The Rheinland map

[LernanRuss]

59 minutes ago, J2-Oelmann said:

But in a fighter simulation the ground is much more you can crash into. Its the base for every scenario.

I beg to differ. When I fight against air targets, ground is just a thing to avoid contact with. IF we had some carpet bombings here, with all those Big Bad B-17s, then MAYBE that would be another matter, but as things are now - I hardly notice Greenpeace victory on the ground.

[Feathered_IV]

Hmm.  A realistic portrayal of the landscape appropriate to the time period it is supposed to depict is very important to me.  

 

*********************************

 

But that's beside the point.  The really important thing is - if you don't mind admitting you have always felt strangely aroused by the phrase "animal-husbandry", please share it with us all by leaving a laughing face emoji down there on the right... 

Edited October 5, 2019 by Feathered_IV
Anti Luke device engaged

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

 

3 hours ago, KB-Kriechbaum said:

What could do the trick :

 

They could produce more and bigger cities by removing half or more of the 3d-buildings and replace them with less complex ruins (two textures forming two faces of the building still standing) or just the "footprint" of the buildings as textures of the ground.

After all, most of the cities were pretty flat by that time with only tougher buildings still standing.

 

Something like this: 

 

That way, you can stretch out the amount of buildings you want as a more complex 3d-Model for a given area while still maintaining the effect of having a rather urbanized landscape.

 

Stalingrad looks very good, so something like this will totally enhance the look of the rhineland map.

I am sure they will further develop this very large map over time. 

 

I like how Stalingrad runis are  presented , very immersive and do no need for mission builder to set any damage and  modeler do no need to model  buildings in two variants: undamaged and damaged plus ground  texture is correct for destroyed city. This all work straight in QMG.

[Chief_Mouser]

2 hours ago, LernanRuss said:

I beg to differ. When I fight against air targets, ground is just a thing to avoid contact with. IF we had some carpet bombings here, with all those Big Bad B-17s, then MAYBE that would be another matter, but as things are now - I hardly notice Greenpeace victory on the ground.

 

That's a very selfish point of view. Not everyone thinks virtual dogfighting is the bees knees. Ground attack- minded players spend most of their time close to the ground. Their target objects are modelled with great fidelity and modelling the ground detail as well as can be done within the game's limits is all part of the sim. 

[Gambit21]

1 hour ago, Red_Cat said:

 

That's a very selfish point of view. Not everyone thinks virtual dogfighting is the bees knees. Ground attack- minded players spend most of their time close to the ground. Their target objects are modelled with great fidelity and modelling the ground detail as well as can be done within the game's limits is all part of the sim. 

 

Yeah that was a very narrow-minded and silly post on his part.

 

On the other hand this is a tactical sim/map, not a strategic one.

 

So we don’t need “the industrial heart of Germany” fleshed out - this is unreasonable considering financial resources and timelines. I never expected such a thing.

 

A few marshalling yards in various places around the map however?  Those  were tactical targets and could be put to good use. That’s all I’m wishing for at this juncture.

 

Buildings can be destroyed via editor logic.

Edited October 4, 2019 by Gambit21

[Yogiflight]

And what about concrete roads instead of those russian style dirt ways, and towns, in which the houses are not standing in the grass? There don't have to be paving stones, I don't even need sidewalks, just some greyish underground on streets and places.

Fortunately on this map we don't have that lots of trees in the cities, like on the russian maps.

[sevenless]

57 minutes ago, Gambit21 said:

A few marshalling yards in various places around the map however?  Those  were tactical targets and could be put to good use. That’s all I’m wishing for at this juncture.

 

Some further suggestions. Train yards and lost of them. Nearly all important traffic back then was dependant on trains. Hence there was way more rail infrastucture present in Germany of the 40s than it is today. Allmost all important lines were two-track lines and not one track lines as it is currently represented. Furthermore the rail-lines at present would benefit from a way darker appearance due to almost exclusive usage of really dity dark gravel.

[Gambit21]

2 minutes ago, sevenless said:

 

Some further suggestions. Train yards and lost of them. Nearly all important traffic back then was dependant on trains. Hence there was way more rail infrastucture present in Germany of the 40s than it is today. Allmost all important lines were two-track lines and not one track lines as it is currently represented. Furthermore the rail-lines at present would benefit from a way darker appearance due to almost exclusive usage of really dity dark gravel.

 

Those are marshaling yards

[sevenless]

6 minutes ago, Gambit21 said:

 

Those are marshaling yards

 

Yes, I just wanted to add to your sensible suggestion.

[JSOflyer69]

already we saw in devs diary’s how bombed towns,cities would look.

when bobenplatte is finished will the cities be bombed, as in historical timeframe in the campaign?

[Gambit21]

25 minutes ago, meplanes1969 said:

already we saw in devs diary’s how bombed towns,cities would look.

 

when bobenplatte is finished will the cities be bombed, as in historical timeframe in the campaign?

 

You're providing an answer then asking the question...what exactly is your question (if you have one)

[56RAF_Stickz]

22 hours ago, BraveSirRobin said:

I'm especially impressed by the .5 guy on that team.  Especially if the .5 was the bottom half.

Well thats supposedly  the half (at least of a male) that does the thinking, so got the important half

[Missionbug]

 

37 minutes ago, meplanes1969 said:

already we saw in devs diary’s how bombed towns,cities would look.

when bobenplatte is finished will the cities be bombed, as in historical timeframe in the campaign?

 

 

Maybe this will be up to the mission builder to decide, there is no confirmation so far I have seen.

 

It would make sense to ship the map with a system that was in the old 1946 version, in that there was what I think was called the damage brush for mission/campaign builders to add destruction to built up areas yet leave the map buildings intact if that was not applied, that way the map is available for all eventualities, prewar for instance and would/should/could suit all tastes I hope.

 

Then again we do all like to bitch about anything and everything, so maybe not.

 

The only other way is we have two types of map, one damaged the other not, however, I doubt that will happen as there are/were intensions to be multiple seasons I think for the final product.

 

Wishing you all the very best, Pete.

 

 

[Krisu]

On 9/30/2019 at 8:53 PM, CanadaOne said:

And the Rhineland map has some BIG AZZ CONCRETE AIRFIELDS!  Longest runway I found was in the NW corner, can't remember the name.

 

It's a very nice map.

 

Jesus christ, I need a thicker skin 

 

Do you fly with anybody? Can I join up with you guys it's been a while for me I'm trying to get back into the groove and stuff 

Edited October 4, 2019 by Krisu

[CanadaOne]

1 hour ago, Krisu said:

 

Jesus christ, I need a thicker skin 

 

 

 

He can help. 

[Krisu]

12 minutes ago, CanadaOne said:

 

 

He can help. 

 

I hope so

[Ouky1991]

The new map is absolutely stunnig considering how many poeple worked on it. The cities are just beautifull and the new airfields are awsome too. Good job devs.

 

BTW I had no Idea these guys work at 777 Studios.

[danielprates]

"Meeeeeeeeeeeen"

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

9 hours ago, Missionbug said:

 

 

 

Maybe this will be up to the mission builder to decide, there is no confirmation so far I have seen.

 

It would make sense to ship the map with a system that was in the old 1946 version, in that there was what I think was called the damage brush for mission/campaign builders to add destruction to built up areas yet leave the map buildings intact if that was not applied, that way the map is available for all eventualities, prewar for instance and would/should/could suit all tastes I hope.

 

Then again we do all like to bitch about anything and everything, so maybe not.

 

The only other way is we have two types of map, one damaged the other not, however, I doubt that will happen as there are/were intensions to be multiple seasons I think for the final product.

 

Wishing you all the very best, Pete.

 

 

Don't you think that if map is by design for events in 1945 or 1918 it should be by default set as damaged? All other scenarios (prewar) are ok but we don't know if somebody would like to made  them and play fantasy.

This is still in WIP so I don't know how it will end in final release. 

[EAF19_Marsh]

I thought I saw a marshalling yard.

 

*wanders off the check*

 

Nope, but it looks like possibly a place-holder for a marshalling yard at Koln.

Edited October 5, 2019 by EAF19_Marsh

[bzc3lk]

                       I would like to see some of the Arras assets scattered around the not so populated countryside to at least give the impression that the area is populated. It may also help with navigation, giving us some reference points .

                        Having the extended viewing distance on aircraft visibility now makes it harder for bombers to sneak through on high level flight sorties, so they may have to resort to low level incursions , as in the Pathe movie clip below. This is where the landmark (small towns and farms) would come in helpful.

 

 

 

Edited October 5, 2019 by bzc3lk

[[DBS]El_Marta]

This map is wip.

 

The phisical topography is very close to the real thing and you can really recognize the area, but the map still looks a bit empty.
 

The Velikie Luki map shows a rather realistic and convincing  representation of a town with a train station. Now imagine multiple Velkie-Lukies next to each other and you will understand how taxing a realistic repesentation of the Rhineland will become in regards to computing power as well as manpower for building it.

 

The free terrain tiles are most likely placeholders and I guess they will be exchanged subsequently.

I did not check the mission builder, but on first sight we lack specific architecture modules representing the coal and steel producing industries. As you can see in the film many of the huge industrial complexes are situated in the open landscape on the border of the towns.

Landmarks like Villa Hügel, Dortmund Union Brewery etc. imho are a nice task for the modding community.

 

 

 

 

[Juri_JS]

I hope the coastline will be reworked in the future and we will get beaches similar to the Kuban map. The broad sand beaches typical for the North Sea coast of Holland and Belgium are completely missing at the moment and also the vast dune areas north of Den Haag and the heathland between Arnhem and the Ijsselmeer.

 

A different field structure for some parts of Holland and north western Germany with long narrow fields would also be more realistic.

[JSOflyer69]

14 hours ago, Gambit21 said:

 

You're providing an answer then asking the question...what exactly is your question (if you have one)

it’s a logical enough question, when the map is finished in ( in timeframe say such and such a day cologne was bombed, as example, after that date will in look destroyed look, as before it was bombed it will look normal.

just a simple question! I am talking campaign mode here,or even in quick combat ( Stalingrad map is damaged too fly over )

Edited October 5, 2019 by meplanes1969

[Missionbug]

4 hours ago, 307_Tomcat said:

Don't you think that if map is by design for events in 1945 or 1918 it should be by default set as damaged? All other scenarios (prewar) are ok but we don't know if somebody would like to made  them and play fantasy.

This is still in WIP so I don't know how it will end in final release. 

 

 

I understand the argument for the map representing that particular period of time, as does the Arras map with no mans land, however, I would hope that there is a dynamic built into the map as it is that would allow damage as occurred at this time to be represented by the mission/campaign builder so the map could be used for earlier periods that is all, whether we ever get the aircraft is irrelevant as what we have now does at least give certain opportunities to explore for those with experience of the mission builder. 

 

The Stalingrad effect does look particularly good but traps that map in that time period so earlier events cannot really be represented, pilot training in and around the city if it happened there, first posting maybe prewar, civil aviation using the Ju-52 and so on, it would be better to have undamaged maps where it could be altered as was the case with IL-2 1946 and its earlier iterations, that way you do not need to build a new map if say the fall of France is represented as a module one day.

 

Maybe one of the mission/campaign builders could possibly tell us just what is actually possible with the existing maps and even this WIP.

 

 

Wishing you all the very best, Pete.

[Wa99el]

13 hours ago, Juri_JS said:

 .... A different field structure for some parts of Holland and north western Germany with long narrow fields would also be more realistic.

Yeb.

 

The field structure in the netherlands near to the coast is very often different to the lower german fields near to the coast.

The following texture can often be seen in the coastal area of the Netherlands. The fields are rectangular. What you can

not see: Around many fields are small and smallest channels and sewers. In the old Il-2 it was not possible to generate these smallest channels.

 

In lower Germany near to the coast, the fields are looking much more round and natural.

 

You can see both types of fields on aerial photographs of the RAF and USAAF between 1942 and 1945. 

Heading inland, the landscapes of the Netherlands and Germany are very similar. They are looking like the

textures on the rhineland map.

 

What I have seen so far leads me to the idea that low-level flights in the Netherlands and in Germany are very

interesting, because the textures have many subtleties and structures. Otherwise, the area is pretty flat and boring.

That's why God settled Protestants there. Other people would go insane ?

 

 

[sevenless]

59 minutes ago, Wa99el said:

That's why God settled Protestants there. Other people would go insane ?

 

 

ROFL!

[Sharpe43]

Do a flight down to Bastogne sometime… that ll be very far from boring..

 

 

 

 

[Uufflakke]

9 hours ago, Wa99el said:

In lower Germany near to the coast, the fields are looking much more round and natural.

 

In Lower Germany near to the coast?

Sorry but war ended in '45 so France, Belgium and The Netherlands do have their coastline back.

 

 

23 hours ago, Juri_JS said:

I hope the coastline will be reworked in the future and we will get beaches similar to the Kuban map. The broad sand beaches typical for the North Sea coast of Holland and Belgium are completely missing at the moment and also the vast dune areas north of Den Haag and the heathland between Arnhem and the Ijsselmeer.

 

A different field structure for some parts of Holland and north western Germany with long narrow fields would also be more realistic.

 

WOII, The Netherlands, Belgium and sand dunes... Do I hear someone saying Atlantikwall?

https://www.tracesofwar.com/themes/4660/Overview-fortifications-Atlantic-Wall.htm

 

Or the inundation of Walcheren (Zeeland) of October 1944 until the end of the war.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inundation_of_Walcheren

To realize it first there need to be added objects on that part of the map. At the moment it is empty.

 

On this WWII aerial photograph a good impression of how field structures looked like in Zeeland:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e6/De_gebombardeerde_dijk_bij_Westkapelle.jpg

 

 

Edited October 6, 2019 by Uufflakke

[HagarTheHorrible]

55 minutes ago, Sharpe43 said:

Do a flight down to Bastogne sometime… that ll be very far from boring..

 

 

 

 

 

I would do, but I'm having a hell of a time trying to follow a road, or several, in.  Evidentally it's a strategicially significant communications hub, or so I was lead to believe.  ?

[Semor76]

Well, what irritates me the most is absence of any devs. comment of the current state of the map. It is WIP, sure. But with so many important things missing for now.

 

I didn´t expect Ortho style areal landscapes, but this 10x10 km Copy & past texture pattern orgy all over the map is a bit overdone.

 

Maybe I sound disappointed? well, because I am.

 

 

Edited October 6, 2019 by Semor76

[Sharpe43]

Just now, Semor76 said:

Well, what irritates me the most is absence of any devs. comment of the current state of the map. It is WIP, sure. But with so many important things missing for now.

 

I didn´t expect Ortho style areal landscapes, but this 10x10 km Copy & past texture pattern orgy all over the map is a bit overdone.

 

Maybe I sound disappointed? well, because I am.

 

 

you're not the only one

[Jason_Williams]

1 hour ago, Semor76 said:

Well, what irritates me the most is absence of any devs. comment of the current state of the map. It is WIP, sure. But with so many important things missing for now.

 

I didn´t expect Ortho style areal landscapes, but this 10x10 km Copy & past texture pattern orgy all over the map is a bit overdone.

 

Maybe I sound disappointed? well, because I am.

 

 

 

Maximum ability of our small team. We focused on unique airfields and bigger cities over super detailed countryside. Maybe we can improve it further, but time will tell. 

 

Jason

[Yogiflight]

I did some travelling with a Panzer IV from the QMB starting point near Bonn to Köln, to visit the Dom and was quite surprised, it was not there. I was standing on the Domplatte, where I clearly could see where it should be. Quite funny, as it is there when you are flying.

EDIT: As I was shown in the TC section, the Dom and the railroad main station, which I didn't see either, are there when you drive a tank, so my guess is, it has to do with the fact, that I was in OFFLINE mode. Can it be, that this part of the map is not yet loaded to the map, but only to the 1CGS server, so you have to be in ONLINE mode to see it?

EDIT II: Tried it in ONLINE mode, but still no Dom or railroad main station in Köln for me.

Edited October 6, 2019 by Yogiflight

[rodgerdavies]

I'm consuming every video I can find of this map; can't wait to have a fly out over it myself soon(ish). Does anyone know of any other landmarks, similar to Koln's cathedral?

Edited October 6, 2019 by rodgerdavies

[RedKestrel]

25 minutes ago, rodgerdavies said:

I'm consuming every video I can find of this map; can't wait to have a fly out over it myself soon(ish). Does anyone know of any other landmarks, similar to Koln's cathedral?

Antwerp has some cool unique structures. I don’t know enough about architecture to say more.

[Jaegermeister]

11 hours ago, Sharpe43 said:

Do a flight down to Bastogne sometime… that ll be very far from boring..

 

I flew from Florennes down to Bastogne the other day and the hill country is nicely done. I had no idea that Houffalize was nestled in a little river valley like that. Superbly done in my opinion. 

 

A good friend of the family who served in USAAF intelligence was in Bastogne during the siege and told me some stories about how he had to guard some German prisoners in the stone church in the center of town, so I was glad to see that was there.

 

I did notice that the area around Aachen is way less populated that in reality, with some significant front line areas missing entirely, but we can work with that i’m sure. It’s not necessary to recreate the entire Siegfried Line with every bunker to make it playable, so I guess it will just be a matter of how far to take it with the available scenery objects.

 

 

Edited October 6, 2019 by Jaegermeister

[Gambit21]

I put quite a bit of time into building the Siegfried Line around the Aachen area already. (With what I have available) Not quite done yet but getting there.

[Uufflakke]

23 hours ago, rodgerdavies said:

I'm consuming every video I can find of this map; can't wait to have a fly out over it myself soon(ish). Does anyone know of any other landmarks, similar to Koln's cathedral?

 

22 hours ago, RedKestrel said:

Antwerp has some cool unique structures. I don’t know enough about architecture to say more.

 

Yes, the Onze-Lieve-Vrouwekathedraal is present on the map in the city of Antwerp.

A bit more to the east, near the triangular city park,  there should be the Antwerp trainstation with its large platform roofs similar to Köln, Amsterdam and other cities on the map.

It is not (yet) present.

Not to mention the architecture of the building itself, it is a-b-s-o-l-u-t-e-l-y beautiful.

 

 

[Sharpe43]

18 hours ago, Gambit21 said:

I put quite a bit of time into building the Siegfried Line around the Aachen area already. (With what I have available) Not quite done yet but getting there.

out of curiosity; are you also including the Aachener Dom?