[71st_AH_Cujo]

But guys is there anything, anything that the Lagg does better? Or is it one of the situations where it is "thrice disadvantaged" as defined in in pursuit? Or is it more hopeful and just doubly disadvantaged? Is the Lagg disadvantage slightly less at certain speeds and altitudes? Or all it has for it is that it takes an extra second of fire to explode, but still becomes quickly unflyable after a small burst.

It's got higher roll rate than the 109 thus it can change direction quicker than the 109.

[ShamrockOneFive]

LaGG-3 series 29 belonged to the mid 1942 Kuban and Crimea battle, I think what we need is the series 35.

So far the only chance I have to shoot at a 109 is when you 2 are head on. Wish more experienced friends can share some hits with us.

 

This is a good point. When they announced the lineup I always wondered why the Series 29 and not the Series 35. If they wanted to hold a LaGG-3 in reserve for a later battle... the Series 66 would be fine. So not sure why that decision exactly. I don't think the Series 35 gave much of an advantage except for the leading edge slats which I guess were somewhat useful.

[[RG]Flanker1985]

This is a good point. When they announced the lineup I always wondered why the Series 29 and not the Series 35. If they wanted to hold a LaGG-3 in reserve for a later battle... the Series 66 would be fine. So not sure why that decision exactly. I don't think the Series 35 gave much of an advantage except for the leading edge slats which I guess were somewhat useful.

 

Any idea which version of the LaGG-3 was the best used in the Battle of Stalingrad?? 36? Or 40s something?

 

Also leading edge slats will be very useful, not just somewhat mate. It is going to make a noticeable difference. I bet series 35 will be as good as or at least approach the Yak-1 we have. 

Once the LaGG-3 series 35+ and Yak-1B is released, I think both side will be fighting on similar terms.

[LLv34_Flanker]

S!

 

 Most likely Series 29 and below.

[[RG]Flanker1985]

S!

 

 Most likely Series 29 and below.

 

Not likely, because series 35 started to enter (not just for combat test) the service since August 1942. I am sure there are considerable number of them in Stalingrad. Plus I heard this game's campaign is about Soviet counter offensive, which is in earlier 1943.

 

Also, does anyone know why series 29 and 35 are the most common ones we often heard?

Because as far as I know, each series was made in exactly the same amount ---- 100. So they would have the same number of aircraft for each series. But why 29 and 35 stand out so much. The same goes with series 4, 11 as well. We almost never heard about other series.

If you have more info, please share

Edited April 16, 2014 by HarbingerFlanker1985

[bivalov]

even i posted, very long time ago, sometimes exclusive information about series of la, lagg, yak etc (plus other information, about planes, weapon etc)... and who want to see, he SEEN... others engaged in chatter, "show off" or just talk... nothing personal, just my old observation...