micro transactions?

[Bearcat]

The skin system in ROF works, because it keeps people from cheating. If you wanna use a custom skin, submit it for approval. I don't really see what the issue is. Plenty of guys fly ROF with custom skins with their logo, number, etc. 

Luke just for clarificatiin because I still have yet to fly RoF online.. can you elaborate a bit more on how skins workrk please? How long does it take to get a skin approved? What would cause one to get rejected?  Can you use custom skins offline at will? I have no idea what the RoF model is in it's implementation... I just know and am stating for the record that I hope BoS has the feature... Even if it was like it is in RoF the feature needs to be there. I have seen some of the custom skins for RoF  and they look great.

[BlitzPig_EL]

Hmmm...

 

I've never seen anything but the "historic" skin packs online.   Are custom skins part of the "non-historic" skin packs?   If so does this mean that If I do a custom skin I have to submit it and wait for the next patch for it to be in the game?  Which of course means that anyone could use it.

 

Unacceptable, and only points to a game engine that is not robust enough to carry the traffic online.

Edited February 12, 2013 by ElAurens

[migmadmarine]

It's not a matter of robustness, it's to prevent people from making clear/invisible skins to cheat with. 

The system works like this. 

1. User makes skin. 

2. User uploads skin, screen shots to a thread they have made in the historical/non-historical skin section, where it is put to a public vote 

3. The public votes, and 99.998% of the time approves it

4. The skin is put in a historical or fictional (as the case may be) skin pack, which is released at the time of a patch, and must be downloaded and installed. Those who have the skin pack will see the skin, those who don't will see the standard default skin. 

 

Note: Custom skins can be used in single player in the mods on mode with out being approved. 

 

Advantages:

-Prevents invisible skins

-makes all skins available in one place

-Those who only want certain packs (historical vs. fictional) can install the ones they choose. 

 

Disadvantages 

-more steps than previous methods

-a new skin pack will need to be downloaded after each patch if people wish to have the skins. 

 

All in all, I think it's a fine system. 

Edited February 12, 2013 by thenorm

[Bearcat]

So you mean to tell me that if I had a "clear" skin my plane would be invisible? The model of my aircraft would not still be obvious? Well I hope the code in BoS is such that that is not the method used. I hope that BoS is built in such a way that if you had no skin a blank white aircraft would show up.  Or better yet so that if a plane has no skin then it can't even launch. I don't like that method and I think it is cumbersome and stiffles online creativity. Having said that... even that method would be better than not being able to do it at all. I would like for my skin to be my skin. Granted even in IL2 yoi can get a skin from the cache ... I hope BoS uses a methid closer to the IL2 model than the RoF one.

[migmadmarine]

Well no, Invisible isnt really the best word (there was a great screen shot of this, I wish I could find it again) but IIRC the aircraft will appear as a skeleton, only showing the internal framing. While I agree this would not be a good system for a WWII sim, with it's mostly all metal aircraft, it's good to have some translucency possible in a WWI sim, since some aircraft like the Taube were known for letting light through the wings. 

[Bearcat]

Well no, Invisible isnt really the best word (there was a great screen shot of this, I wish I could find it again) but IIRC the aircraft will appear as a skeleton, only showing the internal framing. While I agree this would not be a good system for a WWII sim, with it's mostly all metal aircraft, it's good to have some translucency possible in a WWI sim, since some aircraft like the Taube were known for letting light through the wings. 

Hmm that is kind of interesting... you mean the complete frame? That says something about the way the models are implemented and the dm. 

[Rama]

So you mean to tell me that if I had a "clear" skin my plane would be invisible?

No. A plane with a blanck skin would be blank. But with the alpha channel, a player can create a skin that makes the skined surface invisible. Some use it to "delete" (visually) some plane equipment.

Edited February 12, 2013 by Rama

[FlatSpinMan]

It just seems an extra layer of hassle for someone wanting to use their own skin. I don't know, was cheating using skins an issue online in IL2? I rarely played online.

 

Anything which puts content creation a step out of users hands seems it would harm BoS more than help it, to my mind. Anyone could make a skin in IL2 (except me) or put together a mission then quickly and easily share it with the community directly. This must have helped the lifetime of the game to a great degree.

[AndyJWest]

Bearcat, an illustration of why an alpha layer is useful in RoF skins. 3 Spad 7s, with different engine cooling arrangements:

 

Stock engine side cowling, with louvres:

 

Perforated cowling:

 

Cowling removed entirely:

Another view, showing that the details underneath are 3d, and not part of the skin:

 

Without an alpha layer, this would need extra complexity in 3d modelling etc.

[=IRFC=Jorri]

The voting system prevents abuse of these possibilities.

 

Playing RoF in 'Mods-on' mode allows people to fly with skins that have not been officially approved, so people who want to fly absurd skins can still do so - just not in a serious online game...only in single player, and multiplayer servers that also have this 'mods on' option checked.

 

The downloading of different skinpacks (official, community historical, community fictional) allows everyone to choose for themselves what skins they want to have in their install, and thus what skins they can use but also what skins they will see other players use. If someone is using a skin that you don't have, you see the default skin.

 

So you can choose to download only the most 'important' historical skins (official skinpack)...or all the other historical skins as well (community historical). If you don't want to see fictional skins in multiplayer mode, you stick to those skin packs. If you don't mind seeing fictional skins, and like to know who you're flying against in multiplayer, you also install the community fictional skinpacks.

 

For every aircraft that is released, a 'template' is also released - this is a psd file where all the different elements of the skin are on seperate layers (2D structural details, camouflage, markings, different stages of weathering, etc). This makes it easier to create your own custom skins. This is not done in-game, it's done in Photoshop - and a plugin is needed to then export the skin to .dds.

 

The alpha layer in the psd file accounts for different graphical effects (reflections, maybe bump mapping and normal mapping? not my expertise) and you can play around with that as well. You can make the skin invisible (revealing the inner framework - which is textured from a different file, which can also be modified but is not a part of the skin submission system so it can never be modified and used in 'mods off' mode. Other parts, like the things you see from first persion view, and things like the engine and machineguns, are also in different texture files so they cannot be changed for use with mods off mode.) - but you can also be create with it. For example to make only parts of the airframe invisible - see attached pictures. Or to change reflections (make parts look like metal, or stop them from looking like metal). And other things.

 

So to create a 'blank' skin is actually not that easy, although I guess turning off a few layers would suffice

 

As for traffic, a single skin clocks in at over 5MB. It's a matter of taste, but I would rather have the skins I want on my HD beforehand and not have to download all of them on the spot when I join a server. The submission system also means that people can't change their skin every other day, so that also limits the amount of skins you have to download in total.

 

Also, the total amount of skins takes up a HUGE amount of space on your HDD (almost 30GB for me right now). It's good to have the choice of which skins you want to install, and which not.

 

Of course, there are also quite a few downsides:

- You have to wait for the next patch to see your skin included

- If you want to keep certain fictional skins (of friends you often fly with/against, for example) and remove others (that annoying pink skin with flowers on it), you have to manually do this

- It's a lot of hassle to submit skins

- There is no consensus on what skin should be allowed and what skin shouldn't. Some people vote against fictional skins that are not of a semi-historical nature. Other people don't mind Hello Kitty skins to make it into the sim. Others still try to exploit with skins, for example by removing the markings and literally applying ground textures as camouflage. Luckily many people vote against these, but also a lot of people still reply to this with 'good work!'.

- With every patch, no community skinpacks are released that can be downloaded seperately. However, the Official skin pack is updated in its entirety, so everytime you want the new skins in that pack, you have to download the whole pack again

 

I'm sure there are more downsides.

 

Another good side, though, is for people who strive to make historical skins: the submission process means their work will be reviewed by more experienced and also more historically learned skinners, and often, technical or historical errors are pointed out which are then corrected before the skin makes it into the sim.

 

Here's a very nice fictional skin by B24-Liberator, who turned the Fokker E.III into a pre-war monoplane lookalike:

 

You can see the metal airframe and even the fuel tank that were modeled underneath the canvas that originally covered the fuselage and tail section. Reportedly he was too lazy to remove the machinegun, but that's also possible (J.j. achieved this)

 

 

Edited February 12, 2013 by hq_Jorri

[=IRFC=Jorri]

This beauty was made long long time ago, by VonFuchs. It was never submitted but I think it's still worth showing, because it tells something of how skins in RoF work.

Edited February 12, 2013 by hq_Jorri

[migmadmarine]

Jorri, you have a link to that E.III skin? that is really neat. 

[SharpeXB]

Yeah the skins really do need to be approved. Otherwise you'd end up with big purple dinosaurs painted on the planes or something. RoF has packs for both historical and fantasy skins though.

The end result for RoF is a great variety of high quality skins that are available easily to everyone.

Edited February 12, 2013 by SharpeXB

[SharpeXB]

Also the ammount of flyable aircraft are important for me, and that was main reason why I never cared for CLoD.

Not enough aircraft in CloD?! You know this game is bankrupt right?

What CloD should have done was launch the game with 4 really well done planes and a game that worked. A Spitfire IA, 109 E3, Hurricane and a Me110. And all the rest should all have been paid add ons. This is what RoF did. Then it might still be in business.

[Bearcat]

Thanks Andy & Jorri.. now I understand.. although I don't thik that would be the same problem with WWII skins .. I will have to see what we get before I dwell on it any further but now I understand why they did it the way they did in RoF but I still hope it is different in BoS. 

 

Not enough aircraft in CloD?! You know this game is bankrupt right?
What CloD should have done was launch the game with 4 really well done planes and a game that worked. A Spitfire IA, 109 E3, Hurricane and a Me110. And all the rest should all have been paid add ons. This is what RoF did. Then it might still be in business.

 

That may all be true.. but do we really want to go there....

I don't think so...

[Rjel]

What is the harm of someone wanting to fly with big purple dinosaurs painted on their plane? I've seen, as I assume most of us have, some really cool skins in IL-2 that were anything but historical. I've also seen historical skins that were anything but good. So what? If the game is customizable then everyone should be able to fly his A/C as he sees fit. That was the beauty of IL-2. Without a chance for people to show off whatever skills they possess, you stand to lose another skinner that may develop into a skinner that would rival those we now admire. Those guys may not be around forever. We'll need fresh blood there every bit as much as new simmers.

[SharpeXB]

Back to the original topic. I don't think you'll see 1CGC selling skins. It's pretty clear what the extra paid dlc will be. Just look at the RoF store. Mainly it will be extra planes or different versions of the ones that come with BoS. That much should be obvious.

Edited February 13, 2013 by SharpeXB

[SharpeXB]

What is the harm of someone wanting to fly with big purple dinosaurs painted on their plane? I've seen, as I assume most of us have, some really cool skins in IL-2 that were anything but historical. I've also seen historical skins that were anything but good. So what? If the game is customizable then everyone should be able to fly his A/C as he sees fit. That was the beauty of IL-2. Without a chance for people to show off whatever skills they possess, you stand to lose another skinner that may develop into a skinner that would rival those we now admire. Those guys may not be around forever. We'll need fresh blood there every bit as much as new simmers.

If the skin isn't in one of the official skin packs. None of the other players would be able to see it unless they had downloaded it somehow.

[DD_Arthur]

What is the harm of someone wanting to fly with big purple dinosaurs painted on their plane? I've seen, as I assume most of us have, some really cool skins in IL-2 that were anything but historical. I've also seen historical skins that were anything but good. So what? If the game is customizable then everyone should be able to fly his A/C as he sees fit. That was the beauty of IL-2. Without a chance for people to show off whatever skills they possess, you stand to lose another skinner that may develop into a skinner that would rival those we now admire. Those guys may not be around forever. We'll need fresh blood there every bit as much as new simmers.

 

 

I must admit I agree with all this and for the single player side of RoF there is no reason why you cannot fly with any design you choose on your plane. Sharing skins is more of a problem however and as has been pointed out, there are a couple of major technical issues associated with skins.  They are big - 5 mb at least - which is a big download if implemented in the way IL2 1946 works now and therefore could mount up to a fairly hefty amount of HD space.  Also, I've no doubt some people would create "invisible" skins too and use them online if they were able.  The way skins work in RoF at the moment over comes these issues.

 

 However, the present system used in RoF does seem rather clunky.  The way skins are presented for possible inclusion at the moment does seem very convoluted and the present system of polling skins, whilst a good way to give community imput, seems rather pointless when the answer is almost always yes.  Also, I think the system in RoF works fairly well at the moment as the game is a niche within a niche but if implemented in BoS it will be quickly overwhelmed by the much larger number of people who want to skin WWII planes and could lead to much disappointment.  

 

I think more thought will be needed here.  Also, I do not think there is any question of having to pay for additional skins.  That is just not going to happen.      

[VeryOldMan]

Hmmm...

 

I've never seen anything but the "historic" skin packs online.   Are custom skins part of the "non-historic" skin packs?   If so does this mean that If I do a custom skin I have to submit it and wait for the next patch for it to be in the game?  Which of course means that anyone could use it.

 

Unacceptable, and only points to a game engine that is not robust enough to carry the traffic online.

 

 

Its  not something so simple as  the engine being robust. Simple badnwidth issues may arise. On a new generation system you can expect a skin pack from a plane to be  a few MB in size.  In fact I would not get surprised with somethign like 2048x2048*4 => 16 MB.  Add  64 players in an online match and you could  reach the problem of  nearly 400MB  of download before a match starts :/

 

Also its a path for  both cheating and system invasions with  custom skins (yes, I said  invasion as in security issue). A malformed header  can be used to  throw the stack pointer  of the library processing it in a classical way of bufferoverflow attack.  You can avoid that sure, but adds more code, more complexity, more problems to handle before release.

 

Not enough aircraft in CloD?! You know this game is bankrupt right?

What CloD should have done was launch the game with 4 really well done planes and a game that worked. A Spitfire IA, 109 E3, Hurricane and a Me110. And all the rest should all have been paid add ons. This is what RoF did. Then it might still be in business.

 

 

That is my opinion and I  still keep it. There are only completely uninteresting planes that get  you bored very fast on CLoD.  I still defend that one of the reasons the game went bankrup is because a lot of people did not  cared to fly that  limited scenario. But that is another topic

 

So you mean to tell me that if I had a "clear" skin my plane would be invisible? The model of my aircraft would not still be obvious? Well I hope the code in BoS is such that that is not the method used. I hope that BoS is built in such a way that if you had no skin a blank white aircraft would show up.  Or better yet so that if a plane has no skin then it can't even launch. I don't like that method and I think it is cumbersome and stiffles online creativity. Having said that... even that method would be better than not being able to do it at all. I would like for my skin to be my skin. Granted even in IL2 yoi can get a skin from the cache ... I hope BoS uses a methid closer to the IL2 model than the RoF one.

 

 

You do not need a clear skin for that. Just make the alpha channel  completely transparent. 

[Rama]

Its  not something so simple as  the engine being robust. Simple badnwidth issues may arise. On a new generation system you can expect a skin pack from a plane to be  a few MB in size.  In fact I would not get surprised with somethign like 2048x2048*4 => 16 MB.  Add  64 players in an online match and you could  reach the problem of  nearly 400MB  of download before a match starts.

Absolutly.

 

And maybe some don't remember, but in most IL2 online wars, and even on some dogfights servers, Skin download was cancelled (there was an option a host could use for that purpose). The reason was that the skin download traffics generated a lot of synchronization problems at game start (with pilots crashing into each other at take off).

I remenber well using third party skin packs in some online wars, that you have to download in order to see them before the game launch. What is done with RoF is not different (but at a global level).

 

Actually, everybody in RoF can use own custom skins in solo play or in "mods on" online games. And if peoples want to see each other's unnofficial custom skins in a multiplayer game, they just have to exchange the skins (by any kind of file exchange) before the game start. So as i IL2 online wars, they can create unnofficial skins packs and use them online. The only limitation is to use "mods on".... there's not much differences then...

Maybe an improvement could be to create a specific directory for unnoficial skins that can be used online in "mods off" mode... thus allowing only these mods. Then there will be no need to use only official skin pack in "mods off", and users will still be protected bu cheats (unnoficial skins not exchanged specifically for online play with agreement of the participants).

[Rjel]

If the skin isn't in one of the official skin packs. None of the other players would be able to see it unless they had downloaded it somehow.

 

You're missing my point. The system in RoF, I think, might stifle creativity IMO. I understand the skins could be uploaded and then voted upon. Maybe most do get approved. I've no idea on that. But, if someone were to be turned down, perhaps that person never tries again. That could be a loss in the long term.

[SharpeXB]

You're missing my point. The system in RoF, I think, might stifle creativity IMO. I understand the skins could be uploaded and then voted upon. Maybe most do get approved. I've no idea on that. But, if someone were to be turned down, perhaps that person never tries again. That could be a loss in the long term.

I think there really isn't much to worry about in this regard. This system RoF uses hasn't prevented the game from having hundreds of really well done skins. Because they are official updates its easy for every player to get them. You aren't making people search all over random sites for them. It's all quite user friendly. And the developer really has to have some control over what's used by everyone in the game.

 

The skins also have to be submitted to 777 so they can appear on the game GUI. RoF, if you haven't seen it, has a fantastic interface. For example in any game mode, mp, sp or qm you see a small vignette of the skin when selecting your plane or squadron. If you hover over the selection in the load-out screen you see it too. They all have consistent naming conventions and an historical description. That wouldn't be possible unless the skin author submitted a screenshot, which is one of the requirements.

Edited February 14, 2013 by SharpeXB

[VeryOldMan]

What is the harm of someone wanting to fly with big purple dinosaurs painted on their plane? I've seen, as I assume most of us have, some really cool skins in IL-2 that were anything but historical. I've also seen historical skins that were anything but good. So what? If the game is customizable then everyone should be able to fly his A/C as he sees fit. That was the beauty of IL-2. Without a chance for people to show off whatever skills they possess, you stand to lose another skinner that may develop into a skinner that would rival those we now admire. Those guys may not be around forever. We'll need fresh blood there every bit as much as new simmers.

 

 

The problem  are not  purple dinossaurs, one important  and widely know concept  on  video game industry  regarding user created content  is   usually called "time to penis" and  is a rough estimation of how long  takes for   falic  content first reach the game environment and the   assintotic curve leading to total and complete  substitution of useful content for variations of it. Its usually regarded a 17 minutes for a game with 100 thousand  users.

[Rama]

Again, if players fly in "mods on" (in solo or multi player), they will fly with whatever skin they want, aproved or not.

And, if they send their skins to their friends, their friend will also see the skin in multiplayer mode.

So, in "mods on", there's no limitation. Everybody can use whatever skin they want and share them with friends... and even better, if I don't want to see that dinosaur or X-painted skin, I can decide not to see it without changing anything for the friend that sent it to me. Thus, In "mods on", you have more free possibilities than with the IL2 system.

[Furio]

 

Up to  now  we could see that Bearcat  expect  a very different set of things to be charged or free if compared to my expectations. Does anyone else have a different set of expectations to share with us? I still defend that all vanity parts are charged (as skins for example) while the competitive part is not.

 

We should always remember that vast majority of players fly OFFLINE only. This is understandable, because you can customize the difficulty level that best suit your ability level, not to mention people that prefer a more relaxed playing mode. That said, I totally agree with VeryOldMan. The competitive part should never be for sale. To be more precise: no such thing as water-methanol injection, or bigger guns, or thicker armour plates should ever be for sale.

 

I don???

[Charlo-VR]

Well no, Invisible isnt really the best word (there was a great screen shot of this, I wish I could find it again) but IIRC the aircraft will appear as a skeleton, only showing the internal framing. While I agree this would not be a good system for a WWII sim, with it's mostly all metal aircraft, it's good to have some translucency possible in a WWI sim, since some aircraft like the Taube were known for letting light through the wings. 

 

In the Ghost-rider fokker e3 thread on the ROF forums you can see a mostly-transparent, skeletal EIII skin.

 

 

Someone else shared a screenshot of a fully transparent skin back in the Why are skins regulated? thread in the ROF forums:

 

 

These would be strictly mods on, of course.

 

Charlo

[gavagai]

We should always remember that vast majority of players fly OFFLINE only. This is understandable, because you can customize the difficulty level that best suit your ability level, not to mention people that prefer a more relaxed playing mode. That said, I totally agree with VeryOldMan. The competitive part should never be for sale. To be more precise: no such thing as water-methanol injection, or bigger guns, or thicker armour plates should ever be for sale.

 

Which belies the raison d'etre of DLC.  Only so much money can be made from catoring to peacocks.  People will buy competitive advantage so readily that few developers can resist, and should they?  A while back there was a presentation about this in free subject.  Some of the most vociferous and righteous people who argue against paying for competitive advantage were some of the first to open their wallets when it was available.

[migmadmarine]

Ah, thank you charlo, good to see you here (said it before, love the ferret).

[76SQN-FatherTed]

We should always remember that vast majority of players fly OFFLINE only. This is understandable, because you can customize the difficulty level that best suit your ability level, not to mention people that prefer a more relaxed playing mode. That said, I totally agree with VeryOldMan. The competitive part should never be for sale. To be more precise: no such thing as water-methanol injection, or bigger guns, or thicker armour plates should ever be for sale.

 

 

 

Which belies the raison d'etre of DLC.  Only so much money can be made from catoring to peacocks.  People will buy competitive advantage so readily that few developers can resist, and should they?  A while back there was a presentation about this in free subject.  Some of the most vociferous and righteous people who argue against paying for competitive advantage were some of the first to open their wallets when it was available.

 

My feelings echo Furio's on this, but I fear Gavagai's is the more realistic outlook.

[DD_fruitbat]

Which belies the raison d'etre of DLC.  Only so much money can be made from catoring to peacocks.  People will buy competitive advantage so readily that few developers can resist, and should they?  A while back there was a presentation about this in free subject.  Some of the most vociferous and righteous people who argue against paying for competitive advantage were some of the first to open their wallets when it was available.

 

pretty much spot on.

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

Not necessarily.

 

I think this can be circumvented, for example by reducing the price of a bundle accordingly if one already owns one or more of the aircraft.

Paying twice for the same aircraft would of course put off a lot of people - probably including me.

 

However, if the subsequent scenarios are chosen wisely there should be enough aircraft variety to not run in these problems early on.

And if that should be the chosen pricing model, I trust that 1C Game Studios will be able to find a solution that gets them their money without screwing over their customers.

 

Shouldn't be too hard. iTunes does this with single track purchases when you then decide to purchase the whole album. I'd think it's a pretty simple algorythm.

[Bearcat]

We should always remember that vast majority of players fly OFFLINE only. This is understandable, because you can customize the difficulty level that best suit your ability level, not to mention people that prefer a more relaxed playing mode. That said, I totally agree with VeryOldMan. The competitive part should never be for sale. To be more precise: no such thing as water-methanol injection, or bigger guns, or thicker armour plates should ever be for sale.

 

I don???

[AndyJWest]

Regarding 'paying for a competitive advantage', is buying a Thrustmaster Warthog, TrackIR and the latest overclocked gaming PC cheating? I'm sure we've all spent far more on hardware than on software. Anyway, I can't see BoS DLC working like that - it certainly isn't the impression I've got from what's been said so far. And I'm sure it's been said before, but it's worth repeating that the RoF 'weapon mods' have rarely given much of an advantage - online, I only ever use them on bombers, and the benefit is probably mostly psychological, as once the enemy scouts are on you, generally the only remaining question is which side of the line you are going to crash.

[DD_fruitbat]

weapon mods probably not, but gunsights definitely. 

[AndyJWest]

weapon mods probably not, but gunsights definitely. 

Presumably not going to be an issue in BoS. As for RoF, I'm beginning to wonder whether the (mostly) ahistorical German reflector sights are actually a net negative, for me at least. They may give a false sense of accuracy for long-range pot-shots I shouldn't be taking anyway, and I'd be better off just concentrating in getting in close, where iron sights are just as effective. It is worth bearing in mind that a conventional reflector sight doesn't compensate for non-straight-and-level flight any more than an iron sight does.

[DD_fruitbat]

Presumably not going to be an issue in BoS.

 

 

One would very much hope not, but nothing is certain is it.

 

 As for RoF, I'm beginning to wonder whether the (mostly) ahistorical German reflector sights are actually a net negative, for me at least. They may give a false sense of accuracy for long-range pot-shots I shouldn't be taking anyway, and I'd be better off just concentrating in getting in close, where iron sights are just as effective. It is worth bearing in mind that a conventional reflector sight doesn't compensate for non-straight-and-level flight any more than an iron sight does.

 

 

I can only speak for myself, but my accuracy jumped up a hell of a lot using the reflector sights. Its not just the sight itself, its the often better position, and the much less obstructed view, that makes deflection shooting so much easier. 

[AndyJWest]

... nothing is certain is it.

 

I don't know. It seems certain that whatever is done with BoS, someone will complain that it is wrong. It's been like that with every other air combat simulation... 

 

Regarding RoF, have you played since the recent patch which increased dispersion? Of course, this may actually be increasing my chances of actually hitting something. With my aim, mounting one of the guns backwards would probably double my hit count. 

[DD_fruitbat]

I don't know. It seems certain that whatever is done with BoS, someone will complain that it is wrong. It's been like that with every other air combat simulation... 

 

 

Very likely. That said, i don't really like the fact that I've had to pay extra to get instruments and particularly gunsights to level the playing field, and i wouldn't be terribly surprised if it carried on in some form in BoS, because its easy extra money for the Devs, but only time will truly tell.

 

Regarding RoF, have you played since the recent patch which increased dispersion? Of course, this may actually be increasing my chances of actually hitting something. With my aim, mounting one of the guns backwards would probably double my hit count. 

 

Yes, i'm current regarding patches and only caved into buying the gunsights after that particular patch, although not able to play much at the moment because i'm up to my eyeballs in a Stalingrad SEOW which is taking most of my flying time.

Edited February 26, 2013 by fruitbat

[Ploofy]

I don't care about BoS business model. If this game will be good i will buy it.
RoF is very good and i have buy almost all the aircrafts and field mods

 

my 2 cts