Allowing crew members to switch positions

[Tonk99]

So I was playing a mission and while playing my gunner got knocked out, and subsequently took me out of the action as all I have are my commander and hull machineguns. I think it would be a really good idea if a system like in the game Steel Armor: Blaze of War where you can tell say your hull gunner or your loader to switch onto your gunner's seat so that even though you are less effective, you are not taken out of the fight. I hope there are plans for this as I'm sure it was realistic for a tank crew to be down a man but instead of getting out of the tank and risking their lives to then take up the position of the gunner or the driver. What are your guys' thoughts on this? Good idea or nah?

[SCG_Slater]

Yeah we need that, make it so loading time will increase but just because someone got knocked out we should still be able to fight. 

[SCG_judgedeath3]

Yes, and no: The routine when a tank is hit and penetrated is to abandon the tank, very rarely one stay inside and wait for the enemy to hit you again, but in certain situations the crew could stay and fight if they know they will win it and is in friendly area or safe place.
But after that they would try to abort the mission as they are not fully combat ready so going on with the mission is a big no. Unless the platoon leader and the leadership demand you to fight to the death

[Tonk99]

21 hours ago, judgedeath3 said:

Yes, and no: The routine when a tank is hit and penetrated is to abandon the tank, very rarely one stay inside and wait for the enemy to hit you again, but in certain situations the crew could stay and fight if they know they will win it and is in friendly area or safe place.
But after that they would try to abort the mission as they are not fully combat ready so going on with the mission is a big no. Unless the platoon leader and the leadership demand you to fight to the death

Yeah I can see that, but when I was hit it was behind a friendly line and we had almost crushed the opposition. I can definitely agree there should be a factor of how many enemies are around you that makes the crew decide. But having seen some american tank crews lose a crew member and still fight until the enemy is cleared I'm sure the Soviets would do the same. But yeah if the tank is getting shelled multiple times over I agree the crew should just bail.

On 8/9/2019 at 12:51 PM, SCG_Slater said:

Yeah we need that, make it so loading time will increase but just because someone got knocked out we should still be able to fight. 

Yeah I think it would be a good idea. I'm also sure it would be very annoying when the campaign comes out to have to restart an entire mission because you got your gunner/driver taken out by a stray shell that was fired at your line of tanks.

[SCG_Slater]

On 8/9/2019 at 5:35 PM, judgedeath3 said:

Yes, and no: The routine when a tank is hit and penetrated is to abandon the tank, very rarely one stay inside and wait for the enemy to hit you again, but in certain situations the crew could stay and fight if they know they will win it and is in friendly area or safe place.
But after that they would try to abort the mission as they are not fully combat ready so going on with the mission is a big no. Unless the platoon leader and the leadership demand you to fight to the death

To the death and beyond! And then we respawn ?

[SCG_judgedeath3]

German and most allied doctrins was to abandon the tank once it has received a penetrating hit, but yeah more fun that way

[vlad_8011]

I think its needed. Right now my loader in KV-1 was taken down - loader role is relatively easy, and anyone can do it - but i coudnt DO ANYTHING, i was immobilized and could not load a gun. I was was waiting till germans destroy me. Every tank sim have that option - il 2 need it also.

[CCG_Pips]

16 minutes ago, vlad_8011 said:

I think its needed. Right now my loader in KV-1 was taken down - loader role is relatively easy, and anyone can do it - but i coudnt DO ANYTHING, i was immobilized and could not load a gun. I was was waiting till germans destroy me. Every tank sim have that option - il 2 need it also.

You are right, but in another hand (until improvement will be released), you can escape from your tank and save (vitual) lives of remaining crew....?

[Aliocha62Mordreddesurmia]

Hence this reflection of where the simulation begins and the fun of the game ends! Is Tank crew a real World War II tank simulator or just another arcade war game? It's difficult to find a balance between the playful aspect and the desire to be as close as possible to the real conditions of a tanker of that era.
 I admit that it's sometimes frustrating to have to abandon your tank after more than an hour's drive and without even knowing where the fatal blow came from, but I think that's what a crew had to go through, with the notable difference of the psychological aspect and the stress less for us?

[-332FG-Magic_Zach]

Bump.  I want to see this.  It gets really irritating when just my gunner is killed, and it essentially puts me out of action, even if his death is the only serious damage I got, and even if I'm no longer being attacked.  This is making it difficult to enjoy tank gameplay.

[69th_chuter]

I used to work on an airline's fuel crew (B747, DC-10, 767 ... well ... etc. ) year's ago and one of the requirements for qualifying was being able to remove an incapacitated coworker from the fuel tank*.  With that experience I'm not sure what it would be like, in reality, to try and get someone removed from their station in a tank and, if not doing so from outside, where would you put them after you got them out of the way?  Maybe there could be a Crew Member Removal and Substitution option in the Repair Menu that would take a few minutes and require hatches open.  Heinz could be strapped on the back of the tank because we don't leave anyone behind.

[Tonk99]

9 hours ago, chuter said:

I used to work on an airline's fuel crew (B747, DC-10, 767 ... well ... etc. ) year's ago and one of the requirements for qualifying was being able to remove an incapacitated coworker from the fuel tank*.  With that experience I'm not sure what it would be like, in reality, to try and get someone removed from their station in a tank and, if not doing so from outside, where would you put them after you got them out of the way?  Maybe there could be a Crew Member Removal and Substitution option in the Repair Menu that would take a few minutes and require hatches open.  Heinz could be strapped on the back of the tank because we don't leave anyone behind.

In SABOW it simply switched the dead guy into the old position and the fresh guy into the new position. Also I remember seeing footage of a tank duel where an American tank got hit and the commander had to be dragged out of the tank by some infantry men so I think it would be feasible. That idea of it being a repair sequence sounds like an interesting idea. 

[69th_chuter]

My point was more about the practicality.  An uncooperative person or body is very difficult to move especially in a confined space. 

 

It's a bit morbid, but one could, if so inclined, google "dead French crewman being removed from tank" and checkout the first hit and kinda get an idea of the effort required to remove the otherwise uncooperative.  Of course, this only deals with the external part of removal, the easy part.

 

 

[Tonk99]

17 minutes ago, chuter said:

My point was more about the practicality.  An uncooperative person or body is very difficult to move especially in a confined space. 

 

It's a bit morbid, but one could, if so inclined, google "dead French crewman being removed from tank" and checkout the first hit and kinda get an idea of the effort required to remove the otherwise uncooperative.  Of course, this only deals with the external part of removal, the easy part.

 

 

Yeah that is a good point which is why I would say your idea of making it a repair sequence would be a good idea. With that I also think then that the body of the fallen crewman should stay until you do said action instead of just dissapearing after a couple minutes

[inexus]

I think it's a good idea to support switching roles. Steel beasts supports this and that's not considered an arcade sim 

 

Based on people like it or not it could be added as a setting to enable/disable this functionality for SP and MP. 

[[SN]_Reaper_]

In "Steel Fury", you can "physically" transfer to the place of the deceased crew member. Only if the commander is killed, the tank is immediately considered destroyed. Commander cannot be replaced.

One way or another, everything has long been done in other games. You just have to add it to TC.

[Tonk99]

12 hours ago, dragon_7611 said:

In "Steel Fury", you can "physically" transfer to the place of the deceased crew member. Only if the commander is killed, the tank is immediately considered destroyed. Commander cannot be replaced.

One way or another, everything has long been done in other games. You just have to add it to TC.

I do agree with that to a certain extent. I do agree that the role of the commander as a leader shouldn't be able to be replaced and that it is probably very likely that if the commander died the crew wouldn't be very focused on fighting back more than just retreating. But I do feel that maybe in a more arcade sense you can still recrew the commanders position but not use the commander commands. For example in the T-34 the commander is the gunner and I feel the loader could switch over to the gunner/commander position. But I do agree that the commander in his ability to lead shouldn't be replaceable. 

[MikhaVT]

On 4/17/2020 at 5:52 PM, chuter said:

My point was more about the practicality.  An uncooperative person or body is very difficult to move especially in a confined space. 

 

It's a bit morbid, but one could, if so inclined, google "dead French crewman being removed from tank" and checkout the first hit and kinda get an idea of the effort required to remove the otherwise uncooperative.  Of course, this only deals with the external part of removal, the easy part.

 

 

There's a reason why modern tanker suits have aids to help lift a crewman out of a tank, but that is still not easy according to the few M1 Abrams crewmen i talked to. (driver being incredibly difficult!)