Two seaters gunner accuracy

[No.23_Triggers]

Yup - not noticed any difference in damage between 7mm Vickers and 11mm Balloon Guns to date. 

[BMA_West]

4 hours ago, J5_Hellbender said:

 

So from flying the CL.II for some 25+ hours last month on Flugpark, I must say that I feel pretty safe as long as I stay low over the trenches, which is where it belongs. Running home from far behind enemy lines is never really an option as you are too slow to do so and will get caught up. Even if you survive an initial attack, you can still get caught up by the same people taking off again. I can confirm that I've only been knocked out once, though, and that was coming from AAA fire on the ground, whereas my AI gunner gets knocked out regularly by both AAA and enemy machineguns.

 

As you have noted, the AI gunner does have a very limited angle of fire compared to the Bristol (and how it was in RoF), but is extremely accurate when he can actually shoot. This seems to be a factor of relative speed and relative angle compared to the target, as you are forced to offer the gunner that small window and low G-force load or he won't shoot at all.

 

Camels are especially vulnerable to this, as they typically want to hang around, which gives you options to either scissor or raise your tail/wing at them. SEs and SPADs are far more problematic, as they tend to go for high speed passes which gives you only a very small window of opportunity. The SPAD in particular is a notoriously tough plane, and it can pack balloon guns. Bristols and Dolphins are a different story, and I'm yet to lose a single fight to them. This has more to do with how people fly these planes, than with the planes themselves. It was also the case back when I was flying the Bristol with Captain Darling in the back: on paper it's an excellent dogfighting machine (as it was in RoF), but in practice it's too big a target, has too many weak spots, the AI gunner is lacking and human gunners are still bugged. Add visibility problems when flying high, and it's a recipe for disaster, unless you focus on pure BnZ, which an S.E.5a or SPAD is just better at.

 

 

As for the twin turret guns: personally I don't fly with any mods other than gauges and bombs. Anything other than bombs (that can be dropped) drags the 180hp CL.II's performance down to an unacceptable level. I'm not a fan of the 200hp CL.II, as I don't think it fits the current planeset, same as the Fokker D.VIIF. That's a self-imposed limitation, as the 200hp can get away with twin Parabellums and still perform the same as a 180hp CL.II with a single Parabellum.

 

 

I'm wondering (out loud) whether the 180hp CL.II flown in sufficiently large numbers could give rise to a true Spring 1918 scenario without any Summer 1918 overcompressed planes available. I know that many Central flyers would prefer not to fly at all than to give up their D.VIIF, but it could just work if most of the action took place directly over NML or over German lines, as it would have happened historically.

 

There's always been this implied obligation to have artillery spotting and recon missions available for two-seaters, but currently they offer no points or other reward to those who accomplish them. This is sadly a game engine limitation and it's already led to some people quitting the Flugpark server in frustration. Focusing entirely on ground/trench attack for the CL.II would solve this, even though there are still other issues with ground attack to address.

 

 

In conclusion, I will say that the CL.II is a very rewarding option as a team plane for all skill levels and for people flying VR in particular (I will join the ranks soon), as much of the distant spotting is left to the AI gunner. Ground spotting of abandoned machineguns in trenches would be impossible without it, even for non-VR flyers. It's still nowhere near as unfair an opponent as almost any human crewed multi-seater was in RoF, but it does get exponentially better as you get more planes together. And just like that you get a Schlachtgruppe (battle group) going.

 

Bombs make also a rather big difference.

Recently spend some time comparing dropping Brisfit and Halberstadt CL.II bombs.

First timing on contact finally works (seem to remember it needed at least 3 sec).

Now lobbing the Central P.u.W bombs proves quite gratifying, try any which way you want and it is sets off except when swamped or dunked )))

The Entente Cooper and H.E.R.L. bombs are quite more whimsical;

For starters also no swamping or dunking.

Next they need dropping from a horizontal position,  diving or climbing does not work with them.

Also those bombs need a +160m drop to acquire the proper inclination for exploding.

In fact after detaching they first drop with a 45° angle which only goes to the needed 60° after enough slowing down and why need for a + 160m altitude.

Still dropping on a slope is enough get a dud.

52 minutes ago, US93_Larner said:

Yup - not noticed any difference in damage between 7mm Vickers and 11mm Balloon Guns to date. 

 

not to speek of incendiary ammo ...

Edited December 1, 2019 by West

[BMA_West]

1 hour ago, US213_Talbot said:

The easiest way to test balloon guns is go attack a balloon. In RoF it was flamed damn near instantly. FC it's exactly same with Vickers. 

 

YMMV.

 

Problem with balloons is that those are not yet available in the quick mission ground targets so one has to go MP.

There I already downed 3 or 4 on the Zoo server with an SE 5a finding they went down quite easily so I did not resort to a SPAD with balloon guns yet.

Probably there are yet stronger server settings available for those.

[slug_yuugen]

All my downed Halb's have come during their extension after bombing. Not intentionally timed but it always seems to be the point I catch up. Generally they seem to maneuvering enough whilst avoiding the AA machine guns to stop the Observer shooting back. All have them have also been a fatal first pass where I'd clipped the engine including one very satisfying tiny burst that set the engine immediately on fire, felt like I'd whopped some cannon rounds into them.

 

Tiny sample size though two downed, one where Hellbender minced me with his gun and one unfortunate mid-air collision where we both broke in the same direction in a head on after a reasonable first pass.

 

FWIW I've not noticed the diving issue with the Brisfit. I normally line up and dive from about ~1000m and on the bridges always aim to hit the abutments rather than the span since they're a much bigger target so haven't really seen the slope issue either. I'm always using a 5 second fuse though.

[No.23_Gaylion]

17 hours ago, West said:

 

Problem with balloons is that those are not yet available in the quick mission ground targets so one has to go MP.

There I already downed 3 or 4 on the Zoo server with an SE 5a finding they went down quite easily so I did not resort to a SPAD with balloon guns yet.

Probably there are yet stronger server settings available for those.

 

 

They are definitely in QMB. There is one south of Arras about 2 or 3 KM. Exactly where it sits on J5. Entente side.

[BMA_West]

5 hours ago, US213_Talbot said:

 

 

They are definitely in QMB. There is one south of Arras about 2 or 3 KM. Exactly where it sits on J5. Entente side.

 

Thanks.

I checked underneath and found it not yet in the ground targets menu.

It would be handy not having to chase them down in there.

Edited December 2, 2019 by West

[No.23_Gaylion]

I did same thing until someone told me where it was.