Pimax strikes back

[SCG_Fenris_Wolf]

Hey fellow VR enthusiasts,

 

 

so, Pimax had their announcements. It's looking great for VR, and its future.

 

 

The Pimax5K+ will support 120Hz in its smallest FOV setting (horizontal 130°, vertical 115°, larger than Index) in the next PiTool.

They are also shipping the Modular Audio Strap to backers, that has a sound system that does not touch the ears.

 

3 face cushions of different thickness will get sent for free, for eye retention (what some users had done themselves already, a clarity and distortion fix).

Firmware upgrade releases that improve the black levels and colours on the LCD panels.

For backers, the Lighthouse v2.0 stations start shipping in 2 weeks.

Backers who don't want to wait for the Pimax Controllers (spring 2020) can upgrade/sidegrade to the Index Controllers.

Anyone who sidegraded from 8K to 5K+ will be able to use their vouchers.

PiTool went open source, today. The devs continue to upgrade it. If you are into Python, rock on.

Hand tracking module and cooling fans ship December 18th, 2019.

 

Eye Tracking will release December 15th, 2019, but comes at a cost.

 

 

So, except for the price, the 5K+ will be the best headset on the market for enthusiasts, until the 8KX gets released on December 18th, 2019. That thing is feature complete and into production. 2 x 3840 x 2160 pixels native through a DP1.4 cable, and can optionally use an upscaler if the application is too demanding. 1300, includes the modular audio strap. Backers get a discount to start with, and can use their vouchers as well. People who own Pimax headsets already can participate in an upgrade plan and get additional discounts on the 8KX.

 

 

The 8K+ also looks very interesting - it uses RGB panels of higher resolution than the Reverb, and has a 15% higher panel utilisation than the 8K - but uses a (new) upscaler and doesn't feature 120Hz like the 5K+.

 

Interesting times. VR moves to Gen 2.0 on December 2019. And here I thought, it would not be this year.. very happy! ?

Edited September 24, 2019 by SCG_Fenris_Wolf

[ICDP]

I have $150 of vouchers and if the extra backer and upgrade discount takes the 8KX under $1000 I will buy one and sell on my 5K+.

[VBF-12_Stick-95]

As a KS backer, I'll believe all this when I have everything promised in my hands, including Eye Tracking for FREE, as per their Kickstarter goals.

[SCG_Fenris_Wolf]

Hey Stick, please don't be mad at me for this, merely the messenger: The eye-tracking (dynamic foveated rendering) was a stretch goal, it's not a reward. Kickstarter differentiates there... That part is a bummer indeed, I agree with you there, as I had misunderstood this. But the only bad point in my humble opinion. I am also looking to buy eye-tracking for the 8KX later - so the pricetag will be there. But it must work properly first. Then I shoot.

 

I got $200 of vouchers, add $200 of coupon for forfeiting the controllers. And Early Backer Discount, don't know how much that will be yet. Will sell my 2 Lighthouse v1.0 stations for another $200 (receiving LH2.0 in October). I'll put all this towards the 8KX.

Edited September 24, 2019 by SCG_Fenris_Wolf

[chiliwili69]

It is an impressive work for Pimax team.

In just 2 hours session they put on the table (with fix prices and dates) the most leading edge technology for hand tracking, eye tracking, panel resolution, etc, etc and all the improvements for comfort, audio, lens adapter, longer cable, etc, etc.

And on top of that they offer discounts for backers!

 

It is really nice that a really small company take the lead on the VR tech, doing VR devices for simulators (race, flight, space). Not an small niche.

 

My only concern is moving those 4K + 4K pixels, even at 72Hz will be a challenge. But DFR is there for that. Let´s see how well it works.

 

The interesting thing is the 8KX, that is 3840x2160 LCD per eye. This is the same vertical resolution than Reverb. But double horizontally spreaded over a larger horizontal FOV.

 

All this is announced just one day before Oculus Connect 6. Now we have 4K+4K with more than 140FOV. Exactly as Michael Abrash predicted at Oculus Connect 3 for 2021.

But one year earlier and not brought by Oculus!!!  ???:

 

 

[SCG_Fenris_Wolf]

Hahaha thanks for mentioning that man, that's hilarious! ?

 

But also ? since Palmer Luckey left... that guy was a driver. One of these geniuses. Well Oculus still has a place too though. A very important one - penetrate the market for VR, with affordable VR of good quality and easy of use for the masses.

[dburne]

2 hours ago, chiliwili69 said:

It is an impressive work for Pimax team.

In just 2 hours session they put on the table (with fix prices and dates) the most leading edge technology for hand tracking, eye tracking, panel resolution, etc, etc and all the improvements for comfort, audio, lens adapter, longer cable, etc, etc.

And on top of that they offer discounts for backers!

 

It is really nice that a really small company take the lead on the VR tech, doing VR devices for simulators (race, flight, space). Not an small niche.

 

My only concern is moving those 4K + 4K pixels, even at 72Hz will be a challenge. But DFR is there for that. Let´s see how well it works.

 

The interesting thing is the 8KX, that is 3840x2160 LCD per eye. This is the same vertical resolution than Reverb. But double horizontally spreaded over a larger horizontal FOV.

 

All this is announced just one day before Oculus Connect 6. Now we have 4K+4K with more than 140FOV. Exactly as Michael Abrash predicted at Oculus Connect 3 for 2021.

But one year earlier and not brought by Oculus!!!  ???:

 

 

 

I would not quite say " Now"... lol.

Wait - I thought their original headset was 4K.

 

But yes, Oculus already ceded the leadership in PC-VR back in May, surely you already saw that with Index and Reverb?? You do have both right?

Nothing new, their overall business strategy changed quite some time ago. I expect Pimax whenever they do deliver this, will see others meet and exceed them as well. 

 

Will see what next couple of days brings during OC6, however I do not expect anything other than software/experiences for the PC-VR side of things.  Stand Alone is where they will be focused imho...

 

Really not sure what the intent was in even bringing Oculus into this discussion for Pimax Chili - or OC3..

Edited September 25, 2019 by dburne

[blitze]

Chilli, I would not expect there to be any more overhead running the 8K-X over the current 8K.

 

Even the 8K+ looks like a good option with scaler improvements and same panels as the 8K-X.

Using the 8K at PiTool Render 0.75 and SteamR 100% on Normal FOV for me = Meh.  That is a render target of 2764 x 2432 and although it is ok looking at cockpit instruments, distance is not great and spotting and Id-ing aircraft is crap.

 

Bump the PiTool Render up to 1.25 with same SteaVR settings makes the experience much better with a render target of 4604 x 4052 but on my system without Foreated Rendering - performance is crap.  With the much improved panels, higher pixel density over the same area, 15% as shown, I don't think you will need much more to get great visuals on the new headsets.

 

The main thing is to get Foreated Rendering working with Il2 and stable.  Currently in Il2 (release) I can get there abouts of 60% stable in career.  It needs to be better and it can be as I have no issues with other titles in VR with Foreated Rendering on the same system.

 

I'm upgrading but not sure which yet.

[chiliwili69]

6 hours ago, dburne said:

Really not sure what the intent was in even bringing Oculus into this discussion for Pimax Chili - or OC3..

 

The intent was just to show the funny paradoxical case of Michael predicting something (4K+4K) for 2021 and other company reaching that in 2020.

And also the coincidence (not not) in the Pimax announcement date, just one day before OC6.

[A_radek]

I check both roadtoVR and Uploaddito occasionally but seen no notice of this announced and very interesting hardware.  So either I'm blind or is pimax locked out of the warmth? If so what's up with that?

[ICDP]

The 8KX has the improved scaler so it can be used as an 8K+, or when you have the GPU power the scaler can be totally bypassed.

 

I find my 5K+ to be an overall excellent VR HMD apart from two areas.  Blacks and colours.  If the 8KX has improved those areas as well as the resolution increase, I will be very happy.

Edited September 25, 2019 by ICDP

[SCG_Fenris_Wolf]

10 hours ago, SvAF/F16_radek said:

I check both roadtoVR and Uploaddito occasionally but seen no notice of this announced and very interesting hardware.  So either I'm blind or is pimax locked out of the warmth? If so what's up with that?

RoadToVR is not an independent website.

 

They had disclaimers at the bottom of their articles when reviewing Index, for example, they have since been removed afaik. Someone still found them on the mobile website.

 

I would not consider RoadToVR a good independent website. They're influencers, and buying space and attention there is how you market your products and how they feed their children.

[blitze]

The other issue with Pimax visibility on VR sites is that they are yet to have a VR bundle package.  They still lack base stations/light houses and controllers of which there are a couple factors behind that.

 

Lighthouses are to be supplied by Valve and they did a dirty on their supply to ensure the launch of the Index.  Over the next month or two, it is said that light houses to third parties, Pimax, will start to roll out.

 

Pimax has been developing controllers in house  known as the Sword controller which is sort of like the Index controllers with some differences.  It has not been easy for them but they are expected early in the New Year.  With the announcement, Pimax has offered to supply Index controllers as an alternative if people so required.

 

I think I will upgrade to the Pimax 8K-X myself.  Not sure about the upscaler in the 8K+ but the new panels would be a good improvement.  Many people are winging about paying for Eye Tracking but given it is supplied by a third party also and costs a bit, I can understand the cost.  With discount and a coupon, you can get it down to $99 I think which is reasonable and great for tracked Foreated Rendering.

 

Just have to work on Foreated Rendering stability within Il2 but last night I had a few flights with FFR on and no crashes. 

 

Bout to put an order down on a micro ATX AMD Ryzen 3800X system to replace the laptop.  Something portable still for travel but with desktop capabilities and I can throw my RTX2080 into the same box.  The extra cores and lack of thermal issues compared to a Laptop should be nice and see how load distribution across all the cores will work with Il2.

[VBF-12_Stick-95]

On 9/24/2019 at 5:18 PM, SCG_Fenris_Wolf said:

Hey Stick, please don't be mad at me for this, merely the messenger:

 

No issues, having never killed a messenger, only flogged them.

[blitze]

Some through the lens Macro shots of the 8K-X and 8K+ can be seen here.  Using a 5K as a reference point.

 

Thanks to Martin aka SweViver

https://forum.pimaxvr.com/t/sde-through-the-lenses-macro-pimax-8kx-vs-5k-just-a-teaser/22221/124

[A_radek]

11 hours ago, SCG_Fenris_Wolf said:

RoadToVR is not an independent website.

 

They had disclaimers at the bottom of their articles when reviewing Index, for example, they have since been removed afaik. Someone still found them on the mobile website.

 

I would not consider RoadToVR a good independent website. They're influencers, and buying space and attention there is how you market your products and how they feed their children.

Thanks for answering that one. Instead I'll just be visiting this sub-forum for proper vr news.

 /edit: ..and the best hardware reviews.

Edited September 26, 2019 by SvAF/F16_radek

[SCG_Fenris_Wolf]

10 hours ago, SvAF/F16_radek said:

Thanks for answering that one. Instead I'll just be visiting this sub-forum for proper vr news.

 /edit: ..and the best hardware reviews.

You're welcome. If you feel unwell over it, I'll suggest counseling. Nobody wants to harm you, not even us.

[chiliwili69]

On 9/25/2019 at 10:38 AM, SvAF/F16_radek said:

I check both roadtoVR

 

With some delay it is there:

https://www.roadtovr.com/pimax-8kx-8kplus-launch-dates/

 

It was busy days with OC6.

[TWHYata_PL]

On 9/25/2019 at 10:57 PM, blitze said:

Many people are winging about paying for Eye Tracking but given it is supplied by a third party also and costs a bit, I can understand the cost.  With discount and a coupon, you can get it down to $99 I think which is reasonable and great for tracked Foreated Rendering.

I don't think so that this device will help us in IL 2 nor in any flight/race sim games.  FFR balanced is good enough if works and can save like 8~12 fps.

Agressive mode and imho future DFR which will be IMHO like Agressive but moving with you eyeballs, will be only distracting factor and ppl will avoid that solutions.

Definitely I'm not going to buy this tech. for 200$. It's not holy grail.

Edited September 26, 2019 by TWHYata_PL

[blitze]

2 hours ago, TWHYata_PL said:

I don't think so that this device will help us in IL 2 nor in any flight/race sim games.  FFR balanced is good enough if works and can save like 8~12 fps.

Agressive mode and imho future DFR which will be IMHO like Agressive but moving with you eyeballs, will be only distracting factor and ppl will avoid that solutions.

Definitely I'm not going to buy this tech. for 200$. It's not holy grail.

 

Not sure how FFR looks on the 5K but have you used it with render targets of 4k x 4k or more?

 

On the 8K with PiTool Render at 1.5 and SteamVR at 100% for both Vid and App, Aggressive FFR looks very natural and not pixelated like it does with lower Render settings.  This also helps considerably delivering 50% fps increase over Aggressive FFR not being enabled.

 

Even Balanced FFR will deliver a near 30% improvement in frame rendering and that can be quite substantial.  Nothing to sneeze at. 

 

The price of Eye Tracking for Backers will be less than $200 - with the $100 discount on offer and the option to use a $100 Coupon towards the purchase, I think it will be quite reasonable.  Add the benefits of Lens Distortion Correction and IPD profiling , well.....  Not saying it will eliminate lens distortion but at least geometrically, it will correct any issues, the clarity, well that is based on the design of the lens.

[TWHYata_PL]

5 hours ago, blitze said:

Not sure how FFR looks on the 5K but have you used it with render targets of 4k x 4k or more?

 

Close. In IL 2 my res per eye is around 3750x 3200 in beta with 72hz mode and its stable without FFR. I tryied FFR but crshing and when I see it I dont like it - immersion breaker. So only balanced and conservatie in some dark games like Elite are acceptable( 4200x3500 per eye) But with blue/green enviroment thouse biger pixels at edges and visible circle is very distracting in my eyes.

 

[SCG_Fenris_Wolf]

I also see FFR as distracting - I use the big lenses a lot and rotate my eyes. 

 

No distortion here. I found out it is fully tied to the distance of your eyes to the lenses. I had to use another foam (I use one from VR Cover), to get the right distance to the lenses. I have clarity right to the edges using this. 

[blitze]

4 hours ago, TWHYata_PL said:

 

Close. In IL 2 my res per eye is around 3750x 3200 in beta with 72hz mode and its stable without FFR. I tryied FFR but crshing and when I see it I dont like it - immersion breaker. So only balanced and conservatie in some dark games like Elite are acceptable( 4200x3500 per eye) But with blue/green enviroment thouse biger pixels at edges and visible circle is very distracting in my eyes.

 

Really it needs to be above 4k to not have it noticable.  I just tested it on Large FOV, FFR Balanced with PiTool 1.25 Render SteamVR 100%,  render target was 6136 x 4052

 

If you can try it FFR Agressive with Normal FOV, SteamVR 100% and PiTool Render 1.5

 

Not noticeable at all.  Only at lower resolutions is it an eyesore.

[Voyager]

So what is FFR? Haven't followed the Pimax closely yet so I'm behind on the terminology. 

[TWHYata_PL]

5 hours ago, blitze said:

If you can try it FFR Agressive with Normal FOV, SteamVR 100% and PiTool Render 1.5

 

Not noticeable at all.  Only at lower resolutions is it an eyesore.

Will try but keep in mind that your given res. is unplayable anyway also we have different panels... yet

Edited September 27, 2019 by TWHYata_PL

[blitze]

3 hours ago, TWHYata_PL said:

Will try but keep in mind that your given res. is unplayable anyway also we have different panels... yet

Weird that, I was playing at 6k x 4k just last night.  It was above 30fps and that was on a laptop.  If I bump the Il2 Graphics down to Low Settings I am sure I could reach the 40's which is plenty smooth enough.

 

Oh, my bad - I forgot, VR can't be played unless it is at a constant 90 FPS?

 

Thank God I didn't follow the herd when Pimax offered the 5K like most people did but stuck with my original decision cause at high render resolutions, the 8K is very nice.  I just know the 8K-X will be nicer.

 

Back you go playing render targets at 1K x 1K  ?

[SCG_Fenris_Wolf]

If you have any recommendations for a proper Whiskey to blend the fps for me like that too, I'm all ears blitze ?

[blitze]

2 minutes ago, SCG_Fenris_Wolf said:

If you have any recommendations for a proper Whiskey to blend the fps for me like that too, I'm all ears blitze ?

Bushmills Irish Whiskey is a fav of mine.  Prefer the smoother taste to Scotch ?

 

You should be able to push out some decent fps  on your rig at PiTool 1.25 and SteamVR 100%, just remember to check SteamVR's default.vrsettings file looking for "maxRecommendedResolution": 4096, and change 4096 to 8192 so you get the proper target resolution on the headset.

 

I find leaving SteamVR at 100% instead of pulling it down to 80% or lower gets me better performance in game.  Then again, Parallel Projections is an issue at the moment.  I wonder when that will no longer be a requirement, cough, cough. ?

 

I'm sure testing of 3Dmigoto's mod without Parallel Projections will give a good indication of what is possible with Pimax headsets.

[SCG_Fenris_Wolf]

4 minutes ago, blitze said:

Bushmills Irish Whiskey is a fav of mine.  Prefer the smoother taste to Scotch ?

 

You should be able to push out some decent fps  on your rig at PiTool 1.25 and SteamVR 100%, just remember to check SteamVR's default.vrsettings file looking for "maxRecommendedResolution": 4096, and change 4096 to 8192 so you get the proper target resolution on the headset.

Hey, I gave you this information. Thanks for the recommendation on the Whiskey though ?

[blitze]

1 minute ago, SCG_Fenris_Wolf said:

Hey, I gave you this information. Thanks for the recommendation on the Whiskey though ?

You're welcomed.  ?

 

Looks like SteamVR has a personal settings file that can be used and is not reset with every update.  Go to hunt it down.  Even at PiTool 1 / Normal FOV / SteamVR 100% it makes a difference.

 

Ah the joys and I thought upper memory limits of DOS as a PITA

[SCG_Fenris_Wolf]

I know of it, it's in \Steam\config\steamvr.vrsettings, but thanks.

 

You can either edit this OR the other one from SteamVR (which has stopped reverting to 4096 a while ago) ?

 

 

P.S. Don't use the one from your user folder. It's a temporary copy only

Edited September 27, 2019 by SCG_Fenris_Wolf

[Alonzo]

On 9/26/2019 at 4:56 PM, TWHYata_PL said:

Agressive mode and imho future DFR which will be IMHO like Agressive but moving with you eyeballs, will be only distracting factor and ppl will avoid that solutions.

Definitely I'm not going to buy this tech. for 200$. It's not holy grail.

 

If they can get it to work, following your eyeballs with < 50ms latency, it's going to be amazing. Zero distraction, you won't be able to move your eyes fast enough to see the blurry outsides of the picture. Seriously, check out the NVidia research paper on it. When you move your eyes, your brain stops processing vision for around 100ms. That's plenty of time for the dynamic foveated rendering to do its job. My worry is that you really need tight integration from the game to the render pipeline to the VR software and hardware for it to work. Otherwise we're going to see some savings in render performance but nothing like the theoretical big improvements.

[TWHYata_PL]

23 hours ago, blitze said:

It was above 30fps and that was on a laptop.  If I bump the Il2 Graphics down to Low Settings I am sure I could reach the 40's which is plenty smooth enough.

Very impressive fps. You are duck in sky Sir.

Edited September 28, 2019 by TWHYata_PL

[blitze]

MRTV preview of the PImax 8K+

 

https://forum.pimaxvr.com/t/mrtv-pimax-8k-plus-first-impressions/22354/13

 

Running PiTool Render at 1 and SteamvR at 100%

 

With that and Normal FOV I could get 50+ fps on my current setup ?

I've inquired of Sebastian about clarity over distance in DCS but the in cockpit video was good as were the other two games.  Much better than the 8K.

[WIS-Redcoat]

I’m usually pretty leery of such hype trains; but does anyone know how this “strike” worked out?  The engineering and technical specs were amazing!   
 

I critically tested their previous headset with my computron5000 and within a day I found it to be hot garbage.
 

 

[SCG_Fenris_Wolf]

16 hours ago, WIS-Redcoat said:

I’m usually pretty leery of such hype trains; but does anyone know how this “strike” worked out?  The engineering and technical specs were amazing!   
 

I critically tested their previous headset with my computron5000 and within a day I found it to be hot garbage.

So desparate to find my hypes - that you revive a 2.5 year old thread about us being hyped from Pimax News? We were VR virgins back then...?

 

I know you love to follow me around, but as I said - we'll never be more than friends.

 

I am certain that finding this thread took a lot of effort though, and I respect that.

 

How many posts did you browse through and how many hours wasted just to find this? You must have mastered the forum's search function. I couldn't do that. I was never that dedicated.

 

What you achieved is actually amazing - and I am flattered! Seriously! ☺️

[71st_AH_Mastiff]

My PiMax 8kx is stuck in double vision since last update I can not get it to bring the FOV back to one 3D picture in the head set.

 

 

[SCG_Fenris_Wolf]

Good luck with Pimax support... seriously! O_o

 

Tested the latest version of the 8KX a few weeks ago. 8KX version 3. They remain unnumbered officially but have different parts built-in in reality. They update their fw/software for the new headsets and drop the old...

 

They have only by now fixed all the issues from before. The picture is at 95% of the G2, and there is no distortion. You can recognize that you have version 3 if you can only run the 8KX at 90Hz (it does not support 75Hz). Usually delivered with firmware version x.2001 which is - again - subject to change in the future.

 

I'm not dealing with this company anymore though, they're using their customers as beta testers. And just 1 year of warranty? Then they change software and you see double with "an early 8kX" ? That's absolute horse sh't.

[71st_AH_Mastiff]

It seems to be caused by steam vr when you use the in game ipd% uI. I fixed it by zeroing it out and restarted. 

I’m happy with mine, I have a new 3090 ti , my setting are at 150% in game shows 123fov, normal vision 45 fps. With ultra and high setting all maxed out. 

[WallterScott]

Who bought Pimax 8k x rev 3 (90Hz only),

Help to adjust the sound correctly. At first there is no sound. Then they prompted me to turn on the 7.1 sound in the devices, but it doesn't work correctly in games. Only two channels are heard in DCS. If you enable sound check in windows, then only two channels are heard. But in other modes except 7.1, there is no sound in the headphones!!

Edited June 2, 2022 by WallterScott