Out of curiosity - what would an Ardennes/Bulge vehicle set look like?

[Avimimus]

It has been years since I looked into this so I'm pretty rusty... but I'm still curious...

 

I suppose British and American Sherman variants (possibly with rockets)? American Tank Destroyers? Possibly a British assault gun? German casement tank-destroyers? King Tiger?
 

For the sake of speculation and amusement: What were units typically equipped with? What was common?

[SCG_judgedeath3]

This should be the next expansion for the tank mode easily.

My vote for german tanks:
King tiger Henschel version as this was the standard version at this stage of the war.

Panther G Late version.

Jagdpanther

Jagdtiger

 

Allied:

Sherman W76
M36 jacksson

Churchill MK VII

M18 Hellcat

Comet

[Yogiflight]

Instead of Jagdtiger, which from what I read rarely saw combat, Jagdpanzer IV and Jagdpanzer 38t (Hetzer, it never really had this name)

And of course added by Tiger 1 (with Panther cupola and gunsight with additional 5x zoom) and Panzer IV G. IIRC especially the Panzer IV saw a lot of action during that time.

Edited August 31, 2019 by Yogiflight

[radio]

I think Pz IV H/ J at that time. Panther A or, and G; Tiger II, late version Tiger I and any Jagdpanzer. 

[Yogiflight]

1 hour ago, radio said:

I think Pz IV H/ J at that time

LOL, yes of course, I completely forgot, that the G was not the last version.

[SCG_judgedeath3]

Those tanks and StuG III G should be in the normandy or some eastern front expansion set in mid 1944, bagration maybe?

[Cybermat47]

I think we should have:

 

Panzer IV H

Panther G

StuG III

Sturmpanzer IV

Panzer VI B Königstiger

 

M4A1 Sherman

Cromwell Mk. IV

M36 Tank Destroyer

Sherman Firefly

Churchill Mk. IV

[1./KG4_OXO123]

just lets have them      how good would that be ,  just put them all in Bodenplatte  !

 

atb oxo

[radio]

Jagdpanther was more in Westfront than Eastfront. With over 400 tanks in produktion  he comes in late 1944 to front. And Panther G cames also late 44 to front so are more A in use than G.

Edited September 1, 2019 by radio

[SCG_judgedeath3]

Panther G entered production in march 1944 so wouldnt say its late, at normandy most of the Panthers were A model but by battle of the bulge most of them were G model.The chinn turret version entered production in september 1944.
The G version was the most produced version:  Panzer V ‘Panther’ Ausf.G (Sd.Kfz.171): Approx production. total 2961

Edited September 1, 2019 by judgedeath3

[RIVALDO]

Isn't Tiger enough for you, guys??

[SCG_judgedeath3]

Cant never have too many german tanks
Panther is the one Im waiting for: faster than T-34, better armoured than the tiger and a better gun and sleek and awesome design, whats not to love with the panther ?
StuG III Also but its not listed in the prokarovka tank list.

[Yogiflight]

22 minutes ago, judgedeath3 said:

StuG III Also but its not listed in the prokarovka tank list.

It is the one, that is definitely missing

[dixieflyer]

On 8/31/2019 at 7:12 PM, judgedeath3 said:

Those tanks and StuG III G should be in the normandy or some eastern front expansion set in mid 1944, bagration maybe?

Judge,

           While the intro of those vehicles certainly predates the Bulge, there were plenty of them being used in the Bulge.

[JG1_Wittmann]

I would say,  let's get the "advertised"  Vehicle set completed first.  I believe they still owe us 4 vehicles :

SU-122,

SU-152,

PzKpfw V Ausf.D "Panther "

Sd. Kfz. 184 "Ferdinand"

 

It does seem odd  that the DEVS  left out the SU85  and the SU100, in favor of 2 self propelled artillery pieces, less effective in an Anti-Tank Role.

Would be nice after this set is done  to see  scout cars for both sides with some speed  to be able to scout.

 

 

[TacticalOni]

On 9/2/2019 at 2:16 PM, judgedeath3 said:

whats not to love with the panther ?

So I work at a tank museum and we have a Panther, and I can guarantee you the turret ring is about 10" too small. The crew in the turret is packed in such a horrible way, I'd rather be in a Sherman any day of the week. 

[I.JG3_CDRSEABEE]

4 minutes ago, Sledgehammer427 said:

So I work at a tank museum and we have a Panther, and I can guarantee you the turret ring is about 10" too small. The crew in the turret is packed in such a horrible way, I'd rather be in a Sherman any day of the week. 

Even Pershings feared the Panther!

[SCG_judgedeath3]

17 minutes ago, Sledgehammer427 said:

So I work at a tank museum and we have a Panther, and I can guarantee you the turret ring is about 10" too small. The crew in the turret is packed in such a horrible way, I'd rather be in a Sherman any day of the week. 

Ergonomics wasnt the best nor the safety for the crew when it came to being able to escape the tank when on fire, game wise where those things dont matter its an amazing tank but in reality yep, the design and ergonomics prevented the tank from being used to the full and reach max combat effectiviness.

[LukeFF]

9 hours ago, WaNTRD said:

It does seem odd  that the DEVS  left out the SU85  and the SU100, in favor of 2 self propelled artillery pieces, less effective in an Anti-Tank Role.

 

Both of those AFVs entered service after Kursk.

[Lofte]

20 hours ago, WaNTRD said:

I would say,  let's get the "advertised"  Vehicle set completed first.  I believe they still owe us 4 vehicles :

SU-122,

SU-152,

PzKpfw V Ausf.D "Panther "

Sd. Kfz. 184 "Ferdinand"

 

Let's ask devs change their plans?

Like that:

 

SU-122 = > SU-76

Sd. Kfz. 184 "Ferdinand" => StuG III

 

..mm..?

[Avimimus]

I figured it was probably partly their availability in 1943...

 

 

24 minutes ago, Lofte said:

 

Let's ask devs change their plans?

Like that:

 

SU-122 = > SU-76

Sd. Kfz. 184 "Ferdinand" => StuG III

 

..mm..?

 

The 122mm and 152mm high explosive rounds were important for taking out the Ferdinand and Tigers... so historically and gameplay-wise they have an important role.

 

I do agree that the StuG III is very important as a vehicle... but perhaps it is better to ask for a collector vehicle, or a 1942 or 1944 sequel - then it is to ask them to go back on their announced features and research?

 

 

[Yogiflight]

They might hold back the StuG III for a second title, as you can use it pretty much everywhere, where german AFVs were involved.

[6FG_Big_Al]

47 minutes ago, Lofte said:

 

Let's ask devs change their plans?

Like that:

 

SU-122 = > SU-76

Sd. Kfz. 184 "Ferdinand" => StuG III

 

..mm..?

I don't understand the hatred against the Ferdinand. Non of our vehicles will randomly die by a transmission problem. Or spectacles like Panthers that ignite themselves when leaving the waggon will happen.
And since we don't have any infantry that can destroy us in close combat, the Ferdinand should be a powerful vehicle, which should be especially hard to destroy in distance. Moreover, the Battle of Kursk scenario is the perfect scenario not only for him but also for the Panther. After all, they had their baptism of fire there. Of course other models like a StuG would be great, but I can understand the decision of the developers.

 

I am confident that Stugs and many other vehicles will find their way into the game if TC is a success. The Ardennes would certainly be a prestigious scenario.

 

[Yogiflight]

2 hours ago, Big_Al_the_Allo said:

The Ardennes would certainly be a prestigious scenario

Yes it would be. But I don't think they will do a TC II in the Ardennes, because I don't think they will make a more detailed map, which you would be needed for TC, from a part of an existing map. To me it seems more likely, they will again bring a new smaller map like the Prokhorovka map. But maybe we will get another late war western map. That would give Mission builders the possibility to create missions in the Ardennes as well.

[Lofte]

2 hours ago, 6FG_Big_Al said:

I don't understand the hatred against the Ferdinand

Have nothing against him. But tell me - how many Fredinands were buit? Where did he used, how often? There were very very small number of them. We even don't have a historical map for them. So what we will do with them? I don't know. Only use on dogfigt-like servers, maybe..

SU-122 - it just more self propelled hopwitzer than tank-destroyer with huge time of reloading. Don't think it will be interested for most players.

I can't explain why these units were choosen for development in TC. Just can't explain.

Edited September 4, 2019 by Lofte

[SCG_judgedeath3]

1 minute ago, Lofte said:

Have nothing against him. But tell me - how many Fredinands were buit? Where did he used, how often? There were very very small number of them. We even don't have a historical map foe them. So what we will do with them? I don't know.

90 of them were produced and were used at Kursk, they were later sent back to factory for minor fixes like commander cupola, machine gun, armour and fixes to engine and crew compartment. Theyw ere then sent to Italy and some stayed on the eastern front and were used all the way up to 1945. A few of them took part in battle of Berlin even.

[Lofte]

15 minutes ago, Yogiflight said:

I don't think they will make a more detailed map, which you would be needed for TC

If Bodenplatte map would have good quality (like Moscow map) - in this case we don't need a special map for tank battles.. Mho

3 minutes ago, judgedeath3 said:

90 of them were produced and were used at Kursk

90. Great.

Just compare numbers:

Su-76 - 14292

StuG III - 9250

Edited September 4, 2019 by Lofte

[SCG_judgedeath3]

Germans are experts at making various tank models in limited numbers xD But yes, StuG III would be a better fit but Elefant/ferdinand is well known for kursk battle and more well known for the causaul tankers out there and I cant see ferdinand/elefant fit in any other tank crew expansion release plans, maybe if they do a battle of berlin expansion but I doubt they will.

[Hummels]

As I know B6 wrote that Ferdinand (and Pz V too) will not be included in the offline campaign on Prokhorovka, because they weren't there. I agree that Stug would be a better then Ferdinand
 

 

My thoughts on the Ardennes

 

- Any late modification of the Pz. IV
- Jagdpanther

- Late Panther Pz. V or Late tiger Pz. VI 88 mm

- King Tiger
- Jagdpanzer IV or Jagdpanzer 38
- Wirbelwind (controlled antiaircraft gun)

- Any late modification of the Sherman
- M10 Wolverin
- Churchill Mk IV
- M26 Pershing
- British Comet A34
- American M16 with 4 brownings (controlled antiaircraft gun)

Edited September 4, 2019 by 1/SG2_Hummels

[Tyberan]

An ardennes map would be cool. You totally make a kampgruppe pieper retreat through Belgium a campaign on both sides. 

 

Kts 

Jagdpanzer Iv's

Late g model Panthers

Late model Sherman's etc

 

It's a small confined area and well documented. The dual in the mist series of books are excellent references. 

 

 

Edited September 5, 2019 by Tyberan

[BBarnes005]

My thoughts: 

M4A3 Sherman

M4A3E8 Sherman or Firefly 

M4A3E2 Jumbo Sherman or Churchill 

M18 Hellcat or Cromwell 

M36 Jackson 

M16 Half-Track 

 

Panzer IV Ausf H/F 

Panther G 

King Tiger Ausf B 

StuG III or StuG IV 

Jagdpanzer IV or Jagdpanzer 38t 

Wirblewind  

 

Personally I think the next best step for Tank Crew would be Operation Bagration: 

T-34-85

T-34-76 1943 

IS-2 or IS-1 

SU-85 or SU-100

ISU-152 or SU-76. 

 

Panther 

StuG III 

Panzer IV Ausf H 

Tiger I Ausf E 

Jagdpanther 

Ostwind 

 

Edited September 11, 2019 by BBarnes005

[-=PHX=-SuperEtendard]

On 9/2/2019 at 3:16 PM, judgedeath3 said:

 whats not to love with the panther ?

 

The 45mm side armor ?