VR-DriftaholiC Posted March 14, 2014 Posted March 14, 2014 http://flyingheritage.tumblr.com/post/42362504606/off-center
SOLIDKREATE Posted March 29, 2014 Posted March 29, 2014 Whoa dude I never noticed this before excellent post! :bump:
69th_chuter Posted April 13, 2014 Posted April 13, 2014 And yet this is the same aircraft on the flight line:
LastRightsXIII Posted April 13, 2014 Posted April 13, 2014 And yet this is the same aircraft on the flight line: Plane is still leaning to the left. The ground slopes down to the right while the building (roof) is naturally built level. It's an illusion
69th_chuter Posted April 13, 2014 Posted April 13, 2014 ... hmmm ... ... this is really rather dramatic, though. It should be readily apparent in any and all pics of 109s.
LastRightsXIII Posted April 13, 2014 Posted April 13, 2014 ... hmmm ... ... this is really rather dramatic, though. It should be readily apparent in any and all pics of 109s. You would tend yo think that's for sure.
SOLIDKREATE Posted April 14, 2014 Posted April 14, 2014 I'll go to the museum this weekend and confirm this 'lean'. I live 20 minutes away.
Crump Posted April 14, 2014 Posted April 14, 2014 Geez..... It has oleo pneumatic struts...... It is normal.
EliteWing Posted April 15, 2014 Posted April 15, 2014 And yet this is the same aircraft on the flight line: That is also a bf109 in our generation that has probably been worked on thousands of times. Whose to say the last crew chief ran even pressure in both struts? Without knowing that the OEM way is to run it off set? Still doesn't say anything against the OP nor the fact that this is illegitimate. I guess the best way to find out, would be to look up some old bf109 Luftwaffe operating procedures. Geez..... It has oleo pneumatic struts...... It is normal. Yes it is. Now hopefully they will replicate this in game,
69th_chuter Posted April 16, 2014 Posted April 16, 2014 That is also a bf109 in our generation that has probably been worked on thousands of times. Whose to say the last crew chief ran even pressure in both struts? Without knowing that the OEM way is to run it off set? Still doesn't say anything against the OP nor the fact that this is illegitimate. I guess the best way to find out, would be to look up some old bf109 Luftwaffe operating procedures. Yes it is. Now hopefully they will replicate this in game, If you hadn't noticed it is the very same aircraft that is used to illustrate the "offset" stance. The difference is that the "offset" is illustrated while the aircraft is indoors (static display) and the more even stance is seen while the aircraft is on the flight line during a weekend flight demonstration. Frankly, as an aircraft mechanic I would be VERY surprised if 100psi would even be the cause of such a drastic lean. And, while "amping up" the left strut might help even the plane up while under power for take off it could lead to some interesting issues while off power for landing so, again, I'd be rather surprised if very much (lots more than 100psi or enough for the lean shown) differential pressure was institutionalized. I would tend to think that while a small difference in pressures might be specified, a simply half flat strut was misinterpreted as being a direct result of that specification.
FuriousMeow Posted April 16, 2014 Posted April 16, 2014 Looking at the photo that is supposed to show an even strut stance actually looks like it is showing an offset strut stance. Its a terrible proof consideing the photo is off angle and possibly from an elevated view point. Just for the sake of it, I drew terrible lines in MSPaint from points that looked like they should be the same on each side. From one fastener on the upper side of the struts, and the axle location on the wheels. Looks like they aren't parallel to me MSPaint is so much science, that both are irrefutable evidence of nothing. The pixels are clear evidence of - nothing as well. I'm more inclined to go with FHC than MSPaint's "scientific proof" it has always failed to provide.
Crump Posted April 16, 2014 Posted April 16, 2014 Frankly, as an aircraft mechanic I would be VERY surprised if 100psi would even be the cause of such a drastic lean. Sure it will cause a dramatic lean if one strut is over pressurized and 100 psi of nitrogen is a huge difference. The one in museum on static display either needs a shot of nitrogen or has a blown seal which was very common in oleo struts of the day. Seal technology was the reason why hydraulic control systems where such dismal failures and not in widespread use at the time. After landing it sometimes takes a while for the struts to come back up. If the esthetic's bother you, often grabbing the wingtip and shaking it will bring the oleo back up. Every aircraft that has oleo struts will have this "uneven" issue!! It used to bug me in my first airplane seeing a three foot difference in my wings after landing. By the time I got back from lunch, it was back to sort of being even. Shake the wing, and the left strut would pop right back up. Yes it is. Now hopefully they will replicate this in game, Sure, it would be a great immersion graphic for all aircraft with oleo's. It does not effect handling or landing characteristics.
MiloMorai Posted April 16, 2014 Posted April 16, 2014 What pressure were legs suppose to be? Were there indicator reference marks like the Fw190 had on its l/g covers?
EliteWing Posted April 19, 2014 Posted April 19, 2014 (edited) If you hadn't noticed it is the very same aircraft that is used to illustrate the "offset" stance. The difference is that the "offset" is illustrated while the aircraft is indoors (static display) and the more even stance is seen while the aircraft is on the flight line during a weekend flight demonstration. Frankly, as an aircraft mechanic I would be VERY surprised if 100psi would even be the cause of such a drastic lean. And, while "amping up" the left strut might help even the plane up while under power for take off it could lead to some interesting issues while off power for landing so, again, I'd be rather surprised if very much (lots more than 100psi or enough for the lean shown) differential pressure was institutionalized. I would tend to think that while a small difference in pressures might be specified, a simply half flat strut was misinterpreted as being a direct result of that specification. You are right, wasn't looking thoroughly at the pictures. Not really sure what the point of posting that second picture was, as its a horrible angle for judgement. Also, 100psi WILL in fact cause noticeable lean. Especially with this model, as the BF109 gear span is very small compared to most aircraft... Edited April 19, 2014 by OPSEliteWing
Pringliano Posted April 20, 2014 Posted April 20, 2014 What about inflight? Any RW reports on the need to use aileron / aileron trim ( don't know if the 109s had this ) or only rudder / rudder trim, to counter the prop effects? With it's relatively short tail I guess roll ( to the left ) would play a major role due to prop effects ( torque, slipstream, etc...). In IL2 I guess the aircraft are designe to be trimmed for cruise ( like their real counterparts ), but on many occasions I am forced to use aileron, or even better rudder, to get them flying straight when applying / reducing power. I just wonder if the real 109s reacted that most in terms of bank, due to power changes?
Sternjaeger Posted April 26, 2014 Posted April 26, 2014 mmmh 100 PSi is a substantial difference.. it'd be interesting to say what the manual says... where's Kurfurst?!
Crump Posted April 26, 2014 Posted April 26, 2014 (edited) Any RW reports on the need to use aileron / aileron trim I have flown a lot of real airplanes with aileron trim and never had to use it at all. I can count on one hand the number of times I have used rudder trim as well. There is a good reason why the most common trim set up in aviation is adjustable elevator and everything else fixed. Edited April 26, 2014 by Crump
DD_fruitbat Posted April 26, 2014 Posted April 26, 2014 Just curious, how many of those planes were 1200hp plus? 1
Sternjaeger Posted April 26, 2014 Posted April 26, 2014 Just curious, how many of those planes were 1200hp plus? ..exactly.
Crump Posted April 26, 2014 Posted April 26, 2014 Just curious, how many of those planes were 1200hp plus? I fly a 1200 hp (+) aircraft almost every day. I pay my bills and feed my family doing it. Do the math for stability and control and you will see it does not make as much of difference. Your implication the experience is not relevant is just not true. 1
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