How to get altitude data in BOS map?

[=GW=seaflanker819]

When I testing bomb in quick mission I found wrong altitude data is the biggest error, wind barely make any error if you enter the correct direction and speed. However, the game map doesnt have a contour map, and I have no idea where to get altitude data. The altitmeter toggle only can give your field pressure, not help much. Where can I find useful altitude? Google earth? Or just guess?

[Barnacles]

If you enable 'instrument panel' in difficulty settings, the altitude it shows on the HUD is hight above ground directly below you. I may be imagining this but I think the ju88 or may have a true altitude instrument in the cockpit.

[=GW=seaflanker819]

1 hour ago, 71st_AH_Barnacles said:

If you enable 'instrument panel' in difficulty settings, the altitude it shows on the HUD is hight above ground directly below you. I may be imagining this but I think the ju88 or may have a true altitude instrument in the cockpit.

Yes, but what useful to bomber is altitude above ground, not true altitude. And that is what I want to know-----how to get the altitude data of IL2 map, which should be drawn on the map or at least concluded in a handbook to let player know about. Maybe there are some softwares can extract data from game? Measure 400x300km^2 map by using instrument panel is unacceptable and too unefficient. Anyway, ground altitude shouldn't be a mystery for bombers to guess every sorties.

[Barnacles]

3 minutes ago, 8./JG5_seaflanker819 said:

Yes, but what useful to bomber is altitude above ground, not true altitude. And that is what I want to know-----how to get the altitude data of IL2 map, which should be drawn on the map or at least concluded in a handbook to let player know about. Maybe there are some softwares can extract data from game? Measure 400x300km^2 map by using instrument panel is unacceptable and too unefficient. Anyway, ground altitude shouldn't be a mystery for bombers to guess every sorties.

Can't help you with that, ps I think I made an error in terminology, when I said the ju88 has a true altimeter I mean height above ground, like a radio altimeter.  

[=GW=seaflanker819]

1 hour ago, 71st_AH_Barnacles said:

Can't help you with that, ps I think I made an error in terminology, when I said the ju88 has a true altimeter I mean height above ground, like a radio altimeter.  

ju 88 dont have a radio altimeter, what you are talking about is contact altimeter I think, which is also shown on ju87 and bf110. It has two pointers, one of them show altitude according to your setting of barometric pressure, QEF or QNH(this pointer is no different from regular altimeter), another painted red is to set the altitude you want to release the bombs automaticly.

Perhaps all plane in BOS dont have radio altimeter,  maybe some WWII plane have? Radio altimeter was invented in 1928.

Edited May 18, 2019 by 8./JG5_seaflanker819

[[DBS]El_Marta]

You can get the ground elevation from the mission editor at least. Just put an object on the map, align it to the ground and move it across the map. The y-coordinate shows the elevation.

The finnish virtual pilots server provides recon photos with height data for their bombing targets on their stats page :

http://ts3.virtualpilots.fi:8000/de/faq/

 

There is  a catalogue of the airfields on the stalingrad map which also contains height data:

 

Edited May 18, 2019 by [DBS]El_Marta

[JimTM]

2 hours ago, 8./JG5_seaflanker819 said:

Yes, but what useful to bomber is altitude above ground, not true altitude. And that is what I want to know-----how to get the altitude data of IL2 map, which should be drawn on the map or at least concluded in a handbook to let player know about. Maybe there are some softwares can extract data from game? Measure 400x300km^2 map by using instrument panel is unacceptable and too unefficient. Anyway, ground altitude shouldn't be a mystery for bombers to guess every sorties.

 

The altitude of the bomber above the ground (as opposed to above sea level) is exactly what you want to set in the bombsight. The HUD gives you the altitude above ground. However, if you cannot access the HUD, then you need to know the altitude above sea level of the target so that you can subtract that from the aircraft altitude above sea level and set the difference in the bombsight.

Edited May 18, 2019 by JimTM

[wtornado]

So in full real MP maps what you are saying is you are screwed? ?

 

You can be off by hundreds of feet.

[JimTM]

28 minutes ago, SCG_wtornado said:

So in full real MP maps what you are saying is you are screwed? ?

 

You can be off by hundreds of feet.

 

Knowing the exact elevation of the target will give you the most accurate results, but I'll leave it to more experienced bomber pilots to say whether it makes a lot of difference.

 

In my case, I set the cockpit altimeter to field elevation (i.e., zero it) before departure. Then, on the bomb run, I set the bombsight altitude to the value on the cockpit altimeter (because the bombsight altimeter always reads standard altitude above sea level). This procedure assumes that the target elevation is reasonably close to the departure field elevation.

 

Ideally, mission makers would include a target elevation in a description that is available when you mouse over the target icon.

Edited May 18, 2019 by JimTM

[BOO]

Please dont take this as a snipe or anything but are you sure you are not over thinking this? I only ask in case Im missing something.

 

I have no real difficulty in hitting individual targets from 5 or 6Km up using only the data from within the bombsight provided i set up the dials right. I dont always put the bomb into a pickle jar but my bombs are generally close enough to destroy the intended target. Cetainly not hundreds of feet away. Id also say that since we are supposeldy using some pretty cronky 1940s gear, having those bombs drop with almost JDAM accuracy from those heights is, for me at least, more than adequate compensation for a few metres miscalutlation of the target height.   

[wtornado]

I understand it is just that I will use a bigger load of  50 kg bombs to make sure the bomber hits the target.?

[JimTM]

4 minutes ago, SCG_wtornado said:

I understand it is just that I will use a bigger load of  50 kg bombs to make sure the bomber hits the target.?

 

Yes, I find that two 1,000 kg bombs does wonders for my "accuracy".  

[=GW=seaflanker819]

1 hour ago, [DBS]El_Marta said:

You can get the ground elevation from the mission editor at least. Just put an object on the map, align it to the ground and move it across the map. The y-coordinate shows the elevation.

The finnish virtual pilots server provides recon photos with height data for their bombing targets on their stats page :

http://ts3.virtualpilots.fi:8000/de/faq/

 

There is  a catalogue of the airfields on the stalingrad map which also contains height data:

 

Thanks a lot for you information, it seems that editor is the only choice to get the altitude,  though virtual pilot have altitude data, taw doesnt have, and HR zal 's reference can help in AF bomb mission(I think IL2 map APP maker used his reference but didnt contain the height data, a pity) By way, I see Jason appreciate the reference maker, but his team make the map, they have the contour map without doubt, we dont need make it by hand if they are merciful enough to give out the data.

[=GW=seaflanker819]

1 hour ago, SCG_BOO said:

Please dont take this as a snipe or anything but are you sure you are not over thinking this? I only ask in case Im missing something.

 

I have no real difficulty in hitting individual targets from 5 or 6Km up using only the data from within the bombsight provided i set up the dials right. I dont always put the bomb into a pickle jar but my bombs are generally close enough to destroy the intended target. Cetainly not hundreds of feet away. Id also say that since we are supposeldy using some pretty cronky 1940s gear, having those bombs drop with almost JDAM accuracy from those heights is, for me at least, more than adequate compensation for a few metres miscalutlation of the target height.   

Using field pressure is luck enough in most cases, for instance you take off at 90m and target is 120m, but if you take off at 50m and target is 250m, height error does make sense, maybe your first bomb would hit but others miss, and you find that you score less than average, think maybe someone bomb it before which actually isnt. I use bomb assist in quick mission to check out bomb sight accuracy, and found that if I dont use field pressure(actually its a random number between 0-200 or so on, why not draw lots) the error can be over 100m when bomb at 2500m in some cases, which mean 250m difference between AGL and true altitude, if use field pressure can decease 100-150m height error and 10-50m ground error, but still not satisfied. Thats why I post on forum to ask how to get altitude data.

2 hours ago, JimTM said:

 

Yes, I find that two 1,000 kg bombs does wonders for my "accuracy".  

Unfortunately, taw often lacks 1000kg bombs, even if it has, in most case you can only use it in rear field on a he111 when people tend to use ju88 in the front AF, so 2x1000kg is very unpopular in taw and its efficiency cant compare with 4x500kg.

[Plurp]

Use bombsight alt minus target elevation for bombing as the cockpit altimeter varies with temp as seen in the different seasons.  (Airfield alt setting) @ 5k Kalach Autumn:  4915 Winter:  5340  Summer:  4790 

 

I just bombed Kalach in winter:  Bombsight alt was 5k, I input 4900 in alt setting (bombsight reading minus elevation (84 m according to HR_zal)) and hit both runways dead on with 1k bombs.  Cockpit alt was 5340.

 

So beyond guestimating between your airfield alt and target alt is to recon the target yourself.  I just flew a fighter over Kalach and I got around 100m (alt not on af setting) so 15 m off, but close enough.

[JimTM]

2 hours ago, Plurp said:

Use bombsight alt minus target elevation for bombing as the cockpit altimeter varies with temp as seen in the different seasons.  (Airfield alt setting) @ 5k Kalach Autumn:  4915 Winter:  5340  Summer:  4790 

...

 

FYI, this variance happens because if you set your altimeter to "Altimeter reference pressure: standard atmosphere", your altimeter reads your height above mean sea level under ICAO Standard Atmosphere (ISA) conditions (temperature 15 degrees C, pressure 760mmHg). Change the mission temperature or pressure and your altimeter reading changes.

Edited May 18, 2019 by JimTM

[Plurp]

5 minutes ago, JimTM said:

 

FYI, this variance happens because if you set your altimeter to "Altimeter reference pressure: standard atmosphere", your altimeter reads your height above mean sea level under ICAO Standard Atmosphere (ISA) conditions (temperature 15 degrees C, pressure 760mmHg). Change the mission temperature or pressure and your altimeter reading changes.

Thank you for the info, was curious.  More reason to use bombsight alt as standard winter alt was 5430 and airfield alt was 5340 when 4900 does the trick.