AI and common sense in career mode

[apollon01]

Hi all and thanks the Devs for an awsome product! (got BoS and BoM; so far no additional content)

 

Recently I pulled the trigger and dived into the franchise with my (almost) shiny new Odyssey+. Still vividly recalling being nervous during my first career missions and instinctively ducking into my cockpit when the tracers surprised me from behind after having dropped some bombs on a convoy. Well done. One day I need to ask my wife what she thinks looking at me turning left and right in front of the screen with the HMD on

 

Anyway... to the point:

 

I am into single player career. I like the concept I have to say. However, quite early I have noticed there is something fishy with the AI enemy planes. After one dogfight mission, I was ordered back to base so I turned away from the fight... to see I was being chased by one 109. That was OK. I pressed on the treetops and expected it to disengage any time and to come back on "its" side of the map. That did not happen however. Then I spotted more 109s chasing the rest of our fleet on the way back to our base (some 50km away)... basically then to be shot down by our ground anti-aircraft. Well, honestly...

 

I googled right after and found out such a behaviour was unfortunatelly a feature rather than an exception.

 

I understand that AI programming is no easy job. However, would it be possible at least in the first step to teach the AI some common sense like:

- not intercepting when obviously not being able to make it back to the base due to lack of fuel

- not intercepting deep into enemy territory.

 

I am just thinking loud now without knowing the tech details. Though I think such a behaviour would not be far from real life decision making.

 

Any thoughts appreciated.

Thank you.

Regards,

 

Milan

[Semor76]

Shifting to the complaints section in  3....2...1..

 

By the way, welcome to the forums Milan ?

[dburne]

They are better in this regard than they used to be, but still at times we get that behavior.

 

[beresford]

I was going to raise a thread about this. Often my best tactic is to fly back to my home airfield pursued by the entire enemy flight and leave my AI colleagues to attack the target in peace.

 

My AI colleagues won't help me even if I lead enemy aircraft past their noses, and there is no 'help' radio message available unless you are the wing leader. Furthermore the enemy AI KNOW that I will get no help and happily present their sixes to my wingmen. Occasionally it is possible to get help from friendly patrols, though there is no CAP at your own airfield and nobody scrambles to deal with these enemy aircraft chasing me back and forth at low level.

[Feathered_IV]

1 hour ago, beresford said:

though there is no CAP at your own airfield and nobody scrambles to deal with these enemy aircraft chasing me back and forth at low level.

 

This might be possible with more detailed career mission templates, but it is unlikely that the devs will revisit them now for anything other than bug fixes.  Perhaps modders who are familiar with the mission builder could access the .group files for the career which are stored in the SCG.gtp package?

[TheOldCrow]

I recently started a Moscow career in a p-40e and I've only ever had a.i. 109's chase me while my plane was injured. If my flight came out on top of the dogfight they usually turn tail and head back deep into their own lines.

[Luftschiff]

I've won a 6 v 1 in a macchi career against I-16's by diving steeply and heading for home. Three of them broke their control surfaces following the dive and the other three chased me until their fuel ran out and they crashed. The devs have said that AI fixes are forthcoming. Though we know not of what kind, I think we can safely assume that they are aware of these issues.

[JG27_Steini]

I think this AI feature is a pretty easy one. You only have to add an level of "panic" to each AI pilot. Several situations raise/lower this level and will force to AI to behave in (allready) existing manner. You dont need a high level of intelligence here. 

[blitze]

I find the chase to base scenario tends to vary pending on which career is being flown.  Stalingrad - VVS career - you will have 109's chase you but their bases are fairly close at certain points of the career.  Same for Moscow at certain times of the career and then, I have been surprised by VVS in Kuban when flying my 190 deep behind my lines but you have to get accustomed to that.  VVS planes tend to carry larger fuel loads as well.

 

For me though I have had some fun recently on cover missions.  I will be covering an asset in Stalingrad to have some bombers and escort do a run on the target.  They get intercepted successfully and I think whew, that was that only to find another wave comes at the target.  It is teaching me not to wast too much ammo on the 1st waves escort and expect more than 1 attempt.  My last cover mission had A20's do a run with La5 cover and then after that was beaten back - Il2's showed up and did a run on the target.

 

Very impressive and quite a challenge.  Starting tho think I have to be frugal with ammo in a 109 with outboards mounted as much as I have to be frugal with ammo full stop in most VVS native aircraft.?

 

Anyway - keep at it and see how you go with your career.  Yes there will be some silly times but then there are times where it is a gem, especially if labels are turned off in VR and you rely on radio calls and spotters.

[Semor76]

....aaand we´re in the forums trash bin again. ?

 

This is so hopeless ^^

See ya next week when the next new guy drops in and write the exact same stuff.

 

 

Edited May 27, 2019 by Semor76

[LukeFF]

5 minutes ago, Semor76 said:

....aaand we´re in the forums trash bin again. ?

 

This is so hopeless ^^

See ya next week when the next new guy drops in and write the exact same stuff.

 

Well, it's a complaint about something in the game, so it's in the right spot.

Edited May 27, 2019 by LukeFF

[blitze]

Merry - Go - Round ?

[Frost*]

On 5/27/2019 at 7:00 PM, Semor76 said:

....aaand we´re in the forums trash bin again. ?

 

This is so hopeless ^^

See ya next week when the next new guy drops in and write the exact same stuff.

 

 

Typical...the guy with 500+ posts knocking the new guy that makes a legitimate complaint!

 

I have a complaint too...wtf is the score with the AI just flying around in circles as soon as you engage them? Whilst I'm fairly new to BOS I have been in to flight sims for as many of my 60 years can remember but rarely have I seen such abysmal dogfighting AI as I have in this game (or is it sim?) : /. 

 

Cue stampede of fanbois defending their beloved! : )

 

Honestly though...is it really that bad all of the time?

Edited May 30, 2019 by ChocsAway

[Semor76]

36 minutes ago, ChocsAway said:

Typical...the guy with 500+ posts knocking the new guy that makes a legitimate complaint!

 

I have a complaint too...wtf is the score with the AI just flying around in circles as soon as you engage them? Whilst I'm fairly new to BOS I have been in to flight sims for as many of my 60 years can remember but rarely have I seen such abysmal dogfighting AI as I have in this game (or is it sim?) : /. 

 

Cue stampede of fanbois defending their beloved! : )

 

Honestly though...is it really that bad all of the time?

LooL...I truly think you completely misunderstand my post.

 

Do you know the concept of irony?  If you label my as the "guy with 500+ posts" you should better read some of previous posts regarding the AI development and the current situation for us Single players.

 

I will tell you a little secret: It´s the opposite of beeing a "fanboi"  ?

 

Peace.

[Frost*]

7 hours ago, Semor76 said:

LooL...I truly think you completely misunderstand my post.

 

Do you know the concept of irony?  If you label my as the "guy with 500+ posts" you should better read some of previous posts regarding the AI development and the current situation for us Single players.

 

I will tell you a little secret: It´s the opposite of beeing a "fanboi"  ?

 

Peace.

 

Apologies if I misunderstood and for the fanbois accusation : )

 

There's so much to like about BOS and I'm tempted to pick up Bodenplatte as well just on the strength of what I do like and the fact that I'll be picking up the Oculus Rift S soon. 

 

I do find it odd that probably the most important aspect of the sim is fundamentally flawed to the point where I have quit in frustration several times recently. If they could improve it then I think they'd be on to something very special indeed. I'm sure the subject of AI has been done to death on the forum but not without good reason in my opinion and I can only hope the devs give it some well deserved attention but as it is it seems the single player side is  purely a 'practice' mode for multiplayer.

 

Have fun!

Edited May 30, 2019 by ChocsAway

[Guest deleted@32648]

 

23 hours ago, ChocsAway said:

 

 

but as it is it seems the single player side is  purely a 'practice' mode for multiplayer.

 

 

Spot on.

 

It's worth giving MP a go if you can, and can fit in to the 'community'. You can get your money's worth of entertainment that way.

 

But, alas, an engaging SP experience is still lacking.

[Cow_Art]

On 5/31/2019 at 4:19 PM, Guest deleted@32648 said:

 

 

Spot on.

 

It's worth giving MP a go if you can, and can fit in to the 'community'. You can get your money's worth of entertainment that way.

 

But, alas, an engaging SP experience is still lacking.

 

I think the career mode has a lot of potential and in general I enjoy it. For not-so-experienced players like me its a good way to practice. Also I think its a great way to immerse myself in the illusion of being a WWII pilot.

Unfortunately the problem mentioned by the OP is currently one of my main gripes with career mode (that's why I found this thread, I was about to start a new one.. ).

I could totally live with being chased back to my home airfield by a hotshot AI who is hell-bent on killing me, if that only happened every once in a while. But currently this happens to me in almost every career mission (unless I manage to kill all the AI fighters before I head home). Usually some enemy fighters chase me back to my own airfield. Then they continue to completely focus on me while I drag them around in circles..  until my allied AAA has shot them all down.

Dear Devs: It would be great if the AI could be made to break off their chase when they realize that it's hopeless. Or at least once I have made it home and they come under fire from the AAA. I understand development resources are limited and its probably not a big deal for the better pilots and the multiplayer focused community. But for players like me it breaks immersion and it's a real annoyance that takes some of the enjoyment out of an otherwise awesome flight sim.

 

Edited October 10, 2019 by Cow_Art