Real life ww2 vs game

[-332FG-Hank_DG]

If you could go back in time and be a ww2 pilot... how do you think you would fare after playing this game? Do you think you would have some advantage over some pilots? I understand this is just a game, but this is for fun. 

Edited September 20, 2019 by -332FG-Hank_DG

[unreasonable]

Good question: I think it would be a death sentence.

 

In this game, you learn from your mistakes. Or even learn the wrong things from your mistakes.  People (me too) are prone to go for the highest payoff option, rather than  a lower risk option.  In RL, more often than not, you could die from your mistakes.

 

When I play career I play DiD: it does make me more cautious, but I still chase planes further than I should, go for one more pass at that bomber etc.  

[Ribbon]

I would probably crash and wait "finish flight" button turn to green

[Danziger]

Exactly. This is a game for fun. WW2 definitely was not.

[Mauf]

Skills do not immediatly transfer. Controlling the plane is vastly different in the seat than in front of a screen. For most of us, Dunning-Kruger will kick in and more likely get us killed quicker than the more cautious greenhorn.

[US63_SpadLivesMatter]

It would probably be the guys you don't expect who would end up doing well.

[Pict]

1 hour ago, -332FG-Hank_DG said:

Do you think you would have some advantage over some pilots?

 

I say for sure you would, assuming everything else was equal.

 

IL2 may just be a game, but it's also a simulator and many WW2 pilots used simulators as apart of their training Link Trainer is a good example.

[Feathered_IV]

If I were in the RAF,  I would be great at parties.  I would run up such a mess bill that Britain would have to apply to the USA for aid.

If I were in the Luftwaffe, I would write long, loooong letters to Willy Messerschmitt all in big capital letters. Accusing him of Russian bias.

[Diggun]

I'm myopic and can touch type. You'll find me a long, long way from any combat areas. Probably hiding.

[Finkeren]

1 hour ago, unreasonable said:

Good question: I think it would be a death sentence.

 

I think this pretty much sums it up. 

 

We are playing a game, and like virtually everyone else playing at war, we learn precisely the wrong lessons required to stay alive in an actual combat situation. 

[Feathered_IV]

**Gun the throttle and blast off crossways straight out of the revetment without even bothering to wonder where the runway might be.  Set a course straight for the nearest enemy airfield, badly lipsynching your favourite Rammstein tune.  Just 20% fuel in the tank...**

[[DBS]Browning]

Assuming I was given the same amount of training as any other pilot at the time, I see no reason why I shouldn't do just as well, if not better.

The only problem might be my desire no not kill or hurt anyone.

[6FG_Big_Al]

Assuming I was an average pilot who survived the war. I guess some things would be easier. For example (in theory) flight maneuvers, radio discipline and situational awareness. However, it would still be due to the implementation of the simulator (like Il-2), because here we personally have no G-forces and apart from VR/TrackIR and sound we have no further impressions of the plane. Or as some WW2 pilots described it, we can't "feel" the plane. This means that we are much more limited than in reality. (Apart from render distances)
But you don't have to go back that far. I think there are also some current amateur and fighter pilots here who might have similar experiences?

[Zooropa_Fly]

A good sim pilot would definately be ahead of the curve in a flying sense.

I've never flown a real aircraft and I'm sure the feeling of the controls is much different to my slick and smooth stick / pedals.

However, I'd know what to do with them and think I'd be able to feel them out very quickly in a real plane.

 

Flying is a bit like drumming (says a bass player). Noobs can do 2 things at once but incorporating the 3rd thing takes time and practice.

With drumming the noob can play a basic rock beat on snare and high hat, but struggles to use the bass drum.

With simming the noob will be flying with stick only and likely not using the rudder pedals at all to begin with.

 

In combat on the other hand, perhaps we've picked up too many bad habits.

Having to learn how to stay alive from scratch in the real world might not be able to over write our bad habits.

I think we all perform manouvers that real pilots probably wouldn't. That might be difficult to stop !

Edited September 20, 2019 by Zooropa_Fly

[CanadaOne]

Straight to a quiet part of France, crash the plane near some lovelies bathing in the river, burn the wreckage, use the swag bag for all it's worth, raise 50 children with 10 wives. Make a lot of wine.

 

Yeah, I could handle WWII.

[ITAF_Rani]

Most of us will be scared and piss in their pants after first flights in these monstrous warbirds...

Edited September 20, 2019 by ITAF_Rani

[356thFS_Melonfish]

Assuming you were transported into the cockpit of your favourite plane on the runway one of two things would immediatly happen.

1. you'd be shot by people around you as a spy/imposter.

2. you'd crash the plane on takeoff.

 

this is of course assuming you don't actually fly IRL.

because if you did you'd likely open the cockpit get out and start raving like a lunatic that you're from 80 years in the future ?

 

 

[SE.VH_Boemundo]

50 minutes ago, Zooropa_Fly said:

A good sim pilot would definately be ahead of the curve in a flying sense.

I've never flown a real aircraft and I'm sure the feeling of the controls is much different to my slick and smooth stick / pedals.

However, I'd know what to do with them and think I'd be able to feel them out very quickly in a real plane.

 

Flying is a bit like drumming (says a bass player). Noobs can do 2 things at once but incorporating the 3rd thing takes time and practice.

With drumming the noob can play a basic rock beat on snare and high hat, but struggles to use the bass drum.

With simming the noob will be flying with stick only and likely not using the rudder pedals at all to begin with.

 

In combat on the other hand, perhaps we've picked up too many bad habits.

Having to learn how to stay alive from scratch in the real world might not be able to over write our bad habits.

I think we all perform manouvers that real pilots probably wouldn't. That might be difficult to stop !

While turning at 4g your arms and head are 4x heavier. Imagine you trying to aim and compensate  the g forces with your muscles, trying to stay conscious etc. The top dogfighters and acrobats in game should be the First dead. I dont think real pilots like so much curves.

Sometimes real life pilots should do one maneuver to get better position to shot or prevent a overshot. Maybe a lag roll or so but irl combat is not aerobatics.

[InProgress]

I am sure you would do much better. Of course you won't jump into the plane day one but get realistic training first. But you still get some skill in shooting, you know when to open fire to get hits, you can know some tactics that normal pilots would not know back then etc. Even tho it may be just a game, you are still doing something. Someone who never saw a gun vs guy who played arma, i would bet that the arma guy will have much more success in shooting than guy who does it first time.

 

But it would all depend how someone plays this game, if you just take off alone and roam around, shoot at everything and does not care if there is even fuel left. Could be short career, but someone who plays this to recreate events and do it as realistic as possible, i am sure he could have some adventage.

 

Afterall this is how you train people, on simulators. They don't even have to be 100% realistic, some sims are only for tactics where soldiers just use mouse and keyboard and some are full cockpit of some plane made 1:1. While i don't think you would take  plane in the air (afterall you can't press E in real life and plane will start on its own) you could have better skill in shooting, tactics and this kind of stuff.

Edited September 20, 2019 by InProgress

[Lusekofte]

In ww2 you should not be older than 26 going in training. And even that would be a fight not to be aircrew. 

We are fingertips manouvering pilots flying planes in need of strength to fly. 

We are all in better understanding of aerodynamics and how a plane work. For me I would do as a co pilot in a bomber at best. You need youth reaction and belief of nothing can kill you 

there are too many factors 

Edited September 20, 2019 by LuseKofte

[Decho]

Cramming my ample frame into a Spitfire would probably be less productive than putting me to work on the Manhattan project or rocketry research to be honest. I imagine most sim pilots would have an advantage over the average rookie, but not all that dramatic of one.

[Zooropa_Fly]

25 minutes ago, LuseKofte said:

In ww2 you should not be older than 26 going in training. And even that would be a fight not to be aircrew. 

We are fingertips manouvering pilots flying planes in need of strength to fly. 

We are all in better understanding of aerodynamics and how a plane work. For me I would do as a co pilot in a bomber at best. You need youth reaction and belief of nothing can kill you 

there are too many factors 

 

Thanks, you just reminded me I'm 51.

[Lusekofte]

4 hours ago, Zooropa_Fly said:

 

Thanks, you just reminded me I'm 51.

Kiddo 

I’m 53 and I already feel my age. I have noticed I started to think before I do something. Now I am waiting on the ability to think before I speak

Edited September 20, 2019 by LuseKofte

[sevenless]

I have read very often from veterans that the most important sensory organ of a fighterpilot is the "butt". Which basically means that accelleration/decelleration, positive and negative G-load is something you need to get used to and develop a "feeling" for the machine while keeping situational awareness. This certainly is something which can´t be simulated on PCs appropriately. Nevertheless I pretty much believe that someone who is capable to "fly" a given machine in a simulator will have an advantage over somebody who starts to learn flying and who misses this experience.

[kestrel79]

I'd be dead in about 30 minutes  

 

I think one of the coolest things when we play these sims is you have to take a moment to stop and realize "someone really did this" and give all these pilots our respect and gratitude.

[cardboard_killer]

As a committed coward, all I can say is, which way to Sweden?

[Lusekofte]

I think you got « natural talents» both here and in real life. 

Being good in navigating and have a natural aggression is good for a fighter pilot. Again youth come into it. 

[SCG_motoadve]

 

I have done some simulated air combat in real  warbirds, their power to weight ratio is close to some  WWII early fighters.

It is an adrenaline rush and Il2 absolutely helped.

Made me think how much of an adrenaline/scary rush would have been in WWII and real combat.

 

Same tactics work , for air combat maneuvers IL2 was amazing help, I bet for gunnery , specially if you fly in VR the sim would have helped too in real life.

G forces ( lacking right now in IL2, but when the new pilot physiology is released , we wont feel G forces either, but will make you think and fly more like a real pilot).

Situational awareness IL2 also a big help.

Seat of the pants feel (that cannot be simulated)

If you fly in VR , formation in IL2  is super realistic.

 

Made a video of it, was low level so no crazy maneuvers here, but fun( sorry no explosions).?

 

 

Edited September 20, 2019 by II./JG77_motoadve

[356thFS_Melonfish]

3 hours ago, III./SG77-G_Boelcke said:

While turning at 4g your arms and head are 4x heavier. Imagine you trying to aim and compensate  the g forces with your muscles, trying to stay conscious etc. The top dogfighters and acrobats in game should be the First dead. I dont think real pilots like so much curves.

Sometimes real life pilots should do one maneuver to get better position to shot or prevent a overshot. Maybe a lag roll or so but irl combat is not aerobatics.

Modern combat is not aerobatics no, In ww2 it can and did save lives.

aerobatics not only allow you to learn how to manouvre in the air but they get you familiar with your plane and how it handles in those situations, if you can perform rolls and spins without thinking it'll save your life.

Don't take my word for it, have a read of the varied accounts from RAF pilots from the BOB and what they said about training.

[Bremspropeller]

8 hours ago, -332FG-Hank_DG said:

If you could go back in time and be a ww2 pilot... how do you think you would fare after playing this game?

 

Depends. If you were a US/ RAF fighter pilot in 1945 and not too eager to mix it up with flak, being conservative and all, you'll probably be alright.

If you were a Luftwaffe pilot, chances are you'd be dead soon - no matter the experience.

 

Luck and good odds are way more important than skill.

[[CPT]Crunch]

We already know what happens when the reverse takes place, see the old threads of vets trying to adapt.  Crash and burn baby.

 

If anyone thinks its realistic to fly dozens of different types and be proficient with them,.. really?  You eat, sleep, sweat, dream, and bleed for months just to become a proficient weapon system in real one.

[SE.VH_Boemundo]

3 hours ago, Melonfish said:

Modern combat is not aerobatics no, In ww2 it can and did save lives.

aerobatics not only allow you to learn how to manouvre in the air but they get you familiar with your plane and how it handles in those situations, if you can perform rolls and spins without thinking it'll save your life.

Don't take my word for it, have a read of the varied accounts from RAF pilots from the BOB and what they said about training.

Aerobatics is only for enemy already on your six, when you escape one another get you while you recover SA and stamina after all manouvering. I guess thrust on aerobatics is dead sentence.

Edited September 20, 2019 by III./SG77-G_Boelcke

[szelljr]

...I was  plane painter ,for wine..

[RedKestrel]

10 hours ago, -332FG-Hank_DG said:

If you could go back in time and be a ww2 pilot... how do you think you would fare after playing this game? Do you think you would have some advantage over some pilots? I understand this is just a game, but this is for fun. 

I would be dead after about 1 sortie, as that appears to be my average lifespan. I'm the aerial warfare equivalent of a fruit fly.

[CAFulcrum]

I think it absolutely would unless certain factors made things worse.  A lot of great aces had histories of doing death defying things or running around in fast vehicles or cavalry.  Undoubtedly that would have given them an edge in training and control of their bodies, and spatial understanding, as well as having quick reactions and knowing how to handle speed.  On the other hand they also would have learned or had a great amount of courage necessary to fly these things in war, which is not something that factors into flight sims.

 

I can say flight sims definitely helped me when I started flying remote control aircraft, especially in emergency handling when something went wrong, but I still had to learn how to fly from a fixed position on the ground, and the safety factor is much higher.  IL2 would probably make most of us reckless, on the other hand I think most of us would have a better chance of scraping through difficult situations.

 

I think most of us would probably lawn dart in the bf109 as well after accelerating in it too fast.  The question's sort of moot because there were so many unexpected factors (not to mention ground fire being totally random) and you would still have to go through the training program to actually learn the aircraft.  Riding a motorcycle might be more advantageous in some ways.  On the other hand if you survived the initial acclimation I think flight simmers would have a huge advantage over the large number of unexperienced pilots in WWII. 

 

That's always what kills immersion to me the most in fact, online every pilot you meet is an ace, whereas in real life most kills were achieved through bounces of unsuspecting planes.  Flight sims really teach you to always look around and be on constant alert from attack and I bet in RL flight sim pilots would have certain behaviors that both made them difficult to surprise and gave them a tactical understanding of air combat where they would tend to attempt hit and run and 'safe' attacks, which were historically successful as well. Though you'd still have wingmen without that experience so you'd still be pretty limited to whatever squadron you were placed in.

[40plus]

I'd be in jail, for desertion.

 

i ain't fighting in no war.

[mazex]

I have taken dozens of friends flying over the years. Some of them very experienced sim pilots holding a real stick for the first time. Still waiting for one to perform their first turn without massive side slip and altitude gain / loss... And it mostly works rather OK until you start doing some aerobatics. I usually start with a loop that is the "softest" start. But that 5G entry into the loop takes the breath out of everyone anyway. The G comes so much faster than they would anticipate, and feels very different from roller coasters  But as long as you do positive G manouvres most people are fine. The standard comment is always that all was fine until we got inverted in that roll. A straight slow roll is a manouvre that is very different IRL than in a sim where your coffee mug stays on the table... With negative G, dirt, hair and on occasions cell phones hit the canopy - blood making the skin of your face feel like it's about to burst... That gentle push to keep the nose from dropping while inverted always produces a very distinctive grunt and oupfff. 

 

But - in the air, everyone with a lot of sim hours would get the hold of it after a while. But just doing a level turn would require full focus. And there would be slippage... A real plane don't fly straight without small corrections all the time like a sim plane does. And everyone that have never held a real stick before would crash if trying to land. Period

 

But if you mean "would we with our sim experience after completing a normal pilot training have an advantage?", then I definately agree. A lot of the energy management tactics that we learnt here would be a good headstart I think. We know what lead and lag pursuit is. We understand when to do a high yo-yo or just zoom away and keep the speed as much as possible. 

 

But I am pretty sure that our knowledge that an Me 109 G4 turns a tiny bit slower than an F2 would be completely wasted IRL where a real experienced fighter pilot in an Me 110 would whop our asses if we where flying a Spitfire Mk XIV

 

Edited September 21, 2019 by mazex

[cardboard_killer]

Yeah, that and I get motion sickness when I even look at the ocean.

 

 

[Rjel]

1 hour ago, mazex said:

I have taken dozens of friends flying over the years. Some of them very experienced sim pilots holding a real stick for the first time. Still waiting for one to perform their first turn without massive side slip and altitude gain / loss... And it mostly works rather OK until you start doing some aerobatics. I usually start with a loop that is the "softest" start. But that 5G entry into the loop takes the breath out of everyone anyway. The G comes so much faster than they would anticipate, and feels very different from roller coasters  But as long as you do positive G manouvres most people are fine. The standard comment is always that all was fine until we got inverted in that roll. A straight slow roll is a manouvre that is very different IRL than in a sim where your coffee mug stays on the table... With negative G, dirt, hair and on occasions cell phones hit the canopy - blood making the skin of your face feel like it's about to burst... That gentle push to keep the nose from dropping while inverted always produces a very distinctive grunt and oupfff. 

 

In the later 1980s and early 1990s, I had several opportunities to fly with the Red Baron Pizza squadron in their Stearman bi-planes. One of the pilots did some simple aerobatic maneuvers, barrel rolls and loops. It was all pretty cool. I was quite amazed during the loops at the Gs that built up pulling out at the bottom. I was pleased that I kept my cookies though.

 

As a sad note, the last time I flew with them, the pilot was one of the two pilots who died in a midair in Florida a couple of years later. His name was Randy Drake. A really nice guy who was eager to discuss his career. Somewhere I have a picture of he and I shaking hands. 

[PatrickAWlson]

I would absolutely have a better idea as to what to do, and no ability to actually do it