What if no more planes to add?

[Gambit21]

Additional stand-alone maps are an obvious solution, and have been done before...so at this juncture I’m not sure what the point of this discussion is.

[InProgress]

4 minutes ago, Gambit21 said:

Additional stand-alone maps are an obvious solution, and have been done before...so at this juncture I’m not sure what the point of this discussion is.

Done when? This is my second fly sim (after clod). I don't know every game they made and their politics. This is why I am asking. Already got answer before tho, RoF had standalone maps. And question here was if they are willing to do it again. Just wanted to know, if that's not company secret. Better to get clear answer from dev than live with false hope. 

 

Pacific is not something I am looking forward to. Would like to see more eastern front and I feel like the only way for it, is to get smaller expansions with no new planes. After all Pacific maps should be easy to make when most of it is water. Kind of gives nice opportunity for 2 expansions at once. One full Pacific with planes and career. One just a map and career.

Edited July 5, 2019 by InProgress

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

Is that 5 vs 5 rulle one of the nature that can't be broken  ,all conflict are symmetric ? If not it can't be depicted in game ? If one side has more types nobody would buy it because if red can choose more types they chances of success are higher or not interesting to fight against by blue?

Edited July 5, 2019 by 307_Tomcat

[Gambit21]

5 minutes ago, InProgress said:

Done when? This is my second fly sim (after clod). I don't know every game they made and their politics. This is why I am asking. Already got answer before tho, RoF had standalone maps. And question here was if they are willing to do it again. 

 

Yes they are willing to do it again, resources allowing.

So maybe we’ll see it, maybe we won’t for a while.

 

I know that hands are full with maps for 3 titles right now.

[=GW=seaflanker819]

Maybe before PTO release BOX has already been outdated，and  move to next version of il2

[[PFR]Sarpalaxan]

You could always add a Neutral side and put in the K+W C-36. Why? Because I want it. Gimmi Gimmi.

[Jaegermeister]

5 hours ago, InProgress said:

First one is not a problem, there is tons of expansions you can make with full plane set. Second is a problem, expansions that have planes we already have in game, so you can't make anything new.

 

So there really is no problem. New maps can be released as an update with any existing module. It’s been done before with Velikie Luki which was added on to Battle of Stalingrad and made by 3rd party group I believe.

Edited July 5, 2019 by Jaegermeister

[Gambit21]

12 hours ago, InProgress said:

 It's not about moving somewhere where you can find more planes. It's about doing a place that has no more planes to add. 

 

 

Well again, that’s a good indicator that the theater in question is not a viable full release.

[Lombra]

11 hours ago, 307_Tomcat said:

Is that 5 vs 5 rulle one of the nature that can't be broken  ,all conflict are symmetric ? If not it can't be depicted in game ? If one side has more types nobody would buy it because if red can choose more types they chances of success are higher or not interesting to fight against by blue?

 

I think this is the real question here. Would people riot if we get more or only allied planes for theatres where you're running out of axis options? (or vice versa, for that matter)

Edited July 5, 2019 by Lombra

[Gambit21]

A full release needs to be able to stand on it’s own from a commercial appeal standpoint.  

 

It’s thus not a question of “riots” but basic business sense/marketability/sales/revenue.

[Rjel]

On 7/4/2019 at 8:26 PM, Gambit21 said:

 

The list of aircraft for PTO alone, across several maps and periods could take us to 2026, and that’s without touching Korea.

 

Solomons/Midway/Coral Sea - early war

New Guinea

Mid to Late war, Leyte Gulf, Solomons etc.

 

No danger of running out of aircraft.

Oscar

3 Zero variants

val

Kate

Rufe

Pete

 

...all the floatplanes alone are alluring.

 

2 Hellcat variants, several Corsairs, and on and on...

 

 

2026? My God, that is frightening to think about. I'll be 69 years old then. I'll have been simming nearly 40 years at that point. Will I even still want to play? Will I be able to?

[Jaegermeister]

On 7/5/2019 at 2:28 PM, Lombra said:

.... if we get more or only allied planes for theatres where you're running out of axis options? (or vice versa, for that matter)

 

Not hard to figure out that if the additional plane options are only one sided for a theatre, the theatre will move. There are plenty of available Axis options, just not against the German Luftwaffe. ?

[SharpeXB]

On 7/4/2019 at 12:52 PM, InProgress said:

Sooner or later there will be nothing to add or there won't be enough planes to fill these 5 slots per side. 

I don’t think that day will ever come. 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_aircraft_of_World_War_II

[HBPencil]

I briefly touched on this subject while commenting on a suggested Normandy expansion thread. Note that I don't do MP, I'm a SP kinda guy.
I personally don't believe that the 5v5 rule is set in stone nor should it be, and as the OP pointed out the LW will run out of relevant aircraft to model. I know people are saying there's plenty of German aircraft left to be modeled but lot of those seem to be either quite rare outside of a certain time frame or else could be dealt with by adding more options in the mod list for an existing aircraft (e.g. the F-8 options for the Fw190A-8). And all that is when one assumes that there's enough data available out there for the devs to model those aircraft, or that there's an equivalent Allied aircraft for the sake of 'balance'.

An idea I've been thinking about is that already existing LW aircraft could be included in a new expansion with a small price discount for players who already own the expansions those aircraft originally shipped with.

For example:
Lets say the devs do a Normandy expansion with a campaign mode that stretches several months before and after D-Day. There's some space for new LW aircaft such as the Fw190A-7 and Ju188 however some types are already in game such as Ju88, 109G-14 and the big one, the Fw190A-8 (which came with BoS and BoBP respectively). So how about those three are included in the expansion and those of us who already have them via purchasing previous expansions that introduced those aircraft get a small discount while someone new who is purchasing their first module pays full price?

I feel the benefits would be:
- A discount for some of us!
- Any one who doesn't have BoS and BoBP gets a full module's worth of aircraft.
- Doesn't cost the devs a cent as those aircraft are already developed. Heck, they make some extra profit from them by any purchase from someone who doesn't already have BoS/BoBP.
- Saves dev time.
- Could work the other way as well. Say someone purchases Normandy as their first module and decided they like it so much they want to get BoBP, then they too could get a small discount seeing as they've already paid for those aircraft that are in both expansions.
- Could also work for relevant Allied aircraft? (I'm thinking of those that were in multiple theatres such as the P-51D)
- Could work for other scenarios e.g. mid war Channel front or Italy.

Edited July 7, 2019 by HBPencil

[6FG_Big_Al]

5 minutes ago, HBPencil said:

For example:
Lets say the devs do a Normandy expansion with a campaign mode that stretches several months before and after D-Day. There's some space for new LW aircaft such as the Fw190A-7 and Ju188 however some types are already in game such as Ju88, 109G-14 and the big one, the Fw190A-8 (which came with BoS and BoBP respectively). So how about those three are included in the expansion and those of us who already have them via purchasing previous expansions that introduced those aircraft get a small discount while someone new who is purchasing their first module pays full price?

I feel the benefits would be:
- A discount for some of us!
- Any one who doesn't have BoS and BoBP gets a full module's worth of aircraft.
- Doesn't cost the devs a cent as those aircraft are already developed. Heck, they make some extra profit from them by any purchase from someone who doesn't already have BoS/BoBP.
- Saves dev time.
- Could work the other way as well. Say someone purchases Normandy as their first module and decided they like it so much they want to get BoBP, then they too could get a small discount seeing as they've already paid for those aircraft that are in both expansions.
- Could also work for relevant Allied aircraft?
- Could work for other scenarios e.g. mid war Channel front or Italy.

 

It's a nice idea, but I think it's more unlikely. In fact, it's been handled in such a way that the other planes are already integrated. For example, if you look at the SP of Stalingrad using the Germans. There you can already play the Ju-88 (Moscow), Mc 202 (Moscow), Bf 110 E2 (Moscow) and Hs 129 (Kuban) without any price advantages or disadvantages. That means it would undermine the already existing system if you would start using planes twice and three times now.
So I would prefer the variant (for example in the Normandy Scenario) to use aircraft types we don't have yet (Me-410 etc.). Because the Fw 190 A8 could still be played in career mode and in multiplayer it makes no difference anyway, because it depends on the mission designers.  So I could deal with less fighters and would rather bet on other types.

[InProgress]

3 hours ago, SharpeXB said:

I don’t think that day will ever come. 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_aircraft_of_World_War_II

 

No offence but i feel like talking to a wall here. How many times do i have to explain this? If i am saying we are running out of AK rifles and you tell me that there is still tons of other weapons... I never said we will run out of planes for the love of god. I am talking about specific battles. I think i am done here, it's pointless.

 

"We may run out of planes for speficic battles in europe"

"bUt PaCiFiC1!1!!"

26 minutes ago, HBPencil said:

and as the OP pointed out the LW will run out of relevant aircraft to model.

Thank you!

[AndyJWest]

I don't think there was much of a point to this thread in the first place. Yes, if the developers get to the situation where they are having difficulty creating a 'relevant' plane set for a new battle, they may have to rethink. The decision, if and when it comes will be theirs, not ours, and I can't see how posting doom-and-gloom about it in advance is supposed to help. And they certainly aren't going to speculate about such things here, since that isn't their style.

 

If worrying about the future of the game is more important than playing it, you are probably doing something wrong.

[Missionbug]

The development team have so far used the current formulae to enable them to add all the most appealing and necessary types for the scenarios so far and it appealed to both sides of the player base to have equal numbers per side, once they are done with that and cannot use that particular formulae further they will by necessity need to add whatever is necessary for the particular module they create next, that will almost surely mean that one particular side will have the majority of types.

 

That is how it is or close the door on the franchise, do you really think that would happen?

 

If they were to remain in the existing theatres we have already most of the main aircraft already in place, or will be at the end of the current run, hopefully by then the player base will be large enough and committed enough to the series that a opportunity will exist to include a variety of other aircraft well know or otherwise to flesh out the series and allow a broader range of types good or bad that were actually involved in those conflicts.

 

As has already been mentioned, if you include the types used by all Axis nations then you get a rather eclectic bunch of characters, M.S. 406, B-239, Fokker D.XXI, Blenheim, Gladiator and so on and so forth, happy days.

 

And yes, if the Pacific is next then we add a whole new wonderful plane set and on we go.

 

All the best, Pete.

Edited July 7, 2019 by Missionbug

[SharpeXB]

8 hours ago, InProgress said:

 

 

No offence but i feel like talking to a wall here. How many times do i have to explain this? If i am saying we are running out of AK rifles and you tell me that there is still tons of other weapons... I never said we will run out of planes for the love of god. I am talking about specific battles. I think i am done here, it's pointless.

 

"We may run out of planes for speficic battles in europe"

"bUt PaCiFiC1!1!!"

Thank you!

I'm sure when this day comes 1CGS will figure something out, it's not worth worrying about now.

Rise of Flight was packaged many different ways over it's life.

[Gambit21]

12 hours ago, InProgress said:

No offence but i feel like talking to a wall here. 

 

That’s because you’re attempting to frame the discussion in a context that’s been repeatedly refuted.