Attacker fire group 3 is necessary

[=GW=seaflanker819]

hs129 and 110g2 have variants with three three different guns, and fire group 1 and 2 can only separate machine gun and 20mm cannons, we have to fire 30 or 37mm gun with 20mm when attacking tanks, waste 20mm ammo and interfere pilots judgement about whether AT gun hit target. Theres a group 3 button appear though its for wwi plane, so would you please give attackers a fire group 3 button? In my opinion planes has every right to control every kind of guns.

[WheelwrightPL]

I disagree because it would overcomplicate things. 

Logically I think there should be only two fire groups: one for air-to-air guns and the other for air-to-ground guns, so from that point of view the current HS129 setup makes no sense.

Also three fire groups would be more suitable for complex and ahistorical A-10 replica multi-button joysticks (thus neglecting owners of more era-faithful WW2-style KG12 joysticks like me).

[Yogiflight]

I would like to have the thumb button for the Hs129 for changing between the three weapons and firing them with the trigger, as it would be the version, the nearest to how it worked IRL. But that is just my personal preference.

For the Bf110 G2, when loaded with 3.7cm gun, there were no 20mm guns on board, as the ammunition for the 3.7 was stored at the postion where the 20 mm were located.

[LukeFF]

1 hour ago, 8./JG5_seaflanker819 said:

In my opinion planes has every right to control every kind of guns.

 

Except that's not how those particular planes were wired. 

[danielprates]

Historically was that a thing? I think most, if not all aircraft of the period had only a 'weapons group one' button, and a 'weapons group two' button. There would be some variation as to what they did but I can't remember ever seying more than that, rockets and bombs excluded of course.

 

What you would see is oddities here and there, like the zero's cannons being fired from the throttle, but three buttons .....

Edited May 29, 2019 by danielprates

[LukeFF]

1 minute ago, danielprates said:

Historically was that a thing?

 

It wasn't a thing, no. 

[Lusekofte]

Problem with cfs is that virtual pilots do not regard less than 10 armored vehicles destroyed alone as a success. While irl one was ,  or just getting back

[Warpig]

Is there a current plane that uses Weapon group 3? I looked through the WWI planes and cannot find one that has 3 groups equipped. Also, does it make sense to just group Weapon group 3 with Weapon group 2?

[Velxra]

It would be nice if the HS129 B-2 30mm or 37mm did not fire at the same time as the 20mm weapons. So ammo is not needlessly wasted on targets for no effect. But if we can find somewhere that this was how the weapons of the HS129 were historically configured then I have no contest. The current configuration for the HS129 weapons does seem odd that it cannot fire the 30mm or 37mm independently like all/most of the other planes in game. 

I have wondered the same question as the OP and hopefully we can find a solid answer!

[InProgress]

 

Tried to find some info about it but it's not easy ? maybe if someone speak german so he can find and read some official instructions.

Hard to tell on that video but that slow rate of fire feels like you could seperate belly gun from all others. But i think it was 75mm gun fireing.

 

There is also video showing it on the ground in some testing. Only one gun fires so i guess in real life you were able to shoot that main gun without 20mm.

 

On 5/30/2019 at 1:03 AM, LuseKofte said:

Problem with cfs is that virtual pilots do not regard less than 10 armored vehicles destroyed alone as a success. While irl one was ,  or just getting back

I think that's the multiplayer problem where you need to kill tons of stuff. Someone dropping 1000kg bomb on factory will get more "points" than someone who kills t34 in motion with perfect dive attack. After that he is done, gets 1 point while ju88 guy gets 20 points. And you need to kill tons of stuff to get the objective and win. MP is kind of a race, kill as many stuff as fast as possible. Then you will get this take off from the spawn, not worth coming back to the base, grab as biggest bombs as possible. Gameplay itself leads to this problem.

While in SP it does not really matter if you killed 1 tank or 100. You fly combat mission, did your job, contributed and it's ok

Edited June 8, 2019 by InProgress

[SCG_OpticFlow]

On 5/29/2019 at 10:55 PM, LukeFF said:

 

Except that's not how those particular planes were wired. 

 

Except that the particular planes had separate circuit breakers for every weapon which would allow to disable them by flipping the switch. Those are not implemented in the game.

[Matt]

3 hours ago, SCG_OpticFlow said:

 

Except that the particular planes had separate circuit breakers for every weapon which would allow to disable them by flipping the switch. Those are not implemented in the game.

No they don't. Both the Bf 110 G-2 and the Hs 129 have one circuit breaker for all guns.

 

In the Bf 110 G-2 you cannot use both 37mm and 20mm cannons, so i don't see where the problem is. You have two groups, one for the MG 17 and one for the BK 37. Just how it should be.

 

For the Hs 129 the MK 101/103 should be on one group and the MG 151 + MG 17 on the other. It was also not possible to fire the MG 17 separately from the MG 151 when the MK 101/103 was installed. Not sure why that has not been implemented yet.  Currently the MG 17 fire together with the MK and that just makes no sense. It's the main reason why i don't fly the plane.

Edited June 8, 2019 by Matt

[LukeFF]

4 hours ago, Warpig said:

Is there a current plane that uses Weapon group 3?

 

The Sopwith Dolphin

[SCG_OpticFlow]

4 hours ago, Matt said:

No they don't. Both the Bf 110 G-2 and the Hs 129 have one circuit breaker for all guns.

 

In the Bf 110 G-2 you cannot use both 37mm and 20mm cannons, so i don't see where the problem is. You have two groups, one for the MG 17 and one for the BK 37. Just how it should be.

 

For the Hs 129 the MK 101/103 should be on one group and the MG 151 + MG 17 on the other. It was also not possible to fire the MG 17 separately from the MG 151 when the MK 101/103 was installed. Not sure why that has not been implemented yet.  Currently the MG 17 fire together with the MK and that just makes no sense. It's the main reason why i don't fly the plane.

 

I meant those switches on the 110 (and similar on the FW-190):

 

 

There are also circuit breaker switches on the SZKK / SKK:

 

 

About the Hs 129, the MK-103 manual states that it's breaker is on the SZKK but I couldn't find info about the other weapons. There are 2 switches on the Hs-129's SZKK-4 though, like on the FW-190.

 

 

On the SZKK-4, the upper switch should have the standard On/Off pictogram while the second one has a space for a label. See for example https://www.deutscheluftwaffe.de/fl-47319-schalt-zaehl-kontrollkasten-szkk-4-1944  The lower switch might be used to separate two weapons grouped together, but whether that happened on the Hs-129, I don't know.

 

Edited June 8, 2019 by SCG_OpticFlow