Microsoft Flight Sim 2020

[DD_Arthur]

13 hours ago, ZachariasX said:

Speaking of, can you start that one in El Alto airport, La Paz? I could land there, but most of the times when I start it up, engines cut out a couple of seconds after start.

 

Yeah, something is going on at La Paz. Engines will start....and then stop.

 

[Monostripezebra]

On 7/29/2021 at 4:20 PM, AndyJWest said:

Been messing around with this:

 

Even in very blustery live weather, I managed to land it on the Round Pond in Kensington Gardens, and take off again with no difficulty at all, and I think with better conditions it will cope with something much smaller. Is there an Olympic-sized swimming pool anywhere?

 

Probably wasn't the best day to be messing around over London with multiplayer traffic on (I forgot to turn it off). The XBox crowd were out in force enjoying their new sim, doing barrel rolls in A320s on the approach to Heathrow, and flying low over the Thames.

 

 

That looks really nice.. I only have the normal version, though. In Tokyo there are some roof-top pools that might be worth a try.

The amount of people smashing into the tower bridge was probably legendary...

 

 

 

September 23 would also be a good day for a joint Bleriot rememberance flight:

 

Jorge Chávez made the first alps crossing over the Simplon Pass but broke his aircraft on approach and subsequently died. I think he deserves remembering.

 

I also kind of find those early aviation meets and races are pretty cool, just found this nice site on some.

 

 

other then that, I still struggle with the stock A320, but I gotta re-do all the landing challenges just for perfection sake ;=P

 

 

Edited July 30, 2021 by Monostripezebra

[ZachariasX]

6 hours ago, Monostripezebra said:

September 23 would also be a good day for a joint Bleriot rememberance flight:

 

Jorge Chávez made the first alps crossing over the Simplon Pass but broke his aircraft on approach and subsequently died. I think he deserves remembering

The elevation data of the Simplon region and the Gondo canyon is absolutely miserable. There are freeware LIDAR that help the scenery a lot, but where the Italian and Swiss elevation data merge, the artifacts are rather spectacular…

[danielprates]

On 7/29/2021 at 11:51 AM, Feathered_IV said:

Managed to run the update quite quickly and smoothly.  40gb over about 4.5 hours

 

It is things like this that are keeping me from buying this "microsoft download simulator".

[ZachariasX]

49 minutes ago, danielprates said:

It is things like this that are keeping me from buying this "microsoft download simulator".

After a while, you‘ll look at terrabytes as you did at kilobytes… 

[Feathered_IV]

The download speed is bonkers fast.  They must have some very powerful servers.

[DD_Arthur]

LOTS of extra performance with this update

 

 

Quite a few issues with this update too.......

[CUJO_1970]

 

[Gambit21]

On 7/31/2021 at 6:09 AM, ZachariasX said:

After a while, you‘ll look at terrabytes as you did at kilobytes… 

 

Not when your connection is still just as slow

 

350 - 420 kbs at the fastest.

[Feathered_IV]

How did you download DCS?   I think that was about 65gb for me and the MS is about 85 when compressed. 

[Gambit21]

9 minutes ago, Feathered_IV said:

How did you download DCS?   I think that was about 65gb for me and the MS is about 85 when compressed. 

 

Over days and days.

I think the initial download with the DCS World, and the Dora which I purchased eons ago took 2 days or just over.

Then the F-14 and Syria map, another 2 and a half days. Large updates can take the same - days.

 

So I'm not excited to get another sim that will require this, especially since tying up the bandwidth for 60 hours straight tends to annoy the wife.

I'm letting BoS languish for now.

 

 

 

On 7/29/2021 at 7:20 AM, AndyJWest said:

Been messing around with this:

 

Even in very blustery live weather, I managed to land it on the Round Pond in Kensington Gardens, and take off again with no difficulty at all, and I think with better conditions it will cope with something much smaller. Is there an Olympic-sized swimming pool anywhere?

 

Probably wasn't the best day to be messing around over London with multiplayer traffic on (I forgot to turn it off). The XBox crowd were out in force enjoying their new sim, doing barrel rolls in A320s on the approach to Heathrow, and flying low over the Thames.

 

 

 

 

Any further comment/improvements with the water physics?

I'd love to fly the Grumman Goose eventually.

Edited August 4, 2021 by Gambit21

[AndyJWest]

They've added some fairly basic 'wake' graphics, but as far as I can tell, the only obvious change they've made to physics modelling is to allow amphibians to taxi on and off shore, which didn't work before. Water rudders don't seem to work, making turning while taxiing on water tricky, and aircraft seem not to respond to waves in the way you might expect, so I'd call it a work in progress.

 

I've not tried the Goose for some time, but as far as I'm aware it is theoretically still being worked on, as freeware. Just not a priority, as the developer is also working on payware aircraft. It still has issues with handling, both in flight, and on the water, but its free...

 

There is also a payware Grumman Widgeon available, and from the look of it, graphically it is a lot higher quality. Comments mostly seem to be favourable, other than with regard to questionable DRM. https://forums.flightsimulator.com/t/new-release-flysimwares-grumman-g-44a-widgeon-seaplane/407725

[Gambit21]

On 8/4/2021 at 4:11 PM, AndyJWest said:

They've added some fairly basic 'wake' graphics, but as far as I can tell, the only obvious change they've made to physics modelling is to allow amphibians to taxi on and off shore, which didn't work before. Water rudders don't seem to work, making turning while taxiing on water tricky, and aircraft seem not to respond to waves in the way you might expect, so I'd call it a work in progress.

 

I've not tried the Goose for some time, but as far as I'm aware it is theoretically still being worked on, as freeware. Just not a priority, as the developer is also working on payware aircraft. It still has issues with handling, both in flight, and on the water, but its free...

 

There is also a payware Grumman Widgeon available, and from the look of it, graphically it is a lot higher quality. Comments mostly seem to be favourable, other than with regard to questionable DRM. https://forums.flightsimulator.com/t/new-release-flysimwares-grumman-g-44a-widgeon-seaplane/407725

 

Thanks for this...a worthy stand-in for a time I'd think.

How large is your install with a few add-on aircraft.

 

At 83 GB initial install size, I can think about doing it at some point.

Plenty of room on my SSD's...just bandwidth concerns.

 

 

 

 

Edited August 6, 2021 by Gambit21

[AndyJWest]

The last download file I have for the Goose, from December last year, was about 580 GB. It was compressed, and seems to expand to about 1.2 GB when installed in the community folder.  Other aircraft I've installed seem to be similar in size, or a little larger:

 

Bell 47:  2.1 GB

Bleriot XI: 1.2 GB

Caudron Rafale: 2.1 GB

Discus: 680 MB

XCub floatplane (the mod from Bush League Legends, not the new stock one): 350 MB

 

These are all small, simple aircraft. I'd imagine the more complex stuff will take up more room, as will extra skins etc.

 

I tend to keep backups of the community folder (it needs to be emptied before updates), and only copy aircraft back to the folder as and when I need them. This keeps it small, which speeds up loading time, and reduces opportunities for clashes between mods. Some people seem to dump everything they can find into the community folder, with predictable results...

[AndyJWest]

Hydroplaning!

 

Tends to bounce, and you have to watch your speed, obviously - you can get down a little bit below your normal stall speed and 'water taxi', but there is a limit, and with damage on you will crash if you get too slow. Safer to stay fast, unless you are actually trying to land.

 

This is the Bush League Legends XCub mod, with tundra tyres. I don't know if the wheel size makes any difference, though in theory it should. I'm flying on the Snake River, on the Oragon / Idaho border.  Lots of small islands to land on, but most of them seem to have trees in awkward places. What I really want are small gravel islets with no obstructions.

 

 

 

Edited August 6, 2021 by AndyJWest

[Monostripezebra]

I am just discovering my love for airliner landings again..

 

 

[Gambit21]

7 hours ago, AndyJWest said:

Hydroplaning!

 

Tends to bounce, and you have to watch your speed, obviously - you can get down a little bit below your normal stall speed and 'water taxi', but there is a limit, and with damage on you will crash if you get too slow. Safer to stay fast, unless you are actually trying to land.

 

This is the Bush League Legends XCub mod, with tundra tyres. I don't know if the wheel size makes any difference, though in theory it should. I'm flying on the Snake River, on the Oragon / Idaho border.  Lots of small islands to land on, but most of them seem to have trees in awkward places. What I really want are small gravel islets with no obstructions.

 

 

 

 

You need Wa State, Skagit River

[AndyJWest]

11 hours ago, Gambit21 said:

 

You need Wa State, Skagit River

 

Perfect!

 

[Monostripezebra]

I decided to try some waterskiing with the Husky.. but i kinda feel like it is not that great for that, the Carbon Cub is better in almost everything and fun.

 

 

[AndyJWest]

The only time I tried skis (with the Zlin Shock Ultra, I think) ended in an immediate crash.  Is that with damage off?

[Monostripezebra]

1 hour ago, AndyJWest said:

The only time I tried skis (with the Zlin Shock Ultra, I think) ended in an immediate crash.  Is that with damage off?

 

No.. (but I did cut the crashes out, all 4 attempts in the vid ended in the water after a while.. those were just the best skiing parts)

It seems, it crashes about 2/3 gearleg in the water and does not produce any upforce (in the ski-Husky) so you can not balance or rest it on the water and ski for prolonged time, as it kind of oscillates up and down in the scenic camera view, or at least I haven´t got it really stable trimmed out so far.

 

 

[AndyJWest]

The only aircraft I've found so far which definitely produces uplift is the tundra wheels XCub mod. Somewhere there is a screenshot from Microsoft of what is presumably one of the stock aircraft doing it - I'm not sure which one.

 

Even the tundra XCub can't really be trimmed to ride the surface for long, in my experience - it tends to get into bounces of increasing height if you don't correct it.

[Feathered_IV]

A last look at Hokkaido before heading further north east and along the Kurile Islands to Etorofu.

 

 

 

[ZachariasX]

2 hours ago, Feathered_IV said:

A last look at Hokkaido before heading further north east and along the Kurile Islands to Etorofu.

Can you check the supercharger behaviour, does rpm affect MAP above critical altitude?

[Feathered_IV]

Hi Zach.  Sorry to be dim, but what do you mean by MAP? 

I got up to 40k over Kamchatsk and that certainly seemed critical.  There were two bangs a few minutes apart and the whole airframe gave a shudder.  The throttle ceased to function and I had black smoke trailing behind me.  Prop pitch and fuel mixture seemed to stop working too.  I had to put it down on a flat stretch of coast.  The flaps extended alright, but the gear did not extend and I had to belly it in.  Now that I think of it, the supercharger light was out at the time.  Don't know if that is significant or not.  ?

[ZachariasX]

1 hour ago, Feathered_IV said:

Hi Zach.  Sorry to be dim, but what do you mean by MAP? 

I meant that the boost indicator at critical altitude requires max. rpm (3000) to provide for max. boost.

 

It means that in case the Spitfire you are flying is a Mk.IX LF with a Merlin 66, then when reaching ~9800 ft., then you see that your boost gauge starts to drop from +18. See here:

Around 13‘000 ft or so, the barometric sensor should change in the second gear (MS to FS) and you suddenly have +18 lbs. boost again on your boost dial, at the price of about 400 hp less on your propshaft that will not be indindicated on any dial in your cockpit.

 

If you are now flying at 3000 rpm at 9000 ft. and you decide to hurt the engine a lot by pulling the rpm governor back to 2000 rpm, you should see the boost gauge drop, indicating a reduced manifold pressue. At 2000 rpm, the supercharger that is directly geared to the crankshaft spins at 33% less rpm, decreasing its pumping capacity. Then it cannot provide for 18 lbs. boost anymore, hence the boost dial drops.

 

Once the barometric sensor shifts from MS to FS gear during a climb to 10‘000 ft., the supercharger spins faster in relation to the crankshaft and at 3000 rpm will provide for more air than required for maintaining +18 lbs. boost. In that moment, the excess air is vented through a wastegate orin case of the Merlin it is throttled back by the boost governor, preventing the overboosting of the system. It is obvious that now, the engine is not as efficient as running at critical altitude because it requires added power to make the blower spin faster. As you climb toward critical altitude at 21‘000 ft., progressively less air will have to be  vented though the wastegate until at critical altitude, all the air the second stage of the blower can provide is required to maintain +18 boost and nothing gets vented anymore through the wastegate.

 

If all the air that the blower can provide is used for the engine (at critical altitude of the lower blower or at critical altitude of the higher blower and above) any reduction of the supercharger capacity shows directly on the MAP/boost gauge.

 

Below critical altitudes, you can reduce rpm until the supercharger capacity drops below the air volume that is in excess of providing +18 boost, and then you will see a drop in boost.

 

As the Spitfire 9 and most certainly the Mk.IX LF with the Merlin 66 have an automatic gear switch, you go at 24k ft or so, put on 3000 rpm and it should give you a tad less than +18 boost. If you then walk your rpm governor back, you should see a direct reduction on what the boost gauge shows you.

 

I ask this, because the DC-6 does not show such behaviour. RPM is independent of what is shown on the MAP/boost gauge At any altitude, as you have it in unaspirated engines. This sucks, because it precludes any goofing around in milking the most from your engine at altitude. While it does as the manual says to a certain altitude, it just is way wrong when you need that extra power and even can give idiotic results. So far, I think it is a limitation of MSFS not being able to describe superchargers. If that is the case, you‘d see the behaviour of unaspirated engines in supercharged engines as well. The Corsair would have a faulty supercharger behaviour as well. I won‘t be buying the plane if one of the most fundamental aspects of the aircraft is wrong. The DC-6 at least has ulterior charm.

 

Edited August 8, 2021 by ZachariasX

[Feathered_IV]

Thanks very much for the explanation.   I’m hardly test pilot material as my love of aircraft is more aesthetic than technical.  However I would say (somewhat hesitantly) that the Spitfire does appear to do that at higher altitudes.   It may need to be borne out by some of the more qualified people around here though.  

[Monostripezebra]

I am still having fun in the Himalayas

 

 

[Lusekofte]

Looks like the x box men are getting a 747 / cessna kit. 

It has a switch making you choose from X box to PC. 

 

[Feathered_IV]

I think I’m fine with my MS Sidewinder sitting on top of an upturned waste paper basket.  I really want that effing Dragon Rapide though!

[Trooper117]

Well good stuff for the X men... how do they plan to work rudder input?

[AndyJWest]

4 hours ago, Trooper117 said:

Well good stuff for the X men... how do they plan to work rudder input?

 

'Trigger' type paddles on the yoke. This thing will sell for $349.95/£329.99.

 

https://uk.turtlebeach.com/pages/velocity-one-flight

 

 

Edited August 16, 2021 by AndyJWest

[DD_fruitbat]

4 hours ago, Trooper117 said:

Well good stuff for the X men... how do they plan to work rudder input?

Whats a rudder?

[AndyJWest]

2 minutes ago, DD_fruitbat said:

Whats a rudder?

 

In most MSFS aircraft, a pointless irrelevance once you get airborne apparently, since adverse yaw seems not be be a thing, and coordinated turns come automatically. I think this is at least partly down to developers not making full use of what the flight model is capable of though, since adverse yaw can be modelled - see the Bleriot XI, which has it so bad that moving the joystick sideways is an adventure all of its own, and you are generally far better off steering with your feet. Or taking off with the aircraft already pointing in the direction you intend to go. ?

[DD_fruitbat]

I think its my distinct lack of enthusiasm for the flight models that I'm thinking of uninstalling, that coupled with the more pressing fact that MS2020 and two versions of DCS (stable and beta) on a 1 terabyte hard drive only leaves me with a 100 meg, and what with the mossie bought, with that installed in both versions of DCS, will not be enough space.

Edited August 16, 2021 by DD_fruitbat

[Lusekofte]

6 hours ago, AndyJWest said:

 

In most MSFS aircraft, a pointless irrelevance once you get airborne apparently, since adverse yaw seems not be be a thing, and coordinated turns come automatically. I think this is at least partly down to developers not making full use of what the flight model is capable of though, since adverse yaw can be modelled - see the Bleriot XI, which has it so bad that moving the joystick sideways is an adventure all of its own, and you are generally far better off steering with your feet. Or taking off with the aircraft already pointing in the direction you intend to go. ?

 

5 hours ago, DD_fruitbat said:

I think its my distinct lack of enthusiasm for the flight models that I'm thinking of uninstalling, that coupled with the more pressing fact that MS2020 and two versions of DCS (stable and beta) on a 1 terabyte hard drive only leaves me with a 100 meg, and what with the mossie bought, with that installed in both versions of DCS, will not be enough space.

I almost never talk about FM anymore, because I tend to talk myself into a corner. At least my thinking about this sim is backed by two.

I read they are not completely satisfied with the various systems either. So what is left_ 

I fly it as a third priority sim, with my time available, right now it means not. And when I do it is sort of recce missions for a walk in a mountain. Look what behind the peak. And for this it is relative good in my area 

[Gambit21]

On 8/16/2021 at 8:18 AM, DD_fruitbat said:

I think its my distinct lack of enthusiasm for the flight models that I'm thinking of uninstalling, that coupled with the more pressing fact that MS2020 and two versions of DCS (stable and beta) on a 1 terabyte hard drive only leaves me with a 100 meg, and what with the mossie bought, with that installed in both versions of DCS, will not be enough space.

 

 

BTW so far I fail to see the need for two DCS installs. Beta alone seems to do the trick, but you fly more than I do, and fly more aircraft so I'm guessing you have your reasons.

[dburne]

17 hours ago, Gambit21 said:

 

 

BTW so far I fail to see the need for two DCS installs. Beta alone seems to do the trick, but you fly more than I do, and fly more aircraft so I'm guessing you have your reasons.

 

I reduced my DCS to only open beta a few years ago, as I found I just was never using the stable branch.

I still have MSFS installed but have not used it in a bit, between IL-2 and DCS I have my hands full, also occasional made for VR games.

Edited August 19, 2021 by dburne

[Lusekofte]

In my opinion.and for my use there is no need for stable version. Because Beta is stable.

[AndyJWest]

Yeah, I keep a 'stable' version of DCS as a backup, but have rarely used it. The only real use for it, for me, is if a beta update breaks something fundamental, which fortunately doesn't happen that often.

 

If I'd done what I'd intended to and put MSFS on the same SSD as my two DCS installs, I'd be running out of space, but perhaps fortunately, I misunderstood the weird way MSFS installs itself and it ended up on my C drive instead. Not ideal, for several reasons, but at least it means I can put off installing more fast storage for a bit. I'll probably get myself either a 2TB or 4TB SATA SSD, and move the 'stable' DCS version to that, along with some other stuff, and then think about reinstalling MSFS on the same 1TB M.2 drive as the beta DCS. They should both fit, for now at least, and both clearly benefit from fast access.

 

The other thing I need to do, storage wise, is delete some of the 3 TB or so of DCS & MSFS video recordings I've managed to save since March last year - most of them are Hornet landings (and bolters etc), which I've managed to accumulate in quantity since I got into the habit of recording every landing attempt, just so I can see how I cocked it up each time. ☹️ There are a few _OK_ landings in there, worth saving just to remind myself that it can be done, but the rest are just occupying a spinning rust drive until I get round to sorting them. This is, needless to say, a 'first world problem' if ever there was one...