Axis late war fighters

[356thFS_Melonfish]

Russian Bias! Russian Bias!

 

i'll still be flying my 110G, i'd like the GM-1 mod mind, give me a touch more speed at altitude, otherwise don't see why it won't still wreck whatever i point at.

 

Edited October 3, 2019 by Melonfish

[BraveSirRobin]

1 minute ago, PatrickAWlson said:

 

Shouldn't be too surprising.  A lot of Americans and Brits have been waiting for these allied planes.  I'm sure some might have changed for the sake of advantage but I would guess the majority changed because they have been waiting for western allied planes.

 

 

 

That doesn’t really explain why they changed their profile names.

[-LUCKY-ThanksSkeletor]

10 minutes ago, BraveSirRobin said:

 

That doesn’t really explain why they changed their profile names.

 

I don't get it, why does it matter if they changed their names? 

[MasserME262]

3 minutes ago, -LUCKY-ThanksSkeletor said:

 

I don't get it, why does it matter if they changed their names? 

Dont ask, he likes bringing on discussion those kind of things.

[Voidhunger]

I fly luft planes most of the time(99%) and im glad that there are finaly some  good allied planes. I like challenge. I often play qmb in numerical disadvantage. When I tried mustang i was impressed how good that plane is. and Tempest too and I would say that these two planes are better than Dora and K4. Thats good, no complaints here.

[MasserME262]

1 minute ago, Voidhunger said:

When I tried mustang i was impressed how good that plane is. 

Impressed? I read plenty of times it was one of the best, if not the best, fighter of WWII ?

 

2 minutes ago, Voidhunger said:

like challenge. I often play qmb in numerical disadvantage

Nothing like a single F4 against 4 Yak1. Even if I end up destroyed most of the times, its quite fun.

[LR.flyingfisch]

27 minutes ago, PatrickAWlson said:

 

Shouldn't be too surprising.  A lot of Americans and Brits have been waiting for these allied planes.  I'm sure some might have changed for the sake of advantage but I would guess the majority changed because they have been waiting for western allied planes.

 

 

 

That's exactly why I've been playing red more lately. Before the only red planes I really enjoyed flying were the A-20, P-40, and occasionally the Yak-7.

[BraveSirRobin]

13 minutes ago, -LUCKY-ThanksSkeletor said:

 

I don't get it, why does it matter if they changed their names? 

 

Really?  A bunch of guys fly nothing but German for years.  It doesn’t matter how stacked the sides are, they fly German.  Not because they have a big advantage, they say, but, you know, reasons.  Now that we have some parity in fighter aircraft they suddenly disappear.  Or change their profile names.  Either way, it’s pretty funny.

[LR.flyingfisch]

30 minutes ago, BraveSirRobin said:

 

That doesn’t really explain why they changed their profile names.

 

Probably because they used to be in LW squadrons but only because there weren't interesting planes on the red side for most americans. Now that there are interesting american planes on red, those players have switched.

 

 

EDIT: For what it's worth, 4/5 times I used to fly German because the russian planes weren't interesting to me. Now I fly primarily red side planes.

Edited October 3, 2019 by flyingfisch

[EAF19_Marsh]

1 hour ago, III./JG7-MarkWilhelmsson said:

There were several days when JG7 got 30+ jets in the air at once. There should be 3x more 262s on an historically appropriate map than K4s. 

 

Except, to be polite, they were not operating over the Rhein but far back. And serviceability in general was quite low.

 

But it does not matter to one degree: this is a flight sim, not a strategic war sim. The 262 operated in the theatre so it should be in. Some servers tend to end up with an ahistorical balance of aircraft, but as long as both sides have the equivalent aircraft then that is just one of those things.

 

In a campaign - SP or TAW - these things are better reflective of the actual events. But if you simply enjoy flying the aircraft then they are there.

 

BoBp based on statistical type numbers, sorties and availability would be a very boring combat flight sim for us lucky to sit in a 21st Century comfy chair.

Edited October 3, 2019 by EAF19_Marsh

[PatrickAWlson]

15 minutes ago, ME-BFMasserME262 said:

Impressed? I read plenty of times it was one of the best, if not the best, fighter of WWII ?

 

Nothing like a single F4 against 4 Yak1. Even if I end up destroyed most of the times, its quite fun.

 

P51 as "the best" always has to be followed with "best at what?".  It was a remarkable design that could fly for very long ranges without sacrificing performance or durability, so when it arrived after all that flying it could fight as well or better than its opponents.  And remember, its opponents were usually 109 Gs or 190 As, not the very late war designs.  Best escort fighter certainly.  And more important, best escort fighter at a time when the Allies badly needed a good one.

 

However, would I want to fly at a box of B17s with my 4x or 6x .50 cal in a P51?  No.

Would I want to go out day after day attacking ground targets in a P51?  No (although it could do it reasonably well).

Fighter vs fighter?  I would take the P51 over a 109G or 190A.  And definitely the best after a flight from England to Berlin  

[69th_Mobile_BBQ]

21 minutes ago, flyingfisch said:

 

Probably because they used to be in LW squadrons but only because there weren't interesting planes on the red side for most americans. Now that there are interesting american planes on red, those players have switched.

 

 

EDIT: For what it's worth, 4/5 times I used to fly German because the russian planes weren't interesting to me. Now I fly primarily red side planes.

 

Some people fly anything the game has to offer simply because "it flies" and it's a challenge to fly most of them well.  

 

I've changed my personal policy that after the "new planes!" novelty calms down I'll be flying 50% whatever I feel like and 50% whichever team is lower on players when I join.  Eventually, I want to be at least competent in every plane of the GB series.  (Yes, including the Hs-129 and Ju52)

 

That said, there are players out there that will only fly the planes they believe are superior and snub their nose at anything they think can be beaten by more than fluke chance.  Obviously, since the performance (mostly) and armament advantage was tilted in favor of Blue, they only flew Blue, in spite of Red needing numbers.  Now, the new planes are out and the perceived insta-pwn quality is causing a mass defection.  Those are the people in my opinion that should go TF back to Blue.   

 

 

Edited October 3, 2019 by Mobile_BBQ

[Jonttu1]

1 hour ago, JonRedcorn said:

I can't tell you how pleased it makes me to see Luftwaffe only fliers crying about fairness. For all I care I hope the teams never balance out and they face the team stacking we had to endure for so long. 

But if the teams were stacked Germans and now they're stacked on the Allied side... That simply means the people who were stacking Germans have switched to Allies. So many of the true criminals aren't feeling the pain.

[LR.flyingfisch]

16 minutes ago, Mobile_BBQ said:

Some people fly anything the game has to offer simply because "it flies" and it's a challenge to fly most of them well.  

 

I've changed my personal policy that after the "new planes!" novelty calms down I'll be flying 50% whatever I feel like and 50% whichever team is lower on players when I join.  Eventually, I want to be at least competent in every plane of the GB series.  (Yes, including the Hs-129 and Ju52)

 

That said, there are players out there that will only fly the planes they believe are superior and snub their nose at anything they think can be beaten by more than fluke chance.  Obviously, since the performance (mostly) and armament advantage was tilted in favor of Blue, they only flew Blue, in spite of Red needing numbers.  Now, the new planes are out and the perceived insta-pwn quality is causing a mass defection.  Those are the people in my opinion that should go TF back to Blue.   

 

I was just pointing out why I fly red more now. When there's a large disparity in numbers between sides I usually choose the side with less players even if that means I'm forced to fly a plane I don't enjoy as much.

 

At the end of the day though, who really cares. It's a game, fly what you want to fly, be nice, have fun. If you enjoy learning to fly every plane, do it. If you enjoy mastering one particular plane, that's fine as well. Or do anything in between.

[-=PHX=-SuperEtendard]

1 hour ago, sevenless said:

 

Yep. September and October 1944 will be VERY challenging, as it was in real life.

 

And even more challenging for LW the February-March 1944 timeframe. 

[Majakowski]

Just rode a Tempest on an MP server to try it out as I am not really the fighter type. But almost instantly got a Fw190, stayed behind him and could follow him without my plane shaking and stalling. This was a really good feeling and finally I bagged him. That felt good. Although I eventually will stay with my bombers.

[69TD_Hajo_Garlic]

31 minutes ago, Mobile_BBQ said:

Those are the people in my opinion that should go TF back to Blue.   

Nahhh I insist you keep them!?

18 minutes ago, Jonttu1 said:

So many of the true criminals aren't feeling the pain.

For me the pain is flying around for 30min without finding anyone.  I love that the sky is full of shiny specks.  The historical accuracy is fun too.

[69th_Mobile_BBQ]

6 minutes ago, flyingfisch said:

 

I was just pointing out why I fly red more now. When there's a large disparity in numbers between sides I usually choose the side with less players even if that means I'm forced to fly a plane I don't enjoy as much.

 

At the end of the day though, who really cares. It's a game, fly what you want to fly, be nice, have fun. If you enjoy learning to fly every plane, do it. If you enjoy mastering one particular plane, that's fine as well. Or do anything in between.

 

I wasn't pointing at you.  I actually appreciate the players that will fly the various planes for the sake of flying them.  I don't even care what someone's favorite plane is.  It does irk me when it's obvious that the only reason a person flies a particular plane is because it appears to have the most chance of winning and they will never take a chance on any other model.  Not because they might genuinely have fun with the "lesser" plane but, because they might lose more often even if they do git guud with it.  Now that the perception is the new planes are going to check every box in the superiority checklist, guess where they are going to go.  

 

[Majakowski]

1 minute ago, Hajo_Garlic said:

For me the pain is flying around for 30min without finding anyone.  I love that the sky is full of shiny specks.  The historical accuracy is fun too.

 

I actually like when nobody pops up to interfere with my approach or departure ?

[69th_Mobile_BBQ]

3 minutes ago, Majakowski said:

Just rode a Tempest on an MP server to try it out as I am not really the fighter type. But almost instantly got a Fw190, stayed behind him and could follow him without my plane shaking and stalling. This was a really good feeling and finally I bagged him. That felt good. Although I eventually will stay with my bombers.

 

P-38 Is the best strike bomber available to the Allies right now.  Have the best of both worlds.  

[SCG_Wulfe]

3 hours ago, JonRedcorn said:

I can't tell you how pleased it makes me to see Luftwaffe only fliers crying about fairness. For all I care I hope the teams never balance out and they face the team stacking we had to endure for so long. 

Hey I primarily enjoy flying axis and am super excited that I get to actually fly axis now without feeling like I'm contributing to a problem ?

[Cpt_Siddy]

Maybe i can play one round of TAW on axis without need to switch because of the axis team stack for a change. 

[Guest deleted@83466]

4 hours ago, 7.GShAP/Silas said:

Guys glued into Axis aircraft have spent the entire lifespan of BoX accustomed to a total, unassailable advantage and now view that as the natural state of affairs.  I'll enjoy every second of the screeching.

 

Bingo

[Luftschiff]

For me the preference for the LW planes has always been the fact that, being raised in western europe, you grew up seeing, hearing and reading about the German, British and American planes. I don't think I could name a single Russian fighter aircraft until quite late. It's not that they were worse, or better, there was just no romance or baseline fascination for the types. A blue preference would never keep me from the numerically underprivileged though, unless I had my mind set on flying the Stuka that night -  and let's be fair, that's probably better for Red stats than me flying a Russian fighter

 

Now american and british types, including the P-38 which is one of my all time faves, are making an appearance, and with some solid ground-pounding capacities as well! Good news all around! Once the novelty wears off I think we'll see less stacking overall to be honest - but personally I could get shot down in a 262 by an I-16 so I've long since settled in for being seal-clubbed regardless of airframe.

[Legioneod]

I think the main problem is that Axis players are so used to having superior aircraft that this has led them to form poor tactics/flying habits.

 

G modeling is also a new factor that players really never had to deal with before. Players can no longer make insane high G maneuvers without consequence, this has lead to some funny encounters online where I see players trying the same old things only to black out and hit the dirt.

[CIA_Yankee_]

16 minutes ago, Legioneod said:

I think the main problem is that Axis players are so used to having superior aircraft that this has led them to form poor tactics/flying habits.

 

To be fair, I don't think that is the case. The pilots with poor tactics/flying habits are the ones who would try to turn with the soviet fighters and complain about Yaks being UFOs and what have you.

 

The successful ones, meanwhile, used their energy advantage, fought in the vertical, and wouldn't get into turning fights. Those are _very_ valuable skills and proper tactics no matter who they're fighting against. The difference, however, is that now they're fighting enemies who are just as good in the vertical, and can general compete as energy fighters. The tactics are still valid, but the margin of error is a lot slimmer and just climbing away is no longer a sure egress strategy anymore (unless they're in 262s, of course).

[Voidhunger]

21 minutes ago, Legioneod said:

Players can no longer make insane high G maneuvers without consequence, this has lead to some funny encounters online where I see players trying the same old things only to black out and hit the dirt.

This I want to see, maybe Ill try MP again for some fun ?

[Legioneod]

1 minute ago, 71st_AH_Yankee_ said:

 

To be fair, I don't think that is the case. The pilots with poor tactics/flying habits are the ones who would try to turn with the soviet fighters and complain about Yaks being UFOs and what have you.

 

The successful ones, meanwhile, used their energy advantage, fought in the vertical, and wouldn't get into turning fights. Those are _very_ valuable skills and proper tactics no matter who they're fighting against. The difference, however, is that now they're fighting enemies who are just as good in the vertical, and can general compete as energy fighters. The tactics are still valid, but the margin of error is a lot slimmer and just climbing away is no longer a sure egress strategy anymore (unless they're in 262s, of course).

True. I probably shouldn't have said poor tactics, but the same tactics used against soviet aircraft will no longer be easy to use against western fighters.

 

Just now, Voidhunger said:

This I want to see, maybe Ill try MP again for some fun ?

 

It's hilarious. My buddy followed a 109 down to the deck and the 109 tried to evade by pulling a high G turn, he ended up blacking out and smacking the deck. Luckily my buddy was smart enough not to follow him lol.

 

Coming in for a high speed attack is also harder now, especially against a slower aircraft. D9 tried to pull in on my six after a high speed dive, I was moving slower so I was able to pull more G and ride the edge of the blackout better. He tried to do the same but couldn't follow due to I'm assuming him blacking out or starting to blackout.

 

Overall fighting and flying feel much more realistic with the new pilot physiology, definitely one of the best additions to the game.

[LukeFF]

7 hours ago, 56RAF_Roblex said:

He describes serious shortages of machines and supplies caused by the inability of the Allied ground forces to move anything without it being destroyed by 262s.   

 

I like Clostermann's book as much as anyone else, but that's a serious stretch right there. There is no way in the world that the Allied supply lines were being interdicted by 262s to anywhere near the level of it becoming a problem. 

[ShadowStalker887]

Interesting discussion about the state of affairs regarding red/blue balance and peoples feelings on it, but I actually intended this to be a more technical discussion centered around other late war axis props, specifically in regards to whether or not we have anything else that's as competitive as our current birds (I can only really think of the Ki-84). Also to clear the air a little bit, I honestly have no problems over whether Red or Blue have superior aircraft as I generally fly whatever has caught my interest at the time. For the moment that's the FW-190A8 which may have inflated my opinion of allied aircraft a little bit......

49 minutes ago, LukeFF said:

 

I like Clostermann's book as much as anyone else, but that's a serious stretch right there. There is no way in the world that the Allied supply lines were being interdicted by 262s to anywhere near the level of it becoming a problem. 

I suspect he may have witnessed it happening once or twice and then assumed that's why they weren't getting parts and supplies, as opposed to more mundane reasons. I can't imagine the logistics guys would do much to correct that thinking; "Yeah it's was the luftwaffe's fault we're late, we totally didn't muck up the schedule by taking the wrong left and causing a traffic jam or anything."

[-=PHX=-SuperEtendard]

5 hours ago, ShadowStalker887 said:

Interesting discussion about the state of affairs regarding red/blue balance and peoples feelings on it, but I actually intended this to be a more technical discussion centered around other late war axis props, specifically in regards to whether or not we have anything else that's as competitive as our current birds (I can only really think of the Ki-84).

 

Imho in pure technical terms, the 1.98 ata K-4 is as far as it goes for late German piston fighters. Yeah there's the Ta 152 but it was really limited, and below 7000 meters of altitude you are better in a K-4 anyway.

Edited October 4, 2019 by -=PHX=-SuperEtendard

[peregrine7]

1 hour ago, ShadowStalker887 said:

Interesting discussion about the state of affairs regarding red/blue balance and peoples feelings on it, but I actually intended this to be a more technical discussion centered around other late war axis props, specifically in regards to whether or not we have anything else that's as competitive as our current birds (I can only really think of the Ki-84). Also to clear the air a little bit, I honestly have no problems over whether Red or Blue have superior aircraft as I generally fly whatever has caught my interest at the time. For the moment that's the FW-190A8 which may have inflated my opinion of allied aircraft a little bit......

I suspect he may have witnessed it happening once or twice and then assumed that's why they weren't getting parts and supplies, as opposed to more mundane reasons. I can't imagine the logistics guys would do much to correct that thinking; "Yeah it's was the luftwaffe's fault we're late, we totally didn't muck up the schedule by taking the wrong left and causing a traffic jam or anything."

 
Yes, does anyone have a link to the specs page for the BoBP fighters? Or can ya copy/paste the specs here? 

Seems like the Dora has advantage in speed and altitude, K4 has low speed turning ability, climb and accel. 262 is obvious.

The big disadvantages are: German guns are all low velocity cannons, made for bombers not high speed fights. Gsuits, holy goddamn, Germans just cannot compete. 

So... er... K4 make your approaches with slight energy advantage, conserve it and outclimb. Dora just keep the speed high and don't turn. Me262 is similar.  Going to need a bunch more time to figure out more than that. 

(Oh and you can out turn the P38, but I don't think the K4 can outclimb it)

[unreasonable]

11 minutes ago, peregrine7 said:

 
Yes, does anyone have a link to the specs page for the BoBP fighters?

Only the first five BoBp planes are on this page so far: I expect Han will update when he has time and any residual issues are sorted out. 

 

[Legioneod]

1 hour ago, peregrine7 said:

 (Oh and you can out turn the P38, but I don't think the K4 can outclimb it)

I'm not so sure about this. My Buddy and I have been flying 38s and we haven't had anyone able to outturn or climb us yet.

The Axis try to outturn us and when that doesnt work they'll try a steep spiral climb, all the while the P-38 stays glued to their six no problem.

[BraveSirRobin]

The only problem that I've seen with the P-38 is that it sticks out like a sore thumb.  Last night I was in a Dora diving into a furball with what I thought were some Tempests.  Then I spotted a P-38.  I had some doubts about the Tempest that I was targeting.  There was no doubt about the P-38.  So I went after him instead.  

[Blackhawk_FR]

36 minutes ago, VO101Kurfurst said:

the reclined seating position in all German fighters which did have similar effect

 

Similar effect of a g suit...? Sorry but it's hard to believe. Any proofs?

By the way, what was the angle of the german seats?

Edited October 4, 2019 by F/JG300_Faucon

[EAF19_Marsh]

5 hours ago, ShadowStalker887 said:

 

I suspect he may have witnessed it happening once or twice and then assumed that's why they weren't getting parts and supplies, as opposed to more mundane reasons. I can't imagine the logistics guys would do much to correct that thinking; "Yeah it's was the luftwaffe's fault we're late, we totally didn't muck up the schedule by taking the wrong left and causing a traffic jam or anything."

 

Clostermann is not a source of fact. He is / was wrong about so many things after a while it gets boring.

 

Great book, terrible history.

[Aap]

12 minutes ago, F/JG300_Faucon said:

Similar effect of a g suit...? Sorry but it's hard to believe. Any proofs?

By the way, what was the angle of the german seats?

 

He probably means "similar effect" as adding G-force resistance because of this "legs in front" sitting position, compared to most of allied/soviet fighters that had kind of normal sitting position, not that the G-force resistance effect would be of similar level to a G-suit. 

Examples of sitting positions in Bf109 and Spitfire: (under spoiler due to swastika)

 

Spoiler

 

Spoiler

 

[AndyJWest]

Spitfires had two-position rudder pedals. With your feet on the upper footrests, you wouldn't be in the position shown in the illustration.

[EAF19_Marsh]

4 minutes ago, F/JG300_Faucon said:

 

Similar effect of a g suit...? Sorry but it's hard to believe. Any proofs?

By the way, what was the angle of the german seats?

 

It will help, but it won’t have the same effect.

 

British fighters had 2 sets of pedals, one set higher for manoeuvring so that the pilot had his legs raised and hence a slightly more recloned body position and some assistance to blood draining to the legs. Again, it helped but likely less than a 109 seat and certainly leas than a g-suit.