What happened to stalling in this game?

[Y-29.Silky]

What ever happened to passing/redding out and stall speed?

I remember in Beta if to took too steep of a dive in a G-2 or Lagg and pulled out, you'd be blacked out for a solid 30 seconds.  I you pushed forward on your stick, you see a bunch of red. 
If you'd maneuver like an idiot, you'd end up in a flat spin, yes even in a Yak in those days. I can't remember the last time I've seen a flat spin in this game. And while the Luftwaffe pilots go bat sh*t crazy if they see a soviet use their flaps, they're not really concerned about how the are able to do unrealistic snap maneuvers that would blow the pilots eyes from their sockets or would cause a flat spin. 

 

Laugh at my aerial gunnery all you want, but it'll be hard to convince me what this 109 pilot was doing was natural flight. There were times we were under 100mph torque did not affect at all, he was still able to jerk around without losing speed, 50 seconds is a good example, idk wtf that fish tail was but if he did that in real life he would have fell like a rock.  This is type of crap is the reason I went from flying every day to once a month.

 

https://streamable.com/qpnwq

[Legioneod]

G modeling in this game is pretty poor and needs lots of work. It's one of the reasons pilots do some crazy maneuvers when in reality they would likely black out.

[JG13_opcode]

There's a lot of high-speed effects that need work.  For example you can't overspeed the prop in any aircraft as far as I'm aware.  Black/red-outs are pretty rare and I'm not sure I've ever seen anyone pull the wings off an aircraft when above corner speed.

 

Flat spins, though, do happen.  Saw one last night after I tagged a Spit with some 20 mm while he was at high AoA.

[=EXPEND=Tripwire]

And here I was expecting to see sustained negative g barrel rolls or negative g knife edge turn we put up with constantly or people moving the stick backwards and forwards porpoising like they want to snap it off.

 

I support the idea of your complaint, I honestly think you picked a really poor example to complain about and that pilot was actually flying quite tamely relatively speaking.

 

I would be happy if that's as far as virtual pilots pushed it and at least tried to make it look like there was a real human inside the plane but we face far worse too often.

Edited June 23, 2019 by =EXPEND=Tripwire

[Velxra]

I entirely agree, the pilots we currently have in the game are nearly superhuman. They can survive large caliber hits, not die from violent crashes into the ground, G forces do not adversely affect the body like they should, and briefly blacking out leaves the pilot in full control the entire time. This is an area where the game needs drastically improved. 

Edited June 23, 2019 by Geronimo553

[Ehret]

1 hour ago, JG13_opcode said:

There's a lot of high-speed effects that need work.  For example you can't overspeed the prop in any aircraft as far as I'm aware.  Black/red-outs are pretty rare and I'm not sure I've ever seen anyone pull the wings off an aircraft when above corner speed.

 

Except for the P-40 and the P-39 because of the very sluggish prop-pitch governor and unnaturally delicate engine.

 

One thing which I could do in the P-39L was the very fast turn (starting from 450mph IAS and going slower) riding on the edge just before total blackout for about 25s. It was enough not only to reverse on the following enemy but to gain marginal (but still!) gun solution...

 

I liked this trick but now it feels just wrong.

[69th_Mobile_BBQ]

190s can do perfectly vertical loops with full flaps on.  They can also pull straight up, like a cobra maneuver, and cartwheel on 360 degrees on their yaw axis into a perfectly level stable recovery behind you.  Sometimes people even fly them with flaps and gear down on purpose knowing that it's just too slow for a Yak to not over shoot but, they'll never fall.  Meanwhile, roll a Yak over onto it's back and attempt a split S.  Unless you're way too gentle to dodge any incoming fire, expect to start rolling out of control like a baby gazelle caught in a crocodile's death roll grip.  And God forbid using any Allied fighter and trying to pull any sort of instantaneous 1-time-only turn tight enough to get the leading shot on any Axis plane doing the same.  They will always get guns on you first or you will end up colliding head-on.  Pulling any tighter will make the plane flop around like a fish out of water.  Even though planes like the Yak and La5 are supposed to retain energy better in a multi-turn fight, forget it.  You will fail energy trap attempts vs. any pilot who's not a total noob.  

[[CPT]Crunch]

Training wheels, first thought crossing my mind in the 262.  Your stick forces are modeled in for you, don't ever have to worry about exceeding them in certain planes.  Auto energy fighters sim pilots association in action, once again.

[=EXPEND=Tripwire]

34 minutes ago, =AVG77=Mobile_BBQ said:

Meanwhile, roll a Yak over onto it's back and attempt a split S.  Unless you're way too gentle to dodge any incoming fire, expect to start rolling out of control like a baby gazelle caught in a crocodile's death roll grip.  And God forbid using any Allied fighter and trying to pull any sort of instantaneous 1-time-only turn tight enough to get the leading shot on any Axis plane doing the same.  They will always get guns on you first or you will end up colliding head-on.  Pulling any tighter will make the plane flop around like a fish out of water.  Even though planes like the Yak and La5 are supposed to retain energy better in a multi-turn fight, forget it.  You will fail energy trap attempts vs. any pilot who's not a total noob.  

 

What rubbish.

 

The Russian timezone pilots repeatedly show off how to make their planes fight well in a turn or low speed dogfight. Try fighting =FB=Said or Horti and see how you go.

 

Yeah this thread is going nowhere. 

[Willy__]

3 hours ago, Y-29.Silky said:

And while the Luftwaffe pilots go bat sh*t crazy if they see a soviet use their flaps, they're not really concerned about how the are able to do unrealistic snap maneuvers that would blow the pilots eyes from their sockets or would cause a flat spin. 

 

I still see it from time to time, but if I open up a topic on the forums people would call me luftwhiner.... 

[LukeFF]

4 hours ago, JG13_opcode said:

For example you can't overspeed the prop in any aircraft as far as I'm aware.

 

Yaks can overspeed their props. 

[InProgress]

You can always hear that pilots would black out during pull out in ju87 after dive. Always wondered why it never happens here. Does not matter how hard you do it, you are always fine.

[Quax]

7 minutes ago, InProgress said:

You can always hear that pilots would black out during pull out in ju87 after dive. Always wondered why it never happens here. Does not matter how hard you do it, you are always fine.

 

The problem is, the forces on the stick has been restricted, which was not the case in the beginning. You can´t do the Hartmann escape, because you can´t snaproll the 109, neither positive nor negative. But all the complainers should remember, why this restriction has been made ! I was against them, but a huge crowd demanded them. 

[InProgress]

3 minutes ago, Quax said:

 

The problem is, the forces on the stick has been restricted, which was not the case in the beginning. You can´t do the Hartmann escape, because you can´t snaproll the 109, neither positive nor negative. But all the complainers should remember, why this restriction has been made ! I was against them, but a huge crowd demanded them. 

Why could not they just do it as option? So people could simply pick whatever they want in SP and leave it up to server owners what they pick for their servers?

[Field-Ops]

On 6/11/2019 at 2:31 AM, SG2_Wolfert said:

 

Petrovich, can you say anything about the "pilot fatigue"? I mean, what are we now Terminators in the booths are sitting who can withstand as many times as possible the most abrupt turns.
Do you plan such an innovation in the near future? 
Thank.

On 6/11/2019 at 2:46 AM, AnPetrovich said:

 

Yes, this is my next task.

On 6/11/2019 at 6:31 AM, AnPetrovich said:

Generally speaking, I consider improvement, and not deterioration, the introduction of a physiological model of tolerance by the pilot for overloads. Fights should become more interesting, battle tactics will play a greater role. And, by the way, the model of fatigue does not contradict, but rather includes the feature of loss of control if the pilot was cut down on overload. So, in my opinion, concerns about the "nanyli" here are unnecessary.

Just a little tidbit of info i found off the russian forum recently 

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

Most planes autorecovery from accelerated stall , but if you remember times when you pull   to190A3 to much    it dropped 5he wing and  spin valient  towards the ground  , many pilots complain and devs changed 190 FM and  this behavior is no longer there. I think  it's to easy now especially when I watch movie like this.

 

[69th_Mobile_BBQ]

9 hours ago, =EXPEND=Tripwire said:

 

What rubbish.

 

The Russian timezone pilots repeatedly show off how to make their planes fight well in a turn or low speed dogfight. Try fighting =FB=Said or Horti and see how you go.

 

Yeah this thread is going nowhere. 

 

I guess I'm living in the wrong timezone then.  Perhaps scientific study of this "timezone buff" phenomenon is in order.  

[=EXPEND=Tripwire]

1 hour ago, =AVG77=Mobile_BBQ said:

Perhaps scientific study of this "timezone buff" phenomenon is in order.  

 

"Meanwhile, roll a Yak over onto it's back and attempt a split S.  Unless you're way too gentle to dodge any incoming fire, expect to start rolling out of control like a baby gazelle caught in a crocodile's death roll grip."

 

Or perhaps focus your study on the fact that due to lower control surface forces, you can make a Yak depart normal flight with ease due to excessive AOA. I would much rather have the ability to exceed the limits of the plane and ride the limit than never getting to that limit due to excessive stick forces which is what happens with 109s.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[69th_Mobile_BBQ]

4 hours ago, =EXPEND=Tripwire said:

 

"Meanwhile, roll a Yak over onto it's back and attempt a split S.  Unless you're way too gentle to dodge any incoming fire, expect to start rolling out of control like a baby gazelle caught in a crocodile's death roll grip."

 

Or perhaps focus your study on the fact that due to lower control surface forces, you can make a Yak depart normal flight with ease due to excessive AOA. I would much rather have the ability to exceed the limits of the plane and ride the limit than never getting to that limit due to excessive stick forces which is what happens with 109s.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Actually, now that I think about it more, I'm wondering if fuel load has anything to do with it.  It's well established that a plane like the P-47 or P-51 needed to be below a certain amount of fuel or it would be very unstable in a maneuver-intensive fight.  I've never heard such about the Yak series or others, but it's quite possible with 99% fuel sloshing around in the wing tanks.   

 

16 hours ago, =EXPEND=Tripwire said:

 

What rubbish.

 

 

You didn't need to be so harsh about your initial response though....  

[=EXPEND=13SchwarzeHand]

17 hours ago, =AVG77=Mobile_BBQ said:

Even though planes like the Yak and La5 are supposed to retain energy better in a multi-turn fight,

 

La5s historically were very bad in turnfighting and retaining energy in the sort of fight you describe, which is correctly represented in game.

 

As far as your observation regarding the Yak goes in game, I would say that it is simply not true.

Edited June 23, 2019 by =EXPEND=13BumaYe

[69th_Mobile_BBQ]

2 hours ago, =EXPEND=13BumaYe said:

 

As far as your observation regarding the Yak goes in game, I would say that it is simply not true.

 

Because I've never experienced this firsthand multiple times.....  

And yes, I've adjusted the input curves to the best possible result I can get. 

[BraveSirRobin]

23 hours ago, =AVG77=Mobile_BBQ said:

  Meanwhile, roll a Yak over onto it's back and attempt a split S.  Unless you're way too gentle to dodge any incoming fire, expect to start rolling out of control like a baby gazelle caught in a crocodile's death roll grip.  

 

I just tried this.  The problem is on your end.