Disable Cockpit head movement restriction in VR in expert mode multiplayer

[STCIL2]

Is it possible? Half of planes are completely unusable due to motion sickness on hitting canopy 

[RedKestrel]

20 minutes ago, nbdarvin said:

Is it possible? Half of planes are completely unusable due to motion sickness on hitting canopy 

Apparently it is only possible to do if you also enable external views.

[dburne]

In MP it would have to be set by the server, ie rather than Expert Mode use Custom Mode and set all individual preferences.

I fly SP only and no way would I use the restricted movement option.

[Lusekofte]

I feel uncomfortable being able too lean outside a closed window. It put me off in same degree as when I forget to switch off unlimited ammo on qmb while flying campaign. 

In some things I simply get a lock in my head. I believe there is a tweak in VR section that improve this. A mod that is not considered a cheat and wont need mods on in servers. I think its pinned

Edited September 20, 2019 by LuseKofte

[SharpeXB]

I think servers don’t want VR players to be able to look around or through their canopy. That’s why the setting exists. 

 

Head movement limits are a must have with TrackIR, not just for anti cheating, but it’s really awkward to have your head move through the aircraft or back into your seat and blind you. X-Plane is like that and it’s awful. 

Edited September 20, 2019 by SharpeXB

[40plus]

Never found it to be an issue but I know VR motion sickness affects people differently.

[CIA_Yankee_]

The main issue is to prevent people getting a view that would not be possible otherwise, hence why it's tied to the external view limit. IF this were possible, people in VR (or Track IR I guess) could gain an unfair advantage by being able to see around things that would normally block their view.

 

Ultimately, the cause is that in our comfy chairs we don't have an actual cockpit with canopy around our body. Without somehow cobbling together physical barriers to your body/head movements, I can't see how this could be addressed better than it is now (maybe freeze the view entirely when it goes out of bounds?).

[dburne]

15 hours ago, 71st_AH_Yankee_ said:

The main issue is to prevent people getting a view that would not be possible otherwise, hence why it's tied to the external view limit. IF this were possible, people in VR (or Track IR I guess) could gain an unfair advantage by being able to see around things that would normally block their view.

 

Ultimately, the cause is that in our comfy chairs we don't have an actual cockpit with canopy around our body. Without somehow cobbling together physical barriers to your body/head movements, I can't see how this could be addressed better than it is now (maybe freeze the view entirely when it goes out of bounds?).

 

And Track IR users can spin their head around like an owl to look directly behind them, or magnify their viewing distance by a factor of 10, but we can't leave possibility for VR user to lean head out of the cockpit a little...

I think maybe there is more concern about this ability to lean head outside of cockpit to gain an unfair advantage than there really is the ability to do.

I myself am no where near that flexible. With all my hours in SP only time I have leaned my head out even a little was with open canopy on final for landing to hear the wind swoosh over my head. 

Remember VR is 1:1 head movement, trying to move head outside of canopy whilst maintaining some semblance of control of the plane is not that easy.

 

But alas I only fly single player , so I really don't have a dog in the hunt. I can certainly understand the desire to have everyone on the same page for MP. With the differences between the two technologies it would be hard to get them on exact same page. As long as the players are fine with this, certainly no problem with it.

Edited September 21, 2019 by dburne

[Zooropa_Fly]

"And Track IR users...    or magnify their viewing distance by a factor of 10"

 

?

[Garven]

7 hours ago, Zooropa_Fly said:

"And Track IR users...    or magnify their viewing distance by a factor of 10"

 

?

From what I've heard the game gives VR less zoom than monitor users who get something like 6x

 

Edited September 21, 2019 by -332FG-Garven

[SharpeXB]

7 hours ago, Zooropa_Fly said:

"And Track IR users...    or magnify their viewing distance by a factor of 10"

 

?

They can’t. I don’t know why that falsehood keeps getting repeated. On a normal 24”-27” monitor, the max zoom results in only a bit above life a sized view, not 10x. And this zoom view has as much or more to do with resolution than scale. 

2 minutes ago, -332FG-Garven said:

From what I've heard the game gives VR less zoom than monitor users who get something like 6x

 

But the view in VR is life sized to begin with. 

7 hours ago, dburne said:

And Track IR users can spin their head around like an owl to look directly behind them,

And the solution for this is? What?

There isn’t one so no point in complaining. Nobody is forced to play in VR. So just deal with the disadvantages of “reality”. You asked for it so you got it. 

[dburne]

42 minutes ago, SharpeXB said:

 

And the solution for this is? What?

There isn’t one so no point in complaining. Nobody is forced to play in VR. So just deal with the disadvantages of “reality”. You asked for it so you got it. 

 

Who's complaining?

But alas I only fly single player , so I really don't have a dog in the hunt. I can certainly understand the desire to have everyone on the same page for MP. With the differences between the two technologies it would be hard to get them on exact same page. As long as the players are fine with this, certainly no problem with it.

 

[Lusekofte]

23 hours ago, 71st_AH_Yankee_ said:

Ultimately, the cause is that in our comfy chairs we don't have an actual cockpit with canopy around our body

In fact I do 

I smack my head on the right side on a shelf and on my left I do the same against the door if closed.  I moved my throttle a little back so it is in position  where A20 throttle is. And all is dandy. I fly planes I like so in most of them I do not need to turn my head around

[Jaegermeister]

to OP, maybe you should just limit your head movement to not smack the imaginary canopy so much. I don't mean to be curt, but why would you need to crane your head around that far anyway? Most of the planes I fly, I never hit the view limitations or move my head outside the cockpit if I have the external view enabled. I just don't see the problem. The Macchi 202 and Spitfire are kind of tight, but the rest seem fine.

 

I do know that about 1/2 the people I have put in my chair and taken on a quick VR flight get vertigo almost immediately when I do some kind of (normal to me) snap roll or Split S. Looking back over my shoulder and pulling up and over about 45 degrees does make me a bit queasy sometimes too. ?

[JonRedcorn]

10 hours ago, SharpeXB said:

They can’t. I don’t know why that falsehood keeps getting repeated. On a normal 24”-27” monitor, the max zoom results in only a bit above life a sized view, not 10x. And this zoom view has as much or more to do with resolution than scale. 

But the view in VR is life sized to begin with. 

And the solution for this is? What?

There isn’t one so no point in complaining. Nobody is forced to play in VR. So just deal with the disadvantages of “reality”. You asked for it so you got it. 

You are so insufferable.

 

Show us on the doll where VR touched you.

Edited September 22, 2019 by JonRedcorn

[Talon_]

13 hours ago, SharpeXB said:

On a normal 24”-27” monitor, the max zoom results in only a bit above life a sized view, not 10x.

What about on a 60" TV?

[9./JG52_Sturm]

8 hours ago, Jaegermeister said:

to OP, maybe you should just limit your head movement to not smack the imaginary canopy so much. I don't mean to be curt, but why would you need to crane your head around that far anyway? Most of the planes I fly, I never hit the view limitations or move my head outside the cockpit if I have the external view enabled. I just don't see the problem. The Macchi 202 and Spitfire are kind of tight, but the rest seem fine.

 

I do know that about 1/2 the people I have put in my chair and taken on a quick VR flight get vertigo almost immediately when I do some kind of (normal to me) snap roll or Split S. Looking back over my shoulder and pulling up and over about 45 degrees does make me a bit queasy sometimes too. ?

I personally feel that the 'head size' assigned in VR is too large because of this you can't get as close to the canopy as you should be able to in real life. I don't want a cheat head out of the canopy bubble mode, but tweaking it to avoid the moving cockpit occurring so much would be greatly appreciated.

[Zooropa_Fly]

4 hours ago, Talon_ said:

What about on a 60" TV?

 

You have to consider resolution / pixel size as variables in this.

I play on a 40", but at 4K things appear smaller than if I was playing at 1080.

 

[Talisman]

Can't help thinking that the fact that I can move my head closer to the gunsight and cockpit canopy, etc, in some aircraft and not others, points to an inconsistency in how the VR head restriction is modelled between different aircraft types. 

This inconsistency would seem to indicate that there is a problem here.  Although different cockpits are larger or smaller in terms of total space available, I should not be able to move my head closer to gunsight, canopy or other cockpit obstacles in a La5 than a Spitfire for example, but that is exactly the situation we have at the moment.  

What we need is some consistency in the head restriction modelling for all aircraft types.  The La5 seems about right, but the Spitfire makes it feel like my eyes are sunk further into my skull and my forehead sticks out to the front like an alien!

Please developers will you look at this issue?

 

Happy landings,

 

56RAF_Talisman

On 9/21/2019 at 12:20 PM, Zooropa_Fly said:

"And Track IR users...    or magnify their viewing distance by a factor of 10"

 

?

Folks, can we not go off on a tangent about TIR, zoom function, monitor size, TV screens, screen pixels or resolution please.  Lets keep this on topic, which is VR.

 

If you have not used VR and experienced the in-game head movement restriction function, then you may not be aware of the total break in immersion the inconsistent application of this function can cause.  The whole cockpit moves around you and the wings move away from you, it is totally weird.  I can see why the developers have implemented this restriction, but it is not consistent between aircraft types; some aircraft are better done than others. 

 

Thank you in anticipation.

 

56RAF_Talisman

[SharpeXB]

6 hours ago, Talon_ said:

What about on a 60" TV?

Are you going to regulate players screen sizes?

8 hours ago, JonRedcorn said:

Show us on the doll where VR touched you.

^ this

VR players seem to want to wreck the game for everyone else because their headsets are at such a disadvantage  ?

Edited September 22, 2019 by SharpeXB

[JonRedcorn]

2 hours ago, 56RAF_Talisman said:

Can't help thinking that the fact that I can move my head closer to the gunsight and cockpit canopy, etc, in some aircraft and not others, points to an inconsistency in how the VR head restriction is modelled between different aircraft types. 

This inconsistency would seem to indicate that there is a problem here.  Although different cockpits are larger or smaller in terms of total space available, I should not be able to move my head closer to gunsight, canopy or other cockpit obstacles in a La5 than a Spitfire for example, but that is exactly the situation we have at the moment.  

What we need is some consistency in the head restriction modelling for all aircraft types.  The La5 seems about right, but the Spitfire makes it feel like my eyes are sunk further into my skull and my forehead sticks out to the front like an alien!

Please developers will you look at this issue?

 

Happy landings,

 

56RAF_Talisman

Folks, can we not go off on a tangent about TIR, zoom function, monitor size, TV screens, screen pixels or resolution please.  Lets keep this on topic, which is VR.

 

If you have not used VR and experienced the in-game head movement restriction function, then you may not be aware of the total break in immersion the inconsistent application of this function can cause.  The whole cockpit moves around you and the wings move away from you, it is totally weird.  I can see why the developers have implemented this restriction, but it is not consistent between aircraft types; some aircraft are better done than others. 

 

Thank you in anticipation.

 

56RAF_Talisman

It use to be ten times worse, they actually fixed a lot of the cockpits although some still need some work.

[Quax]

On 9/20/2019 at 5:24 PM, SharpeXB said:

I think servers don’t want VR players to be able to look around or through their canopy. That’s why the setting exists. 

 

Head movement limits are a must have with TrackIR, not just for anti cheating, but it’s really awkward to have your head move through the aircraft or back into your seat and blind you. X-Plane is like that and it’s awful. 

 

It´s a total different issue. The restriction using TrackIR causes no problems. But in VR you get motion sick, if you bang your head against an invisible wall and then push your whole aircraft sideways. Nobody wants to cheat with VR (you are not competitive anyway with your restricted resolution). And it is not about looking outside. The glass walls within the cockpit are the problem.

Edited September 22, 2019 by Quax

[SharpeXB]

36 minutes ago, Quax said:

 

It´s a total different issue. The restriction using TrackIR causes no problems. But in VR you get motion sick, if you bang your head against an invisible wall and then push your whole aircraft sideways. 

I get that part. Perhaps the restricted area within the cockpit needs to be enlarged. But I imagine there will always be a movement limit in the game and especially in multiplayer. 

Having your head move through the aircraft, besides being a cheat, is just extremely awkward. It breaks the immersion of being in the cockpit and looks terrible. Plus you can have your vision blinded by your head intersecting with objects. For example looking back and having your head stick into the headrest etc. The solution for VR is simply learn to not bang your head into the canopy. 

[Goffik]

2 hours ago, SharpeXB said:

The solution for VR is simply learn to not bang your head into the canopy.

 

I'm not sure if you use VR or not, but it's not that simple. Due to the way the restrictions work, even something as simple as turning around to try and see over your shoulder can result in bumping your head and the cockpit "shifting". Your head is not and would not be outside the cockpit at all, yet it still results in an immersion breaking (and potentially sickness inducing) bump. Why? Because the defined cockpit area and perhaps also the "size" of your head is very poorly defined and too restrictive.

 

Of course, that makes your suggestion...

 

2 hours ago, SharpeXB said:

Perhaps the restricted area within the cockpit needs to be enlarged.

 

... the perfect solution to this issue that would keep everyone happy. 

 

For the record, I have to fly with the restrictions off due to this issue, yet normal movement never results in my view leaving the confines of the cockpit. So yeah, they've just restricted it far too much.

Edited September 22, 2019 by Goffik

[Talon_]

7 hours ago, SharpeXB said:

VR players seem to want to wreck the game for everyone else because their headsets are at such a disadvantage  ?

 

VR is a massive advantage. I've not been killed/captured since June on Combat Box and I'm up to an 18 kill streak since.

[HansBlitz]

People whine about got to have this or that or its not real enough -- then we have people who want to stick their head through the canopy, yea that's amazingly real. Hitting the VR limit bothers me a lot less that the weird sensation of sticking my head through the canopy. Tried that once in single player and it really bothered me when my head passed through the canopy -- ruined the whole being in the plane feeling for me -- hated it. I've done a lot better with VR and I'm glad the expert setting servers don't have heads outside their planes -- outside views off, then so should heads outside the canopy. I either have gotten to where I hit the limit less now or have gotten where I don't notice it. Over 2 years only flying with VR and I can't see going back to a screen ever for flying.

 

Everyone is a bit different on how the VR affects them, how much, or not. I guess I"m one of the lucky ones that VR doesn't give motion sickness and such. You might try shorting sessions until you can adjust. If you can't handle VR symptoms then simply don't use it or use VR in single player where you have more control of your settings. My daughters can't do VR hardly at all or breakout in a sweat and feel ill, so it can very greatly even in a family. It's a bummer that it's not for everyone do the the affects because if a person can use it, it is fantastic.

[[CPT]Crunch]

Some of them can certainly use adjustment, the JU-52 is horrid, you get about 4 inches to the left, no where near the window by a yard or so.

[STCIL2]

people in this thread pretending that VR gives some competitive advantage (while not flying in VR themselves) are ridiculous - you know what gives competitive advantage? $400 joystick and $300 throttle. 

 

Head restriction in VR on multiplayer is the single worst thing about IL2. It's disappointing that developers gonna spend human years of development on some historical accuracy, while ignoring game breaking issue on the platform that gives the best experience (when you don't bump head) on their game. Such a waste

[HansBlitz]

I have no issue with them enlarging the restriction within the cockpit as an improvement, if they can do that but nobody should be able to stick their head thru the canopy when it is closed.

 

Saying that head restriction is single worst thing in this lessens your point -- sounds too much like so many others that some other issue is the single worst in their view. All that is getting where it sounds all the same -- my issue is the biggest -- everyone thinks that theirs is a game breaker.

 

Seems there are about three choices,

A. attempt to get used to it.

B. cross fingers that they can and do make some adjustment as improvement.

C. don't play VR.

[Jaegermeister]

On 9/22/2019 at 1:33 PM, Quax said:

But in VR you get motion sick, if you bang your head against an invisible wall and then push your whole aircraft sideways...

 

Or you don’t... I have had this experience and it doesn’t really bother me. I just don’t move my head that far next time. It is more odd than bothersome.

 

This reminds me of the thread about whether we would be better as real pilots after flying IL2 for a while. I guess some people can actually function in real aircraft and others can’t. Motion sickness has washed out many pilot cadets. VR does simulate 3D motion and it makes many people uncomfortable.

 

I’m not making judgements or trying to be critical, but it is what it is.

[STCIL2]

Thing is, restriction is not by position of head (obviously, system doesn't know it) - its by position of the headset. Headset sticks out ~6 cm in front of the face and sideways. Real pilot doesn't have this huge plastic thing on his face so he doesn't bang tight canopy. People in this thread - you are defending obvious bug!

[Goffik]

6 hours ago, HansBlitz said:

Saying that head restriction is single worst thing in this lessens your point -- sounds too much like so many others that some other issue is the single worst in their view. All that is getting where it sounds all the same -- my issue is the biggest -- everyone thinks that theirs is a game breaker.

 

Totally agree with this. I do believe that the head restrictions are too tight and therefore an issue for VR users, but it certainly isn't game-breaking and I don't think it needs to be top priority on the dev's fix list. It genuinely does sound a bit crap when any issue is exaggerated, and just encourages those unaffected to argue the point.

Edited September 24, 2019 by Goffik

[STCIL2]

Those unaffected are just idle trolls who have no relationship to issue but self insert into discussion for no reason 

[Zooropa_Fly]

If you can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen.. and put yer baseball cap back on.

[Goffik]

Come on guys, I assumed this community would be a little more mature than most given it's subject matter. Please don't prove me wrong with petty squabbles over nothing. 

[Jonttu1]

On 9/22/2019 at 11:32 PM, Goffik said:

 

I'm not sure if you use VR or not, but it's not that simple. Due to the way the restrictions work, even something as simple as turning around to try and see over your shoulder can result in bumping your head and the cockpit "shifting". Your head is not and would not be outside the cockpit at all, yet it still results in an immersion breaking (and potentially sickness inducing) bump. Why? Because the defined cockpit area and perhaps also the "size" of your head is very poorly defined and too restrictive.

 

Sounds a bit like you haven't centered your head position correctly then. I can turn around just fine without bumping into anything, but when I start the game, the first thing I do in the plane is recenter the view because often the head position is slightly too high simply jumping straight in, which might cause these issues. After doing that I find the restrictions on head movement perfectly natural and it's far more annoying to play on servers where it is not restricted. 

Edited September 24, 2019 by Jonttu1

[HansBlitz]

Jonttu may have a good point about centering. That maybe why I don't see/or notice the issue now. It might be I center up better than I first did or have learned to move within the limit. Certainly worth your looking into that centering suggestion.

 

I use a Rift CV1 and do other headsets may have more of an issue due to scaling affecting head size??? - just dont know since the Rift is the only headset I have experience with. I know there has been discussions about scale differences between headsets but does that affect this?

 

Discussion is a good - many calling many different things the worst just gets old

 

 

 

 

[Talisman]

18 hours ago, Jonttu1 said:

Sounds a bit like you haven't centered your head position correctly then. I can turn around just fine without bumping into anything, but when I start the game, the first thing I do in the plane is recenter the view because often the head position is slightly too high simply jumping straight in, which might cause these issues. After doing that I find the restrictions on head movement perfectly natural and it's far more annoying to play on servers where it is not restricted. 

 

Even with head centred position fine tuned and optimised for each individual aircraft, there is still inconsistency between aircraft types in terms of how close we can lean towards cockpit obstacles.  Some aircraft are clearly calibrated differently than others in this regard (note: not concerned with total space available in cockpits large and small, but the point at which the head distance from an object activates the VR head restriction). 

For example, one can move ones head closer to cockpit restrictions like the gunsight (and other obstructions) in the La5 than the gunsight (and other obstructions) in the Spitfire.  It is easy to cope with the overall head-to-object restriction in the La5, but much harder to cope with the head-to-object restriction in the Spitfire IX; there are disparities with other aircraft too.  Aircraft are calibrated differently it would seem; at least that is the end result experience at the moment.

 

P.S.  I am a Pimax 5k+ user.

 

Happy landings,

 

Talisman

Edited September 25, 2019 by 56RAF_Talisman

[OrLoK]

the VR limit thing, whilst well intentioned is my main bugbear with the game.

 

I'd like to see an option to disable it in all modes.

 

but I fully see the devs reasoning behind it even if I think it's misguided

 

it won't stop me playing in VR though!