If no STEAM, what aquisition model?

[VeryOldMan]

I am a bit worried on the no  STEAM support.   Some people like me, live in countries that will never receive  boxes of games that are a niche market as this. Steam  solved all  my previous problems of buying games,  problem on paying methods, some companies not acceptign to sell to south america etc...

 

 

So  is there any info on how  we will be able to buy the game? Or  we will have to  face  another game that   forgets there is a world south of equator? (and before anyone  say that  its inevitable that small economies  and poor countries  get ignored, I live in Brazil and our economy is larger  than UK's!)

 

 

Just worried that the no STEAM support might  hurt much more than anticipated. 

[FlatSpinMan]

RoF already has a digital download method so I'd imagine something like that'd be the way this will go for most players. 

[VeryOldMan]

RoF already has a digital download method so I'd imagine something like that'd be the way this will go for most players. 

Yes, but do they accept  payments  worldwide?   I suffered a lot to buy Il2 1946 for example.  All the download based stores did not accepted credit cards from south america.  I had to ask some guy at the forums to buy the game in a box and send to me to get the hands on the game, because the distribution methods ignored a whoel continent.  Steam   on other hand has a massive presence that made it get hold of almost 100% of market share here, basically because only they  respect us as  costumers that  can  pay for products.

 

I hope  they manage to do it right even without steam, I just do not want to be kept away from this because of this decision.

[Rama]

Yes, but do they accept  payments  worldwide?

Yes, they do. You can pay with Paypal (I'm not sure, but I think that Paypal is usable worldwide).

[VeryOldMan]

Yes, they do. You can pay with Paypal (I'm not sure, but I think that Paypal is usable worldwide).

 

Nope its not.  Paypal in Brazil can only be used to buy from Brazilian stores. And its same in several countries

 

Trying to find  some sim fans here that might have tried RoF to  find out if their system allow us in....  

 

But some companies managed to implement decent  systems that allow  us in, World of Tanks and Eve online are 2 examples. But  I am just a bit preemptively worried because several others  have failed to do so.

[Rama]

Ok,

They do accept PayPal, VISA, Mastercard and AMEX....  Normally, you should find something working for you.

 

Edit: I just checked on the Brazillian PayPal Website, they say you can use it for internationnal purchases.  And I have a workmate that sometimes send money to his brazillian familly via PayPal... so it's not as restricted as you seems to say.

Edited February 5, 2013 by Rama

[VeryOldMan]

Ok,

They do accept PayPal, VISA, Mastercard and AMEX....  Normally, you should find something working for you.

 

Edit: I just checked on the Brazillian PayPal Website, they say you can use it for internationnal purchases.  And I have a workmate that sometimes send money to his brazillian familly via PayPal... so it's not as restricted as you seems to say.

 

 

It can be used for international shipments. But not internet buying. Its just plain retarded, and I  had problems with it several times. This is taken from their FAQ  "

 

"????

[Rama]

Wathever, you can still Visa, Mastercard or AMEX directly.
 

Edited February 6, 2013 by Rama

[VeryOldMan]

Wathever, you can still Visa, Mastercard or AMEX directly.

Don't you have access to them in Brazil?

I remember using mines in Rio or San Paolo, in stores or cash machines. So I suppose they are accessible also to Brazilians. No?

If the site does not limit them To only credit cards from europe and US then yes. That is why  I started this. A lot of foreign sites (foreign to US, home for most of you)  simply deny access to our credit cards.  I will not cite names here because I do not know if would be against forum rules, but other game purchasing online sites block us. That included IL2 1946 when it was released,  ALL  sites that sold it did not accept credit cards registered under a brazilian address. Its not an imaginary problem, I passed for it  on this exact series and since in past the publisher of Il2 series failed to address that, I raise this point preemptively.

 

Just  want to raise the issue, If you are not going to support STEAM(That takes care of this for you) then at least , please  do not be an arrogant publisher that deliberately cut whole countries  out for preconception issues by blocking VISA cards from south america.. We have money... and on current world crisis  more money than a lot of  Europe populations do.. so please do not  push us out as a market as past Il2 publisher did.

[Rama]

Well, I don't know much about bank stuff, but something I'm almost sure of is that web sites by themthelves don't block credit cards. Web sites use bank services when payment are proccessed. If a credit card is blocked, it's a bank policy, not a publisher or web site policy.

I have seen no complains about blocked credit cars on RoF official web site since long time... so it's most probably not an issue. you can even test it if you have a few dollars to spend (for example, you can download and register the RoF free game and purchase a Spad XIII Field mod for 2.5$).

 

I think everybody knows there's a lot of potential public in South America or Asia for Games in general including Flight Sims. I don't think 777 is arrogant, and I'm sure they will not spit on your money.

[VeryOldMan]

Well, I don't know much about bank stuff, but something I'm almost sure of is that web sites by themthelves don't block credit cards. Web sites use bank services when payment are proccessed. If a credit card is blocked, it's a bank policy, not a publisher or web site policy.

I have seen no complains about blocked credit cars on RoF official web site since long time... so it's most probably not an issue. you can even test it if you have a few dollars to spend (for example, you can download and register the RoF free game and purchase a Spad XIII Field mod for 2.5$).

 

I think everybody knows there's a lot of potential public in South America or Asia for Games in general including Flight Sims. I don't think 777 is arrogant, and I'm sure they will not spit on your money.

the resting Idea is a good one. Will download the client later and test it with something cheap. If it fails then I can  write the nerd raging email  to them

[hiro]

Once its released; maybe see if the game retailers in Brazil will carry it (boxed versions). I'm sure if enough people keep asking them, they should get the game.

 

Also Amazon.com opened up down in Brazil, and maybe by 2014 will be fully operational (battle station*) and you can get the game through there. 

 

If the worst case scenario the game is truly unavailable; I'm sure you could wire the cost of the game to some trusty people here, they could order the game for you and ship it down there or set up your account so all you need to do is log in and have working internet and d/l it.

 

 

*if you don't know it, google it

-----

 

 

I remember a friend mentioned Brazil financial institution (banks) issued cards that had a visa logo and functioned as a credit card were blocked at online retailers. 

 

She said it was due to the (Brazil's) credit rating which she said in 2011 had a low medium grade, but she said once she got married (to my other friend US citizen) she wouldn't have to bother with it. Hopefully the country's credit rating has gone up since then. 

 

I'm wondering if VeryOM could get a Visa not attached to a brazil bank. 

 

 

The frustration of having your finances bricked housed is close to me. It reminds me of my first credit card, a discover card. Some places didn't take it. In fact alot of places didn't. ANd when the internet purchasing was taking off, alot of the sites had a Y2K thing, in that they only had room to take the 16 number of VISA or Mastercard, and error checking for those cards and not the other CC's. 

 

 

And all my pals with Visa's and Mastercards were using them like dogs drink water. So I qualify for AMEX. Like the MasterCard or Visa commercials say, 'they don't take American Express.' More places take AMEX than Discover, but AMEX is blocked too (AMEX and DIscover charger higher rates for usage for merchants than Mastercard or VIsa. 

So I'm off the 'boutique' credit cards :D 

 

 

Supposedly by 2015 or 2020 the antitrust laws will kick in and all legit CC will be accepted.

 

 

But this issue is not a 777 or 1C issue, it seems more of a banking / financial institution issue (already mentioned by other posters). 

 

I remember in Modern Warfare 2 they had some Brazilian servers going and gamers there reported not having issues in getting it (but then that was for PS3). 

Edited February 10, 2013 by hiro

[VeryOldMan]

They funny thing is.. Brazil Economy is nowadays stronger than any european economy bar Germany, we are the dam 6th largest economy in the world  and besides china the only country with financial fundations strong enough that  it did not suffer from the current crisis that started in 2008. But even so  some treat us as if we were an extremely poor and disorganized country. 

 

As I said in another post of mine, stupid preconceptions. Some companies do accept our money, but there are a few that are extremely annoying (that included a certain  past publisher of this series).

 

As far as  boxed game, no chance, people here  just stopped completely buying boxed versions and went all for steam, because the publishers would take too long to translate the box and manual and a new game would arrive 10 months late here.  Currently steam controls 99% of the  market here.

[wtornado]

And if we want the DVD of the game then what they won't make any?

 

ROF is still available on DVD.

http://www.amazon.ca/Rise-Flight-First-Great-Cross/dp/B003Q65ZLO

 

I like having my original DVD and I am in Canada like many others I am sure.

 

Its nice holding some you paid your hard earned money in your hands.

[FuriousMeow]

I have the original DVD for RoF. I never use it, I can't. It's quicker for me to download the full version rather than the 30+ updates that total several GB.

[wtornado]

I would buy the game at the get go and download the patches as they are released.

 

Did it with IL-2 for over a decade.

 

I don't worry about patches with a 15 MB line I get them quite fast when i need them.

[FuriousMeow]

Well RoF works differently, as will BoS. The patches are downloaded and applied through an incorporated updater - not a separate patch file you can download and save somewhere from their website. As a matter of fact, making a backup of your entire installation is the way to do it. Everyone has two copies. One they play from and one that is the previous update in case the latest update screws something up.

 

And like I said, the DVD is worthless now. There are several GB of patches to apply, it's quicker to download the whole game.

Edited September 7, 2013 by FuriousMeow

[wtornado]

Once you have lived through years and years of AAA,UP,and and HSFX patches changes and upgrades

backing up in double plus on an external drive 5 versions of IL-2 and its mods oh and I still use my IL-2 1946

DVD when I install a new OS or I lose a hard drive.

 

I wonder how many still do it with the IL-2 1946 DVD old school.

 

Machines are so fast today compared to 10 years ago it is just and excuse I guess and having a beer

doing it all these years.

[FuriousMeow]

The difference is that you can't download Il-2 1946 from a repository and the updates are still there - but the frequency and size are much less. 1946's updates from the patch team will end sooner than later.

 

On the other side of the coin we have BoS and if it's a success, we'll see more planes. More theaters. More everything amazing, and that will be an update or download. Eventually the original data storing material you purchased will be so out of date it will be faster to download the entire installation again from the web through a safe torrent and then update it the few patches it needs.

 

Believe me, I tried installing from DVD and subsequently updating RoF. Last year. It took an hour. It wasn't done, I stopped and downloaded the most recent full version and then updated that. It took 37 minutes. I have FiOS, that's a 24MB up and 30MB down connection.

Edited September 8, 2013 by FuriousMeow

[Trooper117]

Its pretty easy to set up IL2 1946 and then patch it up to current standard. There are countless sites online that give you simple and detailed instructions on how to do it, plus they usually have all the links for the patches etc if you don't already have them on your hard drive.

I got back into IL2 1946 a few months ago and just googled for the info, and had it patched and running in no time.

Using a modded version like HSFX for instance is very easy no to set up, and can be returned to the original standard in no time with a click of a button using JSGME.. 

This stuff isn't rocket science,  and its very easy to install complete mod packages.

 

Plus, it's important to remember to keep a copy on your hard drive/external hard drive, that will simply work without having to be re-installed again at a later date... I had forgotten about that.

I would not have had to go through the re-installation process again

Edited September 8, 2013 by Trooper117

[Sturm_]

I'm from Uruguay, and never had a problem with the RoF store. International Mastercard used. The RoF store doesn´t limit credit cards by country I guess. If it is declined, it could be because of internal politics (I know how dumb they can be).

[TheBlackPenguin]

Did we get an affirmative that there would be no Steam support?

[76SQN-FatherTed]

RoF is now on Steam, so I'm guessing BoS will be too

[Zak]

RoF is now on Steam, so I'm guessing BoS will be too

We'll learn from ROF experience and consider putting IL2BOS on Steam. Will it be the same system as with ROF or a completely Steam-bound release - it's still to be decided.

[theOden]

.. or a completely Steam-bound release - it's still to be decided.

 

Please let me know as soon as such a decision is set so I can revoke my pre-order.

[Quax]

We'll learn from ROF experience and consider putting IL2BOS on Steam. Will it be the same system as with ROF or a completely Steam-bound release - it's still to be decided.

 

I preordered the premium edition already !   And there was no information of a necessity to have steam to run it.

 

Steam will never be on my PC again.

[Zak]

Please let me know as soon as such a decision is set so I can revoke my pre-order.

Sure! You can count on me. However I'm pretty sure such decision is not gonna happen and you'll stay with us.

[VeryOldMan]

I preordered the premium edition already !   And there was no information of a necessity to have steam to run it.

 

Steam will never be on my PC again.

Being  sold on steam  has nothign to do with  using  Steam as copy protection.

 

 

Funny that I basically do not use Any game that uses any OTHER  protection mode other  then steam, sicne steam was the only one that never gave me problems.

[Trooper117]

Not something that you think about when the time for pre-order arrived, and many of us were glad to order the game and were full of excitement, but have to say, in hindsight, the format for release is something that should have been made clear, as we know that many people don't like steam, and it would be a silly mistake by the dev team to have people revoking sales as the time for release gets closer.

[VeryOldMan]

Not something that you think about when the time for pre-order arrived, and many of us were glad to order the game and were full of excitement, but have to say, in hindsight, the format for release is something that should have been made clear, as we know that many people don't like steam, and it would be a silly mistake by the dev team to have people revoking sales as the time for release gets closer.

 

 

It's hard, because a lot of people  also  have STEAM or nothing mindset. And   most of the companies tha t resisted  STEAM for years and alter experimented STEAM  simply  abandoned completely the   other models (like  paradox with Crusader Kings II). Steam    usually makes more for sales than ANYTHING on game industry,

 

I am still  trying to get what people do not like in steam ,specially in a game that you will   have to stay logged in to play anyway (so the  need internet thing is not a real issue).

 

I used to not liek steam, but nowadays even my DayZ is installed trough steam.

[Quax]

I understand why youths like steam. It surely helps when you have a hundred games installed. But i am too old for that and RoF and DCS is all i have installed. If i have 30 mins a week for that hobby between job and family i am happy. No way i have the time to mess with steam - i tried it with CloD - both sucked. 

[FuriousMeow]

I've never had an issue with Steam. I only use it for a few games, like VeryOldMan DayZ (well ArmaII) is installed through Steam. Incidentally, although installed through Steam - I never run Steam. I can play DayZ without Steam ever being run.

[VeryOldMan]

I understand why youths like steam. It surely helps when you have a hundred games installed. But i am too old for that and RoF and DCS is all i have installed. If i have 30 mins a week for that hobby between job and family i am happy. No way i have the time to mess with steam - i tried it with CloD - both sucked. 

 

 

Funny  you call me youth   Also, the purpose of steam is exaclty not havign to mess with anything! Makes   keepign  game up to date   so much easier.   Installation also easier, no hassle with CDs etc.

[Zmaj76]

Funny  you call me youth   Also, the purpose of steam is exaclty not havign to mess with anything! Makes   keepign  game up to date   so much easier.   Installation also easier, no hassle with CDs etc.

Steam is cool because it makes things easier for the sake of installing and updateing but the con is that you cant sell individual games if you wish..in fact you cant sell the steam acc with all games at all..its illegal....I wonder why? If I bought them all...

Edited September 10, 2013 by Tvrdi

[VeryOldMan]

Technically you cannot sell the  games in disc as well.  If you read the  end user agreement,  the absolute majority of them forbids you of doing so.

[Panzerlang]

Technically you cannot sell the  games in disc as well.  If you read the  end user agreement,  the absolute majority of them forbids you of doing so.

 

But as that's actually an illegal condition it's perfectly ok to go ahead and sell a disc anyway.

[VeryOldMan]

But as that's actually an illegal condition it's perfectly ok to go ahead and sell a disc anyway.

Depend on the country, here  you cannot do it. In fact the one that buys it will  have an illegal copy, same as piracy.  Obviously not enforced on games,  but enfgorced a lot on more expensive software .

[Matt]

This selling games wouldn't really work with the Steam system.

 

There are often extreme discounts during sales. Just yesterday, there was 70% off for DCS modules. People would buy those and sell them shortly after the sale for nearly regular price and make a lot of profit.

 

I can't think of a game that i would be willing to sell, prices fall that quickly nowadays, you can sometimes buy games for 10% of the release price just after a few months. All that fuzz for 4 EUR or whatever is barely worth my freetime (and god forbid someone makes a great mod for that game after years and i have to buy it again, see Il-2 in my case...).

 

I don't want to get involved in this hardcore pro-Steam / anti-Steam borderline, i never had problems with any download software or DRM, with the exception of Uplay (i guess we can rule that out for BoS ). So i don't care if they would use Steam or their RoF-type of DRM or both, but i would be very surprised if they wouldn't atleast use Steam as an alternative, now that RoF is already up there (which wasn't too easy, if i read recent posts correctly). But i hope they atleast use the RoF-style aswell, so that we don't lose any potential customers.

Edited September 10, 2013 by hq_Matt

[Crow]

I understand why youths like steam. It surely helps when you have a hundred games installed. But i am too old for that and RoF and DCS is all i have installed. If i have 30 mins a week for that hobby between job and family i am happy. No way i have the time to mess with steam - i tried it with CloD - both sucked. 

"Mess with Steam?" Exactly what did you have to do? My entire experience with 99% of the games I own on Steam is:

 

1) Press installation button.

 

2) Wait.

 

3) Double click to play.

 

What else did you have to do? I didn't change any parameters in Steam when I ran CloD. All of the settings I had to dick around with were in the game itself.

 

The reality is it is actually physically faster than installing something on a disk. There is no driving to the store, no waiting at the register, no opening the box, no messing with CDs and CD drives. If you have a solid internet connection you just D/L and go. You can do a bajillion other things while you're waiting on the download unlike a trip to the store. On top of that, you save gas money and you don't feed the big, bad retail outlets that scam all of us for obscene profits. Additionally, your product is protected against loss (if your disk is lost or burns up in a fire you buy a new copy, not so with Steam) completely free of charge. I have a really hard time seeing the downside. Steam is an incredible value and incredibly quick and easy to use. And I didn't even talk about the sales...

Edited September 10, 2013 by Crow

[Quax]

First thing was, it did install Clod into drive C:    It just didn´t ask me like any other installation routine would have done (hours wasted to get it somewhere else). When i finally thought i could start flying, i pressed the button:Now it didnt find its own server. ok - i waited and tried again later.

Next time it started updating itself - remember i have only 30 mins ! - then it had to update the game ... etc  etc  (BTW  Is there a way to shut off all messages and advertisments and social network stuff etc: ?)

 

With RoF i can fly offline if i dont have the time to update (and in the rare occasions where the RoF server is down).  And you can take it on a usb stick to any other PC or friend etc.

No installation required - just start it from the stick and with your login you have all your planes everywhere. No copy protection at all.

 

But i can make it short:   If i buy a sim from company AAA, i just dont except the need to install and run an autonomic program from company XY. 

 

PS:  i am happy for every customer they find via the steam way. As long as both methods are available, its perfect.

Edited September 13, 2013 by Quax