Oculus Rift and Kickstarters

[HagarTheHorrible]

It's been an interesting morning in the Oculus world but if you can put that to one side for a moment I have a question.

 

Backing a project on KS doesn't usually confer an rewards if the backed project becomes extremely popular and potentially lucrative. If the Oculus Rift does make a shed load of money should the Kickstarters get some form of thank you ? Should they be entitled to first grabs or a subsidised head set or even a special edition version, what do you think ?

[DD_bongodriver]

No, backing a kickstarter does not buy you shares in the company (unless offered as a reward), kickstarter fulfilled all of it's intended purpose by getting the device into existence and giving some public awareness, it's success is more a measure of the creators vision and nothing to do with the backers.

Edited March 26, 2014 by DD_bongodriver

[HagarTheHorrible]

You're perfectly correct. I just think that it would be a nice gesture, given the ongoing success of the Oculus Rift if when a consumer version is released an acknowledgement is made to the initial backers/ believers. Normal business funding is through the issue of shares, if the company does well then the investors get a return, Kickstarter is different but that doesn't mean that the original investors /backers should be ignored, despite getting the reward that their level of funding specified. A gesture, that wouldn't even cost the developers money, might be giving the KS backers first choice or if they were feeling a little more generous a KS special edition. It doesn't have to be grand, just a thank you for helping them get that far.

[Sternjaeger]

I still think it's unethical, you start a project with crowdfunding, you raise the funds you need to crack on with it, and as soon as a giant wants to buy your idea you sell out. 

I'm not interested in the product, but if I invested in it I'd be pretty annoyed..

[DD_bongodriver]

it baffles me that people think crowdfunding is an entitlement to share in the success, the conditions of crowdfunding are clearly laid out, it's even more baffling how some of the most vocal complainants never even contributed to that crowdfunding in the first place.

[Sternjaeger]

that's not the point, Bongo. We know how crowdfunding works, I just think it's not an ethical choice to sell out something you built with the help of a community even before a final product is delivered. 

 

We probably live by different standards, you like people profiting off your money, I don't.

Edited March 27, 2014 by Sternjaeger

[DD_bongodriver]

well then you don't seem to grasp the point of money, when I pay for goods I know that the recipient is making a profit margin, all us gold badge holders here have done exactly what you just said.

[Sternjaeger]

You didn't buy a good, you financed a project, there's quite a difference. 

Edited March 27, 2014 by Sternjaeger

[DD_bongodriver]

is there?

 

Which one is the 'project'? as far as I'm concerned they are both 'products'

Edited March 27, 2014 by DD_bongodriver

[SYN_Mike77]

Curtrock over at roadtovr.com wrote this as the most likely scenario without the FB deal:

 

"Sony throws 2 Billion $$$$ at the developer community, to encourage development for their “Morpheus” HMD.

Sony swamps the market with a massive push for their hardware, leveraging their stranglehold on the gaming industry, and locks-out Oculus from the console market.

Oculus, while trying to compete on the PC platform, slowly suffocates, while devs choose to develop on the predictable PS4, which is easi er because of the uniform nature of the hardware."

 

Sounds at least plausible if not probable to me.

[Sternjaeger]

Bongo, you said I don't understand money, you don't seem to understand the basics of marketing. 

 

The idea behind crowdfunding is to create a fund for a niche project, not for something with such a huge potential, that's why I was a bit skeptical when it popped up at first, I was quite surprised that such a project, especially one on that advanced stage, needed crowdfunding. 

 

Now they haven't even finished it, and they sold out to Facebook, which has NO interest in gaming. 

 

I think that what Mike quoted is the more plausible scenario, in the end of the day the real business is in the console gaming, and the tech behind Oculus Rift will develop into a social networking contraption not too dissimilar from the concept of google glass.

 

I hope I'll be proven wrong with time, but so far the signs are all there I'm afraid..

[DD_bongodriver]

Bongo, you said I don't understand money, you don't seem to understand the basics of marketing. 

 

The idea behind crowdfunding is to create a fund for a niche project, not for something with such a huge potential,

 

Until 2 days ago VR was a niche product.

[Tektolnes]

When people signed on for KS they signed on to get a product they were interested in delivered to the marketplace. It's hardly unethical for the developer to decide that getting a large cash injection through being acquired by a massive company is a better way to go for the long-term future of the product that they're designing and developing. The marketplace is different to how it was 2 years ago. VR is now being talked about as the next big thing in gaming now that OR seems to have proofed out the concept and wowed people who tested it. For the OR devs to compete once the big boys start to come to the market they need to be a big boy themselves and the FB deal offered them that.

[FlatSpinMan]

I think its a shame that the Rift sold out to Facebook because Facebook is Facebook. Their indie-vibe and their energy were cool, but now they have money to make a better product, hopefully cheaper. Fine by me.

IMO Kickstarters are entitled to exactly what they were offered when they pledged - no more, no less. Again, I was surprisingly bummed to hear the news, but its their business. Can't say I'd turn down two billion dollars, if you guys were thinking of offering me it. I'd prefer cash though, not FB stock.

[Sternjaeger]

Until 2 days ago VR was a niche product.

 

if you think that then you're very very short sighted mate..

[DD_bongodriver]

if you think that then you're very very short sighted mate..

 

 

You are kidding right?

[Sternjaeger]

Oh well, we're only talking about a product that has use for medical, engineering, aerospace, military, education, entertainment and ultimately social networking applications right? That's SO niche.. 

[DD_bongodriver]

and that's why it took until 2012 for a geeky kid in a garage to built himself a VR headset.......

[Sternjaeger]

what's the supposed to mean? A technology needs to be invented and introduced, then it can be exploited, but seeing how things run nowadays, the exploitation begins even before the product is finished.

[Aracno]

Nice, if you want to post a comment on OculusVR blog you need to use FB only.

[DD_bongodriver]

what's the supposed to mean? A technology needs to be invented and introduced, then it can be exploited, but seeing how things run nowadays, the exploitation begins even before the product is finished.

 

We've been aware of VR since the 80's, 32 years later we suddenly decide it is the single greatest tech for all the industries you mentioned.......please!

[Sternjaeger]

mate, you know well that the adequate technology for it has become widely (and cheaply) available only recently, that's why a guy in a garage has managed to build a prototype in 2012.. 

We can virtually all go to space for a bit now, we have the technology, yet it's not exactly an economic thing to do though..

Edited March 27, 2014 by Sternjaeger

[DD_bongodriver]

Exactly! a niche, popular demand has not dictated it's development.

[Sternjaeger]

..but then you pump 2 billion dollars in it, and voila'...

[DD_bongodriver]

Let these guys explain it to you, 39minutes in, sorry kids for the grumpy middle aged guys swearing.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWtfHiQx50U

[DD_bongodriver]

..but then you pump 2 billion dollars in it, and voila'...

 

Well....yeah.......voila, now the dream is alive and the whole point of the creation of this device is brought to life, it gets a huge financial boost to put it into the hands of millions of people, it becomes as mainstream as an iGadget, works on multiple platforms, the gaming industry gets a boost as well as many others and the parasite that is Facebook gets to feed on the scraps.

[SOLIDKREATE]

I see it as just another gaming c--k tease. Sony did say they may release it for PC but "later".

Well....yeah.......voila, now the dream is alive and the whole point of the creation of this device is brought to life, it gets a huge financial boost to put it into the hands of millions of people, it becomes as mainstream as an iGadget, works on multiple platforms, the gaming industry gets a boost as well as many others and the parasite that is Facebook gets to feed on the scraps.

 

Yeah but now instead of $300 USD it will be $1500 USD. This will become just like an Apple product.

[DD_bongodriver]

I see it as just another gaming c--k tease. Sony did say they may release it for PC but "later".

 

Yeah but now instead of $300 USD it will be $1500 USD. This will become just like an Apple product.

 

No, instead of $300 it will be $200, this isn't Apple.

[Sternjaeger]

No, instead of $300 it will be $200, this isn't Apple.

 

That's pure speculation, you have no idea just like any of us, but if you look at previous examples it's never good news.

I for one find it really implausible that the finished product, considering how much money was poured into it, will retail for the promised prices..

[DD_bongodriver]

I have an idea, and it makes much more sense than a price hike.

[Sternjaeger]

go ahead, explain your idea..

[DD_bongodriver]

Facebook have actually said they don't intend to make a profit from the hardware, they want to get that from their own software and obviously facebookVR is going to depend on much advertising, they can't afford to jeopardise that by making the unit unaffordable to us, with the new purchasing power oculus have gained they can command much better deals on component costs, so far despite what has been spent on the development they are selling the developer kits for exactly the price they predicted and that has been key to their whole idea, VR for the consumer.

[FlatSpinMan]

Sternjaeger - don't take this news so personally. As for the pricing, whatsisname from OR said he hopes to be able to reduce the price now that FB are backing it.

[Sternjaeger]

Guys, I'm not taking it personally, I just find the good faith of some of you quite surprising..

[DD_bongodriver]

and why is that? there's a lot of good faith in this forum.

[HagarTheHorrible]

"The other story here is what the acquisition might mean for Kickstarter, which is where Oculus Rift got its original funding and dedicated fanbase. Kickstarter is supposed to be about hip indie projects that The Man won't fund, so if they are eventually sold to The Man after all, that is going to leave a sour taste and perhaps even exert a chilling effect on future projects. With this deal, Kickstarter might have lost its anti-corporate innocence.

 

Meanwhile, there seems to be an obvious question of economic justice here. The original Kickstarter backers of Oculus Rift might not have been explicitly granted shares in the company, but the company wouldn't exist without their initial contribution. About 10,000 people gave Oculus $2.5m between them. I for one am struggling to think of a good reason why each of them shouldn't get a proportional share of that $2bn sale."

 

This was posted over at the Guardian. While I don't agree totally, he certainly has a point. As I suggest, a easy way out might just be to offer a benefit to the Kickstarters, it doesn't even need to cost the company money.

[DD_bongodriver]

You realise the intent of the kickstarter was simply to build a small production run of the DK1 to sell to developers right? nobody was ever mislead or promised anything that has been taken away from them.

 

We're here raising money on Kickstarter to build development kits of the Rift, so we can get them into the hands of developers faster. Kickstarter has proven to be an amazing platform for accelerating big and small ideas alike. We hope you share our excitement about virtual reality, the Rift, and the future of gaming.  

 

 

in fact the resounding success of that KS campaign made this outcome an absolute inevitability, sure everybody was surprised it was Facebook but in retrospect it begins to make sense.

[Bearcat]

If the bank had loaned them the cash should the bank have expected a bigger payout, over and above the terms of the loan?

 

Very good point. As long as the agreed terms of the KS were met there is no issue.

[skullbiscuit]

Facebook have actually said they don't intend to make a profit from the hardware, they want to get that from their own software and obviously facebookVR is going to depend on much advertising, they can't afford to jeopardise that by making the unit unaffordable to us, with the new purchasing power oculus have gained they can command much better deals on component costs, so far despite what has been spent on the development they are selling the developer kits for exactly the price they predicted and that has been key to their whole idea, VR for the consumer.

 

Bingo!  The price will be lower because the hardware is subsidized by advertisers (you may not get pop ups, but they will be looking over your shoulder while you are in the VR)

 

Should be no surprises here, subsidized services and hardware is the biz model that built Google.  That is the essence of Web 2.0.

 

And in this biz model with subsidized hardware, the "product" is not the hardware itself.....it is you!...being delivered to the marketers and other data collectors.

[DD_bongodriver]

But we have always been the product because of the cash in our pocket, I don't see the problem.