HP Reverb review

[jarg1]

28 minutes ago, Dagwoodyt said:

On both versions of Odyssey I have found .62000 gamma works well, gets rid of a lot of the environmental haze effect. Black smoke effects look great. Certainly hope playing with gamma is similarly helpful on Reverb. I am very skeptical that any HMD that gives "washed out" colors deserves to be designated as "enterprise" grade. Seems like "enterprise" designation would mandate high quality color fidelity. Also, I can understand how someone going from an O+ to Reverb would see an increase in clarity. What I am not sure of is how the Reverb would compare to the original O.

 

I had a Odyssey Plus and it was a very noticeable upgrade in visual quality going to the Reverb.  Given the much higher pixel count of the Reverb, I can't see how the original Odyssey would be close.

 

[Dagwoodyt]

24 minutes ago, jarg1 said:

 

I had a Odyssey Plus and it was a very noticeable upgrade in visual quality going to the Reverb.  Given the much higher pixel count of the Reverb, I can't see how the original Odyssey would be close.

 

The magic that was worked on the + degraded the image. This to the extent that after two days of using the + with VRcover foam upgrade I shelved the + again and returned to the original O. I doubt that pixel count overrides all else. 

[PO_Baldrick]

1 minute ago, Dagwoodyt said:

The magic that was worked on the + degraded the image. This to the extent that after two days of using the + with VRcover foam upgrade I shelved the + again and returned to the original O. I doubt that pixel count overrides all else. 

The + attempted to remove SDE on existing OLED lenses. The Reverb does so while significantly improving clarity. The trade off is the lack of colour vibrance compared with OLED but for me the clarity trumps everything first gen. Hopefully things will improve colour wise but my key issue with previous VR headsets was clarity & SDE and the Reverb takes VR forward IMHO.

[ICDP]

8 minutes ago, PO_Baldrick said:

The + attempted to remove SDE on existing OLED lenses. The Reverb does so while significantly improving clarity. The trade off is the lack of colour vibrance compared with OLED but for me the clarity trumps everything first gen. Hopefully things will improve colour wise but my key issue with previous VR headsets was clarity & SDE and the Reverb takes VR forward IMHO.

 

I would love to try the Reverb because clarity was always my issue with CV1 and even Pimax 5K+ isn't good enough yet.  My fear would be going back to small FoV.

[PO_Baldrick]

Sim Racing but the reaction sums up it up compared to a CV1. Warning the video contains some bad language.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8NAlsGTouZs

[Dagwoodyt]

The CV1 is obsolete. I still have my CV1 and it runs on a Win7 pc. I rarely use it, but at least it gives me a use for the base stations

Looks like the VR market is in a period of contraction now. None of the hmd makers are willing to bite the bullet and market a design that satisfies relative to the issues of ergonomics, resolution and color “vibrance”. I see the O+ as symptomatic of what seems to be mostly marketing strategies that use a “hook” feature in order to pump sales so that other cost cutting effects get overlooked. Maybe there isn’t really a market for “enterprise” hmd’s either cause it would seem that both high image resolution and color “vibrance” would be required in that market. I think the marketing of the O+ is a good example of how a “hook” feature can be used to generate new sales with what in effect was a downgrade from the original O.

[-332FG-Gordon200]

Has anyone determined the best settings in Nvidia Control Panel for the Reverb?

Mine is due to be delivered today.

[PO_Baldrick]

27 minutes ago, Dagwoodyt said:

The CV1 is obsolete. I still have my CV1 and it runs on a Win7 pc. I rarely use it, but at least it gives me a use for the base stations

Looks like the VR market is in a period of contraction now. None of the hmd makers are willing to bite the bullet and market a design that satisfies relative to the issues of ergonomics, resolution and color “vibrance”. I see the O+ as symptomatic of what seems to be mostly marketing strategies that use a “hook” feature in order to pump sales so that other cost cutting effects get overlooked. Maybe there isn’t really a market for “enterprise” hmd’s either cause it would seem that both high image resolution and color “vibrance” would be required in that market. I think the marketing of the O+ is a good example of how a “hook” feature can be used to generate new sales with what in effect was a downgrade from the original O.

I think the focus has been on image clarity and significant reduction of SDE. The new breed of LCD screens have made massive strides in this area which has been the bone of contention for many people new to VR, love the immersion, don't like the resolution and SDE. These new screen give the kind of pixel and sub pixel density required to dramatically improve the visual clarity. Yes, it comes at the expense of colours but IMHO tackling the image clarity was a key priority. The next leap will be further improvements in screen tech to push clarity forward and get OLED type colour range.

 

In my view products like the Reverb and Index really are pushing VR forward.

 

The O+ was a bit of a stopgap to tackle what was perceived as the key issue facing VR, the SDE, using the tech available at the time with the existing lenses. I don't think many Reverb or Index owners would see the original Odyssey as current.

[Dagwoodyt]

4 hours ago, PO_Baldrick said:

I think the focus has been on image clarity and significant reduction of SDE. The new breed of LCD screens have made massive strides in this area which has been the bone of contention for many people new to VR, love the immersion, don't like the resolution and SDE. These new screen give the kind of pixel and sub pixel density required to dramatically improve the visual clarity. Yes, it comes at the expense of colours but IMHO tackling the image clarity was a key priority. The next leap will be further improvements in screen tech to push clarity forward and get OLED type colour range.

 

In my view products like the Reverb and Index really are pushing VR forward.

 

The O+ was a bit of a stopgap to tackle what was perceived as the key issue facing VR, the SDE, using the tech available at the time with the existing lenses. I don't think many Reverb or Index owners would see the original Odyssey as current.

The O+ was not a "stopgap" effort to push VR forward. It seems more a means of enticing people to part with their money by marketing a product that was cheaper to produce and selling it at what seemed like a bargain price. That formula looks to be ascendant among hmd manufacturers ATM. Hopefully that will change but likely not anytime soon. To suggest that the O+ represents a step up from the original O just because of the filter that was applied seems a stretch. Remember that the SDE offends some folks more than it does others. For me the O+ filter is tiring on the eyes. The "sweet spot" is small and concentrated on a small area at lens center. Positioning of the  O+ mask is thus very "fiddly" while the hmd ergonomics were sacrificed for the apparent purpose of making the unit cheaper to produce. These issues were discussed at length in reviews. So, no, I do not see the O+ as an advancement over the original Odyssey.

Edited August 24, 2019 by Dagwoodyt

[PO_Baldrick]

4 hours ago, Dagwoodyt said:

The O+ was not a "stopgap" effort to push VR forward. It seems more a means of enticing people to part with their money by marketing a product that was cheaper to produce and selling it at what seemed like a bargain price. That formula looks to be ascendant among hmd manufacturers ATM. Hopefully that will change but likely not anytime soon. To suggest that the O+ represents a step up from the original O just because of the filter that was applied seems a stretch. Remember that the SDE offends some folks more than it does others. For me the O+ filter is tiring on the eyes. The "sweet spot" is small and concentrated on a small area at lens center. Positioning of the  O+ mask is thus very "fiddly" while the hmd ergonomics were sacrificed for the apparent purpose of making the unit cheaper to produce. These issues were discussed at length in reviews. So, no, I do not see the O+ as an advancement over the original Odyssey.

Sure it was a stopgap to grab some sales based on the lack of SDE using existing screens prior to new screen tech emerging. It has a relatively short shelf life. It wasn't simply marketing though, it enjoyed a period as being seen as the best tech addressing the biggest issue facing VR for many users. The VR reviewers at the time were all over it as a breakthrough in terms of visual quality.

 

MRTV: "The Screendoor Effect is a thing of the past and it is just a joy to experience VR like this. It is a huge leap if you come from the original Vive or the Rift, and it is still a big difference if you come from the Vive Pro or the Original Samsung Odyssey "

 

The O+ also had a number of changes to make it more comfortable and allow for users wearing glasses so it wasn't simply a screen filter update. RoadtoVR: " The standout feature for Samsung’s new Odyssey+ headset is its so-called “anti-SDE” display, but beyond that it appears that the headset has actually seen minor adjustments in a handful of areas. With the first Odyssey headset having poor ergonomics, we’re hoping that these adjustments will make the headset more comfortable for a wider range of users."

 

wearable-technologies:" Since the original Odyssey was criticized for ergonomic issues, Odyssey+ features improvements that should be noticeable."

 

The Index is light years better built and ergonomically designed than the O+, which was supposed to address issues with the original Odyssey. So I don't agree with your theory things are going backwards in this respect. We just need the LCD screens to improve colour wise or OLED tech catch up in terms of pixel density but IMHO the current sets are much more usable in terms of visual quality and comfort than they were a year ago.

[71st_AH_statuskuo]

16 hours ago, Gordon200 said:

Has anyone determined the best settings in Nvidia Control Panel for the Reverb?

Mine is due to be delivered today.

I left mine unchanged from when I had the Rift and everything seemed to fine with the Reverb, pretty much have everything turned off with pre-rendered frames at 1.

 

[Dagwoodyt]

8 hours ago, PO_Baldrick said:

Sure it was a stopgap to grab some sales based on the lack of SDE using existing screens prior to new screen tech emerging. It has a relatively short shelf life. It wasn't simply marketing though, it enjoyed a period as being seen as the best tech addressing the biggest issue facing VR for many users. The VR reviewers at the time were all over it as a breakthrough in terms of visual quality.

 

MRTV: "The Screendoor Effect is a thing of the past and it is just a joy to experience VR like this. It is a huge leap if you come from the original Vive or the Rift, and it is still a big difference if you come from the Vive Pro or the Original Samsung Odyssey "

 

The O+ also had a number of changes to make it more comfortable and allow for users wearing glasses so it wasn't simply a screen filter update. RoadtoVR: " The standout feature for Samsung’s new Odyssey+ headset is its so-called “anti-SDE” display, but beyond that it appears that the headset has actually seen minor adjustments in a handful of areas. With the first Odyssey headset having poor ergonomics, we’re hoping that these adjustments will make the headset more comfortable for a wider range of users."

 

wearable-technologies:" Since the original Odyssey was criticized for ergonomic issues, Odyssey+ features improvements that should be noticeable."

 

The Index is light years better built and ergonomically designed than the O+, which was supposed to address issues with the original Odyssey. So I don't agree with your theory things are going backwards in this respect. We just need the LCD screens to improve colour wise or OLED tech catch up in terms of pixel density but IMHO the current sets are much more usable in terms of visual quality and comfort than they were a year ago.

Of course the VR reviewers showered praise on the O+. Not a discussion I want to venture into. The range of + headset adjustments was actually decreased, apparently to simplify construction requirements for the O+. The resulting poor ergonomics is the reason for the VRcover replacement foam for the O+. Then too the range of IPD adjustment was decreased from that of the original O. I never stated that things are "going backwards" in VR HMD's. What I have said is that manufacturers are likely to produce headsets that focus on one "hook" feature in order to distract from what is taken away such as IPD adjustment range. VR is no longer "halo" tech.

Edited August 24, 2019 by Dagwoodyt

[thermoregulator]

I have Rift S and Reverb (gen 1) currently. I used to have Rift CV 1 before. I received Reverb yesterday. Rift S is in my opinion better in every aspect except, of course, the resolution. To my surprise though, the difference between those 2 are not that big, and step from CV1 to Rift S is much more noticeable than step from S to Reverb.

 

Rift S has much larger sweet spot, image on reverb is in fact crispier only in the center of the lenses. I can read the instruments in Rift S with no problems, so I can see the difference only on more distant objects, where you can see more details in reverb. But, again, only if those object are in the sweet spot.

 

Rift S is also more comfortable (my nose cant fit properly in reverb) and has better buil quality, it feels more premium. Reverb feels crapy in comparision.

 

What is strange OTOH, is that i get better performance on reverb (i7 7700k 4.8Ghz, 3200 16CL 16GB RAM, 1080ti OC). In cases where I am locked to 40 FPS on Rift S, i get fairly often 90 FPS on reverb with much higher pixel density (250% in Steam VR)...

 

Next week my ryzen 3900x, so i can do some further testing.

 

Anyway, I think I am going to return Reverb an stick with Rift S

[dburne]

11 minutes ago, thermoregulator said:

I have Rift S and Reverb (gen 1) currently. I used to have Rift CV 1 before. I received Reverb yesterday. Rift S is in my opinion better in every aspect except, of course, the resolution. To my surprise though, the difference between those 2 are not that big, and step from CV1 to Rift S is much more noticeable than step from S to Reverb.

 

Rift S has much larger sweet spot, image on reverb is in fact crispier only in the center of the lenses. I can read the instruments in Rift S with no problems, so I can see the difference only on more distant objects, where you can see more details in reverb. But, again, only if those object are in the sweet spot.

 

Rift S is also more comfortable (my nose cant fit properly in reverb) and has better buil quality, it feels more premium. Reverb feels crapy in comparision.

 

What is strange OTOH, is that i get better performance on reverb (i7 7700k 4.8Ghz, 3200 16CL 16GB RAM, 1080ti OC). In cases where I am locked to 40 FPS on Rift S, i get fairly often 90 FPS on reverb with much higher pixel density (250% in Steam VR)...

 

Next week my ryzen 3900x, so i can do some further testing.

 

Anyway, I think I am going to return Reverb an stick with Rift S

 

Thanks for the report, I was keeping an eye on Reverb but have been very happy with the Rift S. 

[LLv24_Zami]

7 minutes ago, thermoregulator said:

~Snip

Sounds good to me. 

 

I've ordered Rift S, sadly couple of more weeks before delivery. Looks like Rift S is a solid piece of equipment. I had CV1 earlier but sold it mainly because of the resolution. Rift S seems to be nice improvent in that area. I don't expect perfect resolution, just good enough. Well, it will be seen when I get my headset. 

[Dagwoodyt]

The thing about VR "sweet spot" is that if it's large you may not realize that such an issue exists. If it's small though your eyes may start to complain pretty quickly.

Edited August 24, 2019 by Dagwoodyt

[Tapi]

HP claims the headset faults were recognaized and fixed:

https://www.roadtovr.com/hp-reverb-stock-new-inventory-fix/

[dburne]

3 hours ago, Tapi said:

HP claims the headset faults were recognaized and fixed:

https://www.roadtovr.com/hp-reverb-stock-new-inventory-fix/

 

Good to see official word from the company on this. 

[Bullets]

Good to hear some news from them. The lack of information was ridiculous. Will probably wait for the consumer version then.  

[-332FG-Gordon200]

3 hours ago, Tapi said:

HP claims the headset faults were recognaized and fixed:

Mine arrived Friday evening and has been working flawlessly.

I was a little surprised that the headset was smaller than others I've owned - Rift CV1, Odyssey+. But the smaller screen is sharp edge to edge. I don't see where it is 'sweeter' in the center than the edges.

It's light weight and fits securely against my face. Scanning the skies and checking my 6 quickly is effortless. Something I was concerned about with the other later HMDs. The human neck isn't meant to support weight forward of the nose.

Another concern was IPD adjustment as mine is at the upper limit. WMR settings provide an easy and accurate adjustment from 59 to 67mm.

With refresh rate set to 90Hz I'm getting upper 80s to 90 low over towns and dips into mid 60s with one enemy in flames, 4 paras in the air and a new enemy spawning overhead.

HDR on, Sharpness on, Mirrors off, Clouds medium, Landscape 4X, Draw distance 100km, Gamma .08, AA 4X, Steam SS 136%. 

Edited August 27, 2019 by Gordon200

[71st_AH_statuskuo]

Have you tried SS at 180% in applications ?   That should get you near the native resolution,  assuming the video SS is set at 100%.  

[PO_Baldrick]

2 minutes ago, 71st_AH_statuskuo said:

Have you tried SS at 180% in applications ?   That should get you near the native resolution,  assuming the video SS is set at 100%.  

Depends if he is running WMR for SteamVR beta or standard, the beta corrects the slider in SteamVR. 74% is about native and 100 includes some oversampling to allow for the fresnel lenses

[-332FG-Gordon200]

8 hours ago, 71st_AH_statuskuo said:

Have you tried SS at 180% in applications ?

Yes I did and it was beautiful. However, I was getting micro-stutters and backed the SS down to lessen the workload for my non-overclocked 2080ti.

I should add that I used Widmovr prescription lenses with my Rift and Odyssey+. They aren't available for Reverb at the moment and I am flying without visual assist and a much sharper image. I am near sighted and speculate the focal point must be less than the 2 meters for Odyssey+. Something closer to one meter is my guess as I don't need my glasses for monitor work.

Some users of the Reverb have reported washed out colors. Admittedly the colors in the Reverb are not as rich but I only see the difference on lightly colored objects. Runways and wheat fields are lighter. Objects in wheat fields are easier to spot and I don't perceive the runway surface (gravel and ruts etc) as well. Concrete runways are bright and almost white. With HDR on and gamma at .8 I am where the Odyssey+ was at 1.1 gamma. 

[SCG_motoadve]

13 minutes ago, Gordon200 said:

Yes I did and it was beautiful. However, I was getting micro-stutters and backed the SS down to lessen the workload for my non-overclocked 2080ti.

I should add that I used Widmovr prescription lenses with my Rift and Odyssey+. They aren't available for Reverb at the moment and I am flying without visual assist and a much sharper image. I am near sighted and speculate the focal point must be less than the 2 meters for Odyssey+. Something closer to one meter is my guess as I don't need my glasses for monitor work.

Some users of the Reverb have reported washed out colors. Admittedly the colors in the Reverb are not as rich but I only see the difference on lightly colored objects. Runways and wheat fields are lighter. Objects in wheat fields are easier to spot and I don't perceive the runway surface (gravel and ruts etc) as well. Concrete runways are bright and almost white. With HDR on and gamma at .8 I am where the Odyssey+ was at 1.1 gamma. 

Change gamma to.7 in the startup file and looks much better.

[apollon01]

7 hours ago, Gordon200 said:

I should add that I used Widmovr prescription lenses with my Rift and Odyssey+. They aren't available for Reverb at the moment and I am flying without visual assist and a much sharper image.

 

https://vroptician.com/prescription-lens-inserts/hp-reverb/

 

Mine are being shipped now so I can't comment on quality. I should get them still this week though and will report back, ok?

[-332FG-Gordon200]

44 minutes ago, apollon01 said:

 

https://vroptician.com/prescription-lens-inserts/hp-reverb/

 

Mine are being shipped now so I can't comment on quality. I should get them still this week though and will report back, ok?

Yes, please do.

[apollon01]

On ‎8‎/‎28‎/‎2019 at 8:31 AM, Gordon200 said:

Yes, please do.

 

OK, I am just testing the Reverb with the VRoptitian lenses - and they are OK. They snap nicely into the place and work as well as the WidmoVR lenses in my O+.

 

I can't really say whether they restrict the FOV in any way since without the lenses I do not see much

[-332FG-Gordon200]

4 hours ago, apollon01 said:

They snap nicely into the place and work as well as the WidmoVR lenses in my O+.

Thank you for that assessment.

I had Widmovr lenses for my Odyssey+ as well. One recent review of Widmovr lenses said they are now 3D printed from inferior materials unlike previously. When I last checked their website for availability WIndows Defender alerted me it was trying to obtain personal data and blocked access to the site.

[Urra]

On 8/23/2019 at 5:09 PM, Gordon200 said:

Has anyone determined the best settings in Nvidia Control Panel for the Reverb?

Mine is due to be delivered today.

Control panel don't know, but make your game window 1600x900 to keep vid card overhead down, and set ingame AA setting 4, max, while keeping steam hmd resolution as close to 188% as possible(native resolution). I ended up with some outstanding sharpness and it seems possible to iD friend or foe from 4km away.

[-332FG-Gordon200]

1 hour ago, TunaEatsLion said:

Control panel don't know, but make your game window 1600x900 to keep vid card overhead down, and set ingame AA setting 4, max, while keeping steam hmd resolution as close to 188% as possible(native resolution). I ended up with some outstanding sharpness and it seems possible to iD friend or foe from 4km away.

The image at 188 SS is unbelievable. It'll be another two weeks before my prescription lenses arrive but I'm flying confidently now.

Reverb combined with lefunseste's zoom mod is awesome.

[9./JG54Kirin]

One caveat. The newest Windows update 1903 did change the WMR scaling for the Reverb. If you are using the beta branch of WMR for Steam you should leave SS at 100% which gives you the native resolution for the Reverb.

 

Only tried DCS so far but the clarity is way above the Odyssey and Vive I had. Will try some Il2 today probably.

[PO_Baldrick]

1 hour ago, 9./JG54Kirin said:

One caveat. The newest Windows update 1903 did change the WMR scaling for the Reverb. If you are using the beta branch of WMR for Steam you should leave SS at 100% which gives you the native resolution for the Reverb.

 

Only tried DCS so far but the clarity is way above the Odyssey and Vive I had. Will try some Il2 today probably.

 

100% SS in SteamVR using the WMR for Steam beta is a a bit above native. SteamVR adds some overhead to compensate for the Fresnel lenses to optimise the centre image. 74% is the same as 188% on the non beta (approx native). So for direct comparison use 74% and add more if your system can take it. Plus if you are happy with 188 leave it at 74.

 

That said the beta branch isn't playing nicely with some games (DiRT Rally 2 stutters with it) do sticking with non beta may not be a bad thing. Complicated isn't it?

[SCG_motoadve]

Now I am confused.

Is this the WMR Beta you are talking about? Or there is another beta?

This are my settings.

I have it on WMR Very high Beta and also 182% in Steam VR Beta.

[PO_Baldrick]

There is another beta - it is in Steam Software called Windows Mixed Reality for SteamVR

 

If you opt into beta for this software (right click properties in Steam) then the scaler will change and your resolution of 2168x2124 will equate to around 74% or so in SteamVR video settings.

 

I am not sure what the very high (beta) does in the WMR portal, I have seen some comments suggest it only effects the portal itself?

[SCG_motoadve]

7 minutes ago, PO_Baldrick said:

There is another beta - it is in Steam Software called Windows Mixed Reality for SteamVR

 

If you opt into beta for this software (right click properties in Steam) then the scaler will change and your resolution of 2168x2124 will equate to around 74% or so in SteamVR video settings.

 

I am not sure what the very high (beta) does in the WMR portal, I have seen some comments suggest it only effects the portal itself?

Thanks, any advantage of getting the WMR for Steam VR beta?

[PO_Baldrick]

3 minutes ago, II./JG77_motoadve said:

Thanks, any advantage of getting the WMR for Steam VR beta?

 

The updates can be seen here: https://steamcommunity.com/app/719950/allnews/ 

 

So maybe some performance improvements. In my experience it caused stuttering with DiRT Rally 2.0 and I have rolled back to stable version. Can't say I noticed any difference to IL2 other than the scaler change in SteamVR.

[whitav8]

@PO_Baldrick and others with Reverb ,

        Please report on your SteamVR(beta) SS settings (along with SteamVR reported pixel dimensions -assuming Applications % = 100 ) as well as ingame settings for Dynamic Resolution Factor, Anti-aliasing, and Sharpen.

 

Thanks

 

Edited August 31, 2019 by whitav8

[apollon01]

SteamVR SS setting around 140

Resolution around 2900x2900

on 2080ti

 

In He-111 h6 I can clearly read the top mounted gauges without any leaning forward or zoom. That was impossible on the O+.

[SCG_motoadve]

Turning HDR off makes the colors look much better and image even crispier, that, plus gamma 0.7 looks pretty good, no more washed out colors.

[NiiranenVR]

Well , mostly important for me - Ill have my Reverb 2-3 days from now 

I now have the rift1 and I'm like a child waiting for Christmas present 

And sure I'll re'read this page for good information 

 

And I really hope my goal is mush better see and ID the Russian plane when I'm in my bf109 ....... So ......?