Microsoft Flight Sim 2020/2024

[Tycoon]

19 minutes ago, Stoopy said:

 

Sure, I'll take the bet.  As much as I'd like to see a new CFS happen, you only have to look at MFS2020 and see the emphasis on newer, more modern and accessible aircraft to realize that a combat flight sim just doesn't jive with the soft-shoe approach they are using in their flight sim environment. 

 

 

 

An airbus is more accessible than a me 109?

 

20 minutes ago, Stoopy said:

 

 

 

Name your time frame in which there will be a new CFS released.  One year?  Two?  Five?

 

 I say by 2022 it's at least announced.

[Feathered_IV]

1 hour ago, Tycoon said:

 I say by 2022 it's at least announced.

I agree too. The only major hurdle I would see for them is multiplayer.  The FS2020 files are wide open for cheaters. 

[SAS_Storebror]

5 hours ago, 216th_LuseKofte said:

There will not be any new cfs. There are no reasonable  reason  For MS to do that. 
They will not have a economical reason. Thus not doing it

Mind you the economical reason behind MSFS 2020 was just an indirect one too: Showcase the Azure Cloud's capabilities.

An MS CFS could do the same, just for a younger audience.

 

Mike

[Tycoon]

55 minutes ago, SAS_Storebror said:

Mind you the economical reason behind MSFS 2020 was just an indirect one too: Showcase the Azure Cloud's capabilities.

 

 

 

 

One of the reasons, but I wouldn't say the only one by far.

[SAS_Storebror]

Admittedly if it was the only one, M$ would be a bit insane.

However attempting to earn money from selling the game wasn't a reason to do it, because in that case "insanity" won't cut it.

 

It's all about auxiliary business, and that works in CFS genre the very same way.

 

Mike

[Feathered_IV]

A million copies sold already, according to an article in PC Pilot magazine.  That may well be more than every DCS, CloD and BoX title put together.   

[AndyJWest]

33 minutes ago, Feathered_IV said:

A million copies sold already, according to an article in PC Pilot magazine.  That may well be more than every DCS, CloD and BoX title put together.   

 

Is that correct? I'd like to see actual data for the sales of all three, though that is probably unobtainable. If it is true, I'd have thought it would be a reason why Microsoft would be less likely to want to get involved with combat flight simulation again. Back in the original CFS days, the market was less niche. 

 

Anyway, its speculation, based, as far as I can see on nothing more than people wanting it to happen. And if you want it to happen, why confine yourselves to speculating about MS doing it? There are plenty of other game studios that could find the up-front dosh to do it, if they thought it had potential. 

[Tycoon]

1 hour ago, AndyJWest said:

 

 

 

Anyway, its speculation, based, as far as I can see on nothing more than people wanting it to happen. And if you want it to happen, why confine yourselves to speculating about MS doing it? There are plenty of other game studios that could find the up-front dosh to do it, if they thought it had potential. 

Maybe because, uh you know, ms just released the first AAA flight sim in a generation??

 

Don't forget msfs is projected to sell a lot of hardware since it's one of the new pc benchmarks, this article says 2.6 billion worth over 3 years. And all those pcs will be running windows.

 

https://www.vg247.com/2020/08/23/microsoft-flight-simulator-hardware-sales/#:~:text=Microsoft Flight Simulator is expected to produce %242.6 billion in hardware sales,-By Cian Maher&text=Recent analysis suggests that Microsoft,over the next three years.

 

 

 

Edited October 15, 2020 by Tycoon

[AndyJWest]

So how many new Windows operating system sales would a new MS combat flight simulator generate?

[Tycoon]

23 minutes ago, AndyJWest said:

So how many new Windows operating system sales would a new MS combat flight simulator generate?

I don't know, it's not just that look at the big picture, microsoft flight simulator isn't a hand to mouth product like dcs or GB, it is a part of a much bigger project. Anyone who follows Gaming developments even a little knows microsoft is trying to become the main force in gaming, their massive buyout of Bethesda, and their expansive game pass to mention a few. Their main opponent is sony, and sony's main feature that has kept them ahead is high quality and highly demanded exclusive AAA titles. Microsoft obviously realizes they have to have their own unique AAA titles, and that is exactly what microsoft flight simulator is, and which is why btw it launched on xbox game pass. 

 

Considering the success microsoft fligth sim has been sales wise and especially review wise (not that I have any respect for reviewers, but execs do for sure) It seems that it wouldn't be too hard for them to greenlight a cfs. Remember that kind of unique, exclusive and popular product is exactly what they need right now.

 

And yeah you're right it's pure speculation, but when you look at the big picture it at least seems possible, maybe even likely.

Edited October 15, 2020 by Tycoon

[messsucher]

4 minutes ago, Tycoon said:

I don't know, it's not just that look at the big picture, microsoft flight simulator isn't a hand to mouth product like dcs or GB, it is a part of a much bigger project. Anyone who follows Gaming developments even a little knows microsoft is trying to become the main force in gaming, their massive buyout of Bethesda, and their expansive game pass to mention a few. Their main opponent is sony, and sony's main feature that has kept them ahead is high quality and highly demanded exclusive AAA titles. Microsoft obviously realizes they have to have their own unique AAA titles, and that is exactly what microsoft flight simulator is, and which is why btw it launched on xbox game pass. 

 

Considering the success microsoft fligth sim has been sales wise and especially review wise (not that I have any respect for reviewers, but execs do for sure) It seems that it wouldn't be too hard for them to greenlight a cfs. Remember that kind of unique, exclusive and popular product is exactly what they need right now.

 

And yeah you're right it's pure speculation, but when you look at the big picture it at least seems possible, maybe even likely.

 

Yeah, this, always good to be aware of the big picture.

[AndyJWest]

5 minutes ago, Tycoon said:

I don't know, it's not just that look at the big picture, microsoft flight simulator isn't a hand to mouth product like dcs or GB, it is a part of a much bigger project. Anyone who follows Gaming developments even a little knows microsoft is trying to become the main force in gaming, their massive buyout of Bethesda, and their expansive game pass to mention a few. Their main opponent is sony, and sony's main feature that has kept them ahead is high quality and highly demanded exclusive AAA titles. Microsoft obviously realizes they have to have their own unique AAA titles, and that is exactly what microsoft flight simulator is, and which is why btw it launched on xbox game pass. 

 

Considering the success microsoft fligth sim has been sales wise and especially review wise (not that I have any respect for reviewers, but execs do for sure) It seems that it wouldn't be too hard for them to greenlight a cfs. Remember that kind of unique, exclusive and popular product is exactly what they need right now.

 

And yeah you're right it's pure speculation, but when you look at the big picture it at least seems possible, maybe even likely.

 

Possible? Yes, obviously. But likely? If MS are trying to expand further into gaming, why go for a product with a niche market? I'd have thought the best strategy would be to look for the broadest potential customer base. 'Popular' seems a strange word to use to describe the current CFS situation, when compared to almost anything within mainstream gaming.

[Feathered_IV]

9 minutes ago, Tycoon said:

Considering the success Microsoft flight sim has been sales wise and especially review wise (not that I have any respect for reviewers, but execs do for sure) It seems that it wouldn't be too hard for them to greenlight a cfs. Remember that kind of unique, exclusive and popular product is exactly what they need right now.

 

With a million sales already, I am sure there are development teams out there right now who are just busting to pitch their services to produce a cfs under license.  

[Lusekofte]

5 hours ago, SAS_Storebror said:

Mind you the economical reason behind MSFS 2020 was just an indirect one too: Showcase the Azure Cloud's capabilities.

An MS CFS could do the same, just for a younger audience.

 

Mike

Oh. I heard rumors that they sold millions of copies. If that is just secondary motif   We can call it a success. 
I be all over a ww 2 sim. Unlike others here. i’ll care not if they produce same planes we have in GB. I care about playability

[Tycoon]

4 minutes ago, AndyJWest said:

 

Possible? Yes, obviously. But likely? If MS are trying to expand further into gaming, why go for a product with a niche market? 

Well they are expanding on all fronts, Bethesda is the most obvious example, but I mean they already have a million copies, that's not niche, at least not for microsoft right now.

[Lusekofte]

11 minutes ago, AndyJWest said:

But likely? If MS are trying to expand further into gaming, why go for a product with a niche market?

For one To two year ago. I wood agree. Now there is popping up hardware manufactorers all over the place. I am not sure we are in a small niche group anymore. I believe we are in a big niche group

[AndyJWest]

1 minute ago, Tycoon said:

Well they are expanding on all fronts, Bethesda is the most obvious example, but I mean they already have a million copies, that's not niche, at least not for microsoft right now.

 

I described the CFS market as niche, not the civilian one. 

 

But whatever, if people want to build their dreams around Microsoft making exactly what they personally want, good for them. I'll believe it when I see it. And then assess it on its actual merits, rather than wishful thinking. I've been around in air combat simulation long enough not to fall for hype for actual products, and I'm certainly not going to get my hopes up for something that nobody but forum members seems to think is coming.

[Tycoon]

5 minutes ago, AndyJWest said:

 

I described the CFS market as niche, not the civilian one. 

 

 

I'd say before microsoft flight sim 2020 that home civilian flight simulation wasn't much bigger than cfs, at least not as much as you're making it out to be. But I'm just guessing,I wasn't  doing civilian until msfs 2020 released .

Edited October 15, 2020 by Tycoon

[AndyJWest]

Just now, Tycoon said:

I'd say before microsoft flight sim 2020 that home civilian flight simulation wasn't much bigger than cfs, at least not as much as you're making it out to be. 

 

I'd say that the evidence from the number of third-party suppliers of both software and hardware for the civilian flight sim market suggests otherwise,

[Tycoon]

3 minutes ago, AndyJWest said:

 

I'd say that the evidence from the number of third-party suppliers of both software and hardware for the civilian flight sim market suggests otherwise,

Well as far as software goes you can't actually develop for the current cfs, at least not like flight sim x or xplane, being open source.  

[AndyJWest]

3 minutes ago, Tycoon said:

Well as far as software goes you can't actually develop for the current cfs, at least not like flight sim x or xplane, being open source.  

 

Neither are 'open source'. 

Edited October 15, 2020 by AndyJWest

[CanadaOne]

Don't know if it was mentioned yet but...

 

https://stormbirds.blog/2020/10/13/indiafoxtecho-reports-mb-339-ready-for-flight-simulator-marketplace/

 

A fast mover will be available soon.  

[Tycoon]

21 minutes ago, AndyJWest said:

 

DCS

Yeah that one too, it's not open source like xplane or flight sim x, Eagle Dynamics has control over 3rd party related content, yes you can develop for it but for most small developers if you're making a single plane the other options are better and easier, A little while ago I was watching a video covering some guys p 38 which was coming to xplane and maybe flight sim x and p3d I don't remember, anyways they said it wouldn't come to dcs because although they wanted to the DCS engine was difficult to work with compared to the aforementioned engines. That's just one example I know but whatever.

 

Anyways I think we are missing the point here, microsoft fligth sim 2020 dwarfs every civilian and cfs game combined. If microsoft releases a cfs it will be bigger than all of those as well outside of msfs 2020. They don't just want those who fly flight sims, they want those plus 100x the aamount of new players.

 

Found the video, time stamped.

 

Edited October 15, 2020 by Tycoon

[AndyJWest]

3 minutes ago, Tycoon said:

...they want...

 

You've offered no evidence that MS want anything from the combat flight sim market.

[Tycoon]

1 minute ago, AndyJWest said:

 

You've offered no evidence that MS want anything from the combat flight sim market.

No one could have offered evidence that MS wanted anything from the civilian flight sim market before Microsoft flight simulator 2020 was announced either, so I fail to see what your point is. 

[Lusekofte]

In many ways DCS is cfs answer to a civ sim. They push out aircraft without any context to anything.  Same complexity. 
I wish I knew the marked for our hobby. 
There are no proof for any cfs comming. But I know if the idea has not struck them already, it will if people talk about it, more the merrier.  
I dont know, I hope they do 2020 will not keep me occupied, in the long run. I need more and I know that more is not in the marked today

[AndyJWest]

Tycoon, my point is that you stated that MS 'wanted' something. Without any evidence that they do. 

Edited October 15, 2020 by AndyJWest

[Hoots]

Andy, Tycoon, let it go now...

[AndyJWest]

Just now, Hoots said:

Andy, Tycoon, let it go now...

 

Yeah, this is all off-topic anyway. If the discussion belonged anywhere (which is questionable, given the lack of anything concrete) it would probably be in a thread entitled 'combat flight simulators we'd like to imagine existing' or something.

[Tycoon]

10 minutes ago, AndyJWest said:

Tycoon, my point is that you stated that MS 'wanted' something. Without any evidence that they do. 

Everything I've said is my personal speculation, I'm not claiming anything as fact.

4 minutes ago, AndyJWest said:

 

Yeah, this is all off-topic anyway. If the discussion belonged anywhere (which is questionable, given the lack of anything concrete) it would probably be in a thread entitled 'combat flight simulators we'd like to imagine existing' or something.

Lol alright I'll stop now, but really this is all very casual speculation, just me stating why I think cfs is coming, I don't know why it bothered you so much, it shouldn't.?‍♂️

Edited October 15, 2020 by Tycoon

[ZachariasX]

I just try to think how much work it will be to tune the FS20 world back seventy years in time. For how much more business really? There‘s still WT and GB on both ends of the spectrum in that market. The ones ready to spend money for shooting up things in aircraft already do so and buy both from GB or DCS.

 

If you are going for the DCS market, then there is P3Dpro out there already. LM actually turned what once was FSX into a full fledged combat sim. And that runs now DX12 and VR is a big thing for LM. It is deliberately priced outside the gameing maket, but as for professionals, such a sim is there. And it looks good enough. That market is not interested in lots of aspects that make a game a good game. You can see that in products A2A Simulations is creating for the Air Force. While flight model and systems are the same level, lots of other things like a maintenance hangar, persistent damage, specific wear of parts etc. are simply not required. Both DCS and P3Dpro happily coexist in the „professional“ market, as Russia is certainly not buying from LM to train their crews and vice versa.

 

As of now, MS better invests in getting what they have now somewhat functional beyond the „ooohhh“ and „aaahhh“ looks. If it wasn‘t for the awesomeness of the looks, FS20 would have gotten a trashing in reviews. Make no mistake, ANY simulator released took years to make it work. FS20 is no different. 

[AndyJWest]

Back on topic, I made more progress on my world tour today. And even caught the occasional glimpse of Africa through holes in the cloud. Abidjan to Lomé. I'm trying to decide whether I should cut across the ocean to Douala (Cameroon) on my next leg, or follow the coast via Nigeria, and do it in two legs. If it is going to remain as cloudy as this, I may as well take the direct route. 

 

[wheeliemonsta]

23 hours ago, DD_Arthur said:

Difficult to judge whether anything is worth the money as I suppose it depends on personal circumstances but as an addition to MS flight sim it’s a delight. Very pleasant to fly, looks gorgeous and has some really nice features.  I’ve never flown anything with an Xbox controller before and as you can tell there’s a certain lack of fine adjustment just when you need it most. The drone camera function is a lovely touch ?

 

Yes, the drone camera with the Xbox controller works really well - just wish the Active Pause wasn't such a calamity!

 

I'm eagerly awaiting the VR implementation - still can't get used to pancake flying no matter how much I try, so I think I'll maybe grab the Mooney once I'm back in 3D and can really enjoy the great views from that cockpit 

(Reverb G2 on pre-order, so hopefully not too much longer to wait ?‍♂️)

[CanadaOne]

I want to do some long distance touring but I haven't found the right plane yet. I want to be able to go fast when I want and have a ton of cockpit visibility. That means either a WWII fighter or a modern jet. As stated, I'd drop good cash this very second to have my DCS Harrier ported over, drop tanks and all. That would be the best of all worlds. 

 

VSTOL-ing all over the world. Be still my heart... 

[AndyJWest]

While a Harrier wouldn't be the first thing to come to mind if I was suggesting an aircraft for an MSFS world tour, I can see the attraction. Fly fast. Fly slow. Land anywhere. Sounds good.

 

Trying to do it in the real world would be a logistic nightmare, I'd imagine. Probably end up ingesting just a little too much sand on some obscure airfield, and having to get a new engine shipped out. Though I suppose if you can afford a Harrier in the first place, you can probably afford the running costs. ?

[Lusekofte]

1 hour ago, CanadaOne said:

Don't know if it was mentioned yet but...

 

https://stormbirds.blog/2020/10/13/indiafoxtecho-reports-mb-339-ready-for-flight-simulator-marketplace/

 

A fast mover will be available soon.  

I did not want this to drown. Here is a perfect toy for fs 2020

[AndyJWest]

3 minutes ago, 216th_LuseKofte said:

Here is a perfect toy for fs 2020

 

Needs a propeller. Real aeroplanes have at least one propeller, preferably more. And odd smells. And a tendency to leak. Where's my PBY?

[Feathered_IV]

57 minutes ago, CanadaOne said:

I want to do some long distance touring but I haven't found the right plane yet. I want to be able to go fast when I want and have a ton of cockpit visibility. That means either a WWII fighter or a modern jet. As stated, I'd drop good cash this very second to have my DCS Harrier ported over, drop tanks and all. That would be the best of all worlds. 

 

I'm hanging on for a Dragon Rapide or similar golden oldie.  I don't care much for the default aircraft with their plastic dashboards and new car smell.

[Tektolnes]

I'm doing my round the world trip in the Mooney + the Garmin 530 mod. It's a pretty extended trip at 65,000nm so going to take a while considering most legs I've planned out are around the 100nm mark. Made it down from Donegal through UK, France, Alps, Croatia, Greece and into North Africa now with Carthage next stop. Regularly blows my mind how good the standard scenery looks e.g. just a random screenshot somewhere not far from Tripoli yesterday:

 

 

[Trooper117]

2 hours ago, 216th_LuseKofte said:

I believe we are in a big niche group

 

I like your thinking!