Hypoxia

[HagarTheHorrible]

Don't know if this has already been covered, but a simple key word search didn't get any hits.

 

Should hypoxia be included as part of the difficulty settings, so, for example, on full real it might be necessary to turn on oxygen at a certain altitude to prevent hypoxia or if the oxygen system is damaged in combat ?

 

Symptoms of hypoxia might be an increasing delay in reaction times or a gradual blurring out, nothing too obvious to start with but dangerous if ignored or unrecognised.

 

I suppose one of the arguments against might be that flights are generally so short that conservation of supply is not a consideration.

[LukeFF]

Nah, I don't see it as a necessary feature. 

[Dave]

The time of useful consciousness at 20,000' is > 30 minutes. So you'd have to spend almost the entire map rotation on a typical server at this altitude for hypoxia to become relevant. 

While the service ceilings of the aircraft in question are circa 40,000' almost all historical engagements in this theatre took place at very low altitude. 

Dogfights tend to quickly burn altitude anyway, and the party who's performance envelope advantages lie at lower altitude will drag the fight down.

 

On a less historical note, I don't think I've ever seen aircraft in WW2 sims operating at 20,000' let alone 40,000'.

 

On a personal experience note, the effects of hypoxia would be difficult to model, as they are initially subtle and cognitive in nature and vary from person to person. This is why military aircrew undergo AvMed training in hypobaric chambers to learn their own particular onset symptoms. Mine were basic math failure, tiredness, lack of ability to concentrate and forgetting things like my name followed by the gradual loss of colour vision as time progressed. I don't see how you could represent any but the last of those, and other guys had different symptoms. Most people didn't even realise they were hypoxic until they'd done it more than once and watched the videos.

[Venturi]

Wrong. You lose o2 at 20k and you'll know it in 1 minute, not 20.

[Venturi]

Personally, I think the OPs a great idea. Easy implementation. If O2 hit, and alt above 10k ft, give reduction in blackout tolerance, blurry vision. Increases farther up one goes. Also, there was an o2 limit. The tanks ran out.

 

This all would give tactical significance. And btw, fights are routinely 3km plus on the MP server already. Altitude=advantage.

[DickDong]

+1 for this, more immersion. Dave I've had several scraps at 25k over Northern France in Cliffs. Doesn't last too long usually as someone pulls too hard and tumbles a bit. Hypoxia not necessary but would definitely be a nice addition.

Edited April 11, 2014 by jarhead2b

[Dave]

 

The time of useful consciousness at 20,000' is > 30 minutes. 

 Oops, I meant 15,000'. 20,000' is the alt we trained at, the symptoms of which I was leading to. At 20'000 I never lost consciousness even after 10 minutes, although I was well and truly impaired by 10. Never had blurry vision either, but I did lose colour vision. Exertion did accelerate symptomatic onset, but not by a factor of 10.

 

Wrong. You lose o2 at 20k and you'll know it in 1 minute, not 20.

Dunno where you get your figures from - but I'm speaking from experience. That is I have been to 20,000' without supplemental oxygen (in a hypobaric chamber) and am quite familiar with the effects.

You don't "know it" within a minute.

 

As for "losing O2 at 20K" - the partial pressure of O2 decreases from sea level. Above 10,000' almost all people require supplemental oxygen.

And as for the symptoms - as I said earlier, while there are symptoms in common among individuals, their perception varies - with the obvious exception of death.

 

The onset is subtle, particularly with aircraft incapable of high rates of climb.

We actually lost a Hornet pilot in the 90's to hypoxia - he never knew what happened to him.

Edited April 13, 2014 by Dave

[Dave]

I could agree with reducing G tolerance - that actually makes sense. But as the sufferer you wouldn't be aware of it. I suppose I can't really disagree with the idea of this being an addition to immersion if we already model G tolerance - which also varies greatly from person to person. I just don't see it being significant enough within the context the 30 minute rounds we have unless players loiter at altitude long enough to expend supplemental oxygen and generally avoid engagement completely. Or do you want to require the player to remember to turn on their O2?

[Cybermat47]

Nah, I don't see it as a necessary feature.

 

I also don't think that it's necessary, but it sure would help with immersion.

[Feathered_IV]

It's an excellent idea.  As relevant to flight simulation as fuel mixture is to engine management.

[Skoshi_Tiger]

From tables I looked at  20,000' you get about 10 minutes useful consciousness, but this rapidly decreases to 3 minutes at 25,000' and only 75 seconds at 30,000'. A working O2 systems should be a major tactical advantage under these conditions. To me its as relevant as blacking or reding out under High +ve and -ve G's. I know it is at the upper end of the envelope of heights at which planes in this sim should operate at but high altitude combat did occur and does happen in combat flight sim servers.

 

As said by others height is an advantage.

[Feathered_IV]

Fumbling for the keyboard to turn the oxygen up to emergency to avoid blacking out would be rather fun.

[Venturi]

Maybe subjectively you didn't notice it. That is the point of the excercise you went through - that despite your subjective "observations", objectively there is a major difference. From a computer simulation point of view, immediately there is a lack of partial pressure of oxygen at altitudes at which your blood oxygen level drops below a functional point, say mid 80s% hemoglobin saturation, your performance as a pilot will suffer. I have quite a bit of professional experience with this subject. I'll leave it at that.

 

 

"Dunno where you get your figures from - but I'm speaking from experience. That is I have been to 20,000' without supplemental oxygen (in a hypobaric chamber) and am quite familiar with the effects.

You don't "know it" within a minute."

[Requiem]

 

 

 Oops, I meant 15,000'. 20,000' is the alt we trained at, the symptoms of which I was leading to. At 20'000 I never lost consciousness even after 10 minutes, although I was well and truly impaired by 10. Never had blurry vision either, but I did lose colour vision. Exertion did accelerate symptomatic onset, but not by a factor of 10.

 

Dunno where you get your figures from - but I'm speaking from experience. That is I have been to 20,000' without supplemental oxygen (in a hypobaric chamber) and am quite familiar with the effects.

You don't "know it" within a minute.

 

As for "losing O2 at 20K" - the partial pressure of O2 decreases from sea level. Above 10,000' almost all people require supplemental oxygen.

And as for the symptoms - as I said earlier, while there are symptoms in common among individuals, their perception varies - with the obvious exception of death.

 

The onset is subtle, particularly with aircraft incapable of high rates of climb.

We actually lost a Hornet pilot in the 90's to hypoxia - he never knew what happened to him.

 

The symptoms of hypoxia appeared humorous first off when I first saw videos of how people bumbled around with tasks in hypobaric chambers, but I've heard the tape of that Hornet incident you're referring to, and the reality was very sobering and gut wrenching to hear. Death without even realising or caring about it while it is happening is just strange to fathom. 

 

In RoF I came up with a basic way of modeling hypoxia using the Mission Editor, but that only worked because it activated above certain altitudes and the WWI pilots didn't really use oxygen like in WWII (It was basically a black overlay with transparency that got worse over time/altitude). Since the WWII pilots have oxygen to counter the effects it would have to be hard coded by the devs in BoS. I believe DCS models the effects of hypoxia simple enough, so maybe something like how they do it would suffice, but with the way things are online I doubt that fights are going to take place at high altitudes long enough to warrant developing it. 

 

About 3:50 seconds is where hypoxia starts having a visual effect.

 

[johncage]

yeah well the pilots didn't have keyboards to stowe the landing gear or lower the flaps either. what's your point?

[FlatSpinMan]

The point should be fairly self-evident if you read the thread. Enough with your derisive, aggressive comments. They're completely unnecessary and will not be tolerated.

[HagarTheHorrible]

Wasn't Stanford Tuck a victim of hypoxia, or it might have been "Hoppy" Hopkins ?

[Crump]

 

 

 Oops, I meant 15,000'. 20,000' is the alt we trained at, the symptoms of which I was leading to. At 20'000 I never lost consciousness even after 10 minutes, although I was well and truly impaired by 10. Never had blurry vision either, but I did lose colour vision. Exertion did accelerate symptomatic onset, but not by a factor of 10.

 

Dunno where you get your figures from - but I'm speaking from experience. That is I have been to 20,000' without supplemental oxygen (in a hypobaric chamber) and am quite familiar with the effects.

You don't "know it" within a minute.

 

As for "losing O2 at 20K" - the partial pressure of O2 decreases from sea level. Above 10,000' almost all people require supplemental oxygen.

And as for the symptoms - as I said earlier, while there are symptoms in common among individuals, their perception varies - with the obvious exception of death.

 

 

The onset is subtle, particularly with aircraft incapable of high rates of climb.

We actually lost a Hornet pilot in the 90's to hypoxia - he never knew what happened to him.

 

 

 

http://www.skybrary.aero/index.php/Hypoxia_(OGHFA_BN)

 

There is a huge difference between sitting on your behind in an altitude chamber and performing strenuous exercise at altitude such as a HALO operation or a dogfight.

 

The onset of hypoxia is not subtle although some individuals become euphoric.  Euphoria is the most dangerous symptom because the victim is in denial there is anything wrong.

 

4.4 Critical Stage, above 5,500 m (18,000 ft)

Above this altitude, complete incapacitation can occur with little or no warning. All senses fail, and a pilot will become unconscious within a very short period of time. No stimuli such as the radio will be able to help a pilot suffering from hypoxia, especially fulminant hypoxia, above 5,500 meters (18,000 feet).

 

 

You can see that with moderate exercise, the Time of Useful Consciousness is cut in half at 21,000 feet to just 5 minutes.  After 5 minutes, the subject is unconscious.  I was taught in HAP training, this is not an average number, this a 100% mark much like the O2 toxicity clock.  The NOAA tables give you a time at a partial pressure or depth representing the 100% mark for a CNS O2 hit.  80% of that time is the maximum limit of exposure.

 

 

Symptom onset is almost immediate and you do not plan to come near that limit if you have to come off oxygen at altitude.

 

Rapid decompression and moderate exercise reduces this 100% mark to just 2.5 minutes.  In other words, the 50% mark is about 45 seconds of useful consciousness.

Edited April 30, 2014 by Crump

[Crump]

Here is the full link with the tables for Time of Useful Consciousness.

 

http://www.skybrary.aero/index.php/Hypoxia_(OGHFA_BN)

 

You have to manually add the last parenthesis as the hyperlink did not copy it.

[NZTyphoon]

Don't know if this has already been covered, but a simple key word search didn't get any hits.

 

Should hypoxia be included as part of the difficulty settings, so, for example, on full real it might be necessary to turn on oxygen at a certain altitude to prevent hypoxia or if the oxygen system is damaged in combat ?

 

Symptoms of hypoxia might be an increasing delay in reaction times or a gradual blurring out, nothing too obvious to start with but dangerous if ignored or unrecognised.

 

I suppose one of the arguments against might be that flights are generally so short that conservation of supply is not a consideration.

 

As it was, over Russia there were few combat operations that went over 10,000 feet, so the likelihood of hypoxia being a threat was low. Would it be worth asking the developers to include a feature that would so rarely be used or encountered?

 

Secondly, what parameters would be used by the program to trigger the symptoms of hypoxia?

[TheNotoriousFNG]

As it was, over Russia there were few combat operations that went over 10,000 feet, so the likelihood of hypoxia being a threat was low. Would it be worth asking the developers to include a feature that would so rarely be used or encountered?

 

Secondly, what parameters would be used by the program to trigger the symptoms of hypoxia?

 

Maybe not high on the list of things to take care of but for the future, it might be worth the invested time - especially if the sim takes trips to different theaters where combat took place at high altitude.

 

I like the OP's idea, but I'd rather certain other features be added first.

[Dave]

 

There is a huge difference between sitting on your behind in an altitude chamber and performing strenuous exercise at altitude such as a HALO operation or a dogfight.

...

The onset of hypoxia is not subtle although some individuals become euphoric.

...

4.4 Critical Stage, above 5,500 m (18,000 ft)

Above this altitude, complete incapacitation can occur with little or no warning. All senses fail, and a pilot will become unconscious within a very short period of time. No stimuli such as the radio will be able to help a pilot suffering from hypoxia, especially fulminant hypoxia, above 5,500 meters (18,000 feet).

We were doing physical and mental exercises actually. I don't need schooling on the fatiguing effects of hard maneuvering - I've been there done that got the t-shirt. I can't quote what it was like to experience hypoxia during ACM because I was never stupid enough to find out.

I also had the disturbing experience of listening to the recording of a death by hypoxia within one of our squadrons, while the other guys in his flight tried to get him to put his mask on. He wasn't euphoric - he simply didn't know it was happening. Fortunately we only had one such incident during my time in the RAAF so you could argue my sample set is rather small.

Your quote is consistent with what you read elsewhere - it doesn't change my personal experience. I can only tell you what I know.

 

To reiterate my view on this suggestion - nice idea but difficult to represent and model given the largely cognitive nature of the effects and, given the limited opportunity within a typical game of inducing the effects, it falls a long way behind dozens of much higher priority enhancements IMHO.

[Crump]

 

Your quote is consistent with what you read elsewhere - it doesn't change my personal experience. I can only tell you what I know.

 

It is not "what I read elsewhere".....it is personal experience. 

 

I am the diving exit at 24 seconds...the guy in yellow not the grey suited instructor.  Yes, the students wore yellow as it helped hide up the piss stains.  That is the first and fourth Jumps at HALO school.  I was fortunate in that I was already an A licensed skydiver before being sent to HALO school.  I hit all my gates for slick jumps on the first one so my time is HALO school was pretty relaxed compared to guys who stepped out of airplane at 12,500 feet for the very first time after some wind tunnel work. 

 

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zib5el60gk

 

BTW, the poor guy being filmed did not make it thru the course.  It was concluded that his cognitive functions were being effected by hypoxia and stress at altitude.  You can see the instructor issuing commands for him to execute that are subsequently ignored.  It was not a good thing for them to send the camera guy up with you.  He would have ended up like your squadron mate or worse yet, possibly killing someone else.

 

HAP card out of my wallet with all personal information removed so it does not violate forum rules.

 

 

 

 

I also had the disturbing experience of listening to the recording of a death by hypoxia within one of our squadrons, while the other guys in his flight tried to get him to put his mask on. He wasn't euphoric - he simply didn't know it was happening.

 

Sorry to hear about the death of an allied serviceman.  It sucks and my heart goes out to all those effected.

 

What you describe is typical of a fatal hypoxia encounter. 

 

 

4.3 Partial Compensatory Stage, 3,500 - 6,000 m (11,400 - 20,000 ft)

Between these altitudes, a drastic increase in breathing is needed to maintain proper cardiovascular function. Nervous system functioning begins to degrade, but there can also be great individual variability in the symptoms for a given altitude.

Cognitive disturbances are typical at these altitudes. They are characterized by two main components:

• Loss of self-monitoring and cognitive feedback
• Difficulty in thinking

The absence of self-monitoring makes it impossible for an individual to recognize whether his or her actions are hazardous. This, combined with slow thinking, can be extremely dangerous. Many times fixation occurs or there is a tendency to repeat an action without realizing that the action was just completed moments before. Judgment becomes extremely poor and physical movement becomes uncoordinated.

A pilot often will have trouble concentrating or may have difficulty reading instruments. Delayed and/or imprecise communications may result. Frequently, alterations in a pilot’s voice are the first signs that something is wrong. An example is when a pilot attempts to deliver altitude information to the controller, but there is a noticeable delay and the pilot has a lazy, dull tone to his or her voice. Many potential accidents have been prevented when a controller recognizes these symptoms and notifies the pilot of the need to take corrective action.

Such situations demonstrate the importance of knowing the symptoms of hypoxia and the correct actions that must be taken to resolve the situation. In a case such as the one described above, it is important that the controller use strong instructions to the pilot to take corrective action. Because the crew may already be impaired by hypoxia, they may have to be convinced that there actually is a problem.

 

Altitude effects on a human physiology begin to manifest themselves at altitudes lower than 10,000 feet.

 

 

4.2 Complete Compensatory Stage, 1,500 - 3,500 m (5,000 - 11,400 ft)

Visual sensitivity at night is decreased by 10 percent at 1,500 m (5,000 ft) and by 30 percent at 3,000 m (10,000 ft). Performance of new tasks may be impaired due to memory issues. The nervous system, however, is able to maintain its primary functions and performance, for the most part, is unaffected.

 

http://www.skybrary.aero/index.php/Hypoxia_(OGHFA_BN)

 

Dave Says:

 

largely cognitive nature of the effects

 

 

 

The physiological effects of altitude is part of simulating air combat and a vital inclusion into the game.  The cognitive functions can be simulated.  I am sure the developers are able to figure out a way.  I would suggest looking at the suppression models of many of the first person shooter games or some of the effects in use in DCS for a baseline.

 

The effects are more than just cognitive however and represent very real limits.

 

One of the most important physiological effects is that GLOC becomes much more likely and our ability to compensate for acceleration effects is very much effected by altitude.  Inclusion of realistic physiological effects will reduce gamey behaviors seen in typical air combat simulations.  You won't see the 6-8G dive recoveries typically found in most games nor will you see the 5 minutes of turning at 3 or more G's. 

 

The classic acceleration exposure chart is based upon a relaxed individual siting upright at sea level and assumes a theoretical infinite exposure onset rate. 

 

 

What it does not include and serves to lower these baseline acceleration exposure limits are:

 

1.  Stress

2. Altitude - Hypoxia lowers acceleration tolerances

3.  Gradual Onset Rates (the "turn and burn" crowd would be effected by a reduction in the amount of time they could sustain low exposure accelerations...gone would be the gamey turning at 3G for an unlimited amount of time)

 

What is not included that serves to raise the acceleration exposure limits are:

 

1.  Anti-G Straining Maneuvers - Came into use during World War II

2.  Oxygen use (raises tolerance ~ .5G with Low pressure On demand and even more with Pressure Breather Apparatus)

3.  G-Suit

4.  Rapid Onset Rates (higher G exposure limit with more severe acceleration effects - gone would be the gamey 6G (+) "boom and zoom" attacks from low earth orbit)

5. Inclined Seating Position - large effect on G- tolerance, see picture below:

 

 

I would attach the entire High G Physiology Protection Report from NATO but it is too big for forum attachment limits.

 

Realistic physiology will only improve the game making the combat simulation more realistic and more fun as it will compress the fights to closer quarters giving more options to all players. 

Edited May 1, 2014 by Crump

[MiloMorai]

Everyone knows your name Gene. That could be anyones HAP card.

 

I was the first one out of the a/c in the video.

[Venturi]

All male piloting machismo, politics, and posturing aside, Crump is right. Whether or not that matters, here, among you, is a different story.

 

I'm not holding my breath, because you know, in the real world, no oxygen is a bad thing.

[DD_bongodriver]

All male piloting machismo, politics, and posturing aside, Crump is right.

 

Well he is not right or wrong in this case, everybody has personal experiences, the rest of your observations about him are spot on though.

[Bearcat]

I also don't think that it's necessary, but it sure would help with immersion.

 

 

I agree.. more options are always better than less... but I think that right now they are concentrating on just putting out the best product they can.. I would not be surprised if a lot of the stuff that is off the table or waiting for a burner... become possible once this series takes off.. One of the things that I really like and appreciate about this team is the focus on the primary task at hand.. Not too much feature creep going on here.. The progress has been great and I have to chuckle when I look at some of the posts from some folks in the first 6 months of this forum.. who were so negative and almost wishing that this would be a bust but it is shaping up quite nicely and even if there are delays up ahead that we as the customers cannot foresee,  in the 15 years I have been seriously involved with sims and the whole new product thing.. this has been the most consistent and on the ball roll out from start to finish I have ever seen.... I don't know about what the future holds for some other projects out there.. but for BoS the future looks very bright. Especially in the morning sun .. with all that snow......

[Crump]

Everyone knows your name Gene. That could be anyones HAP card.

 

I was the first one out of the a/c in the video.

 

Ok....but you were not in the video!  I was though. 

 

[Venturi]

Bottom line oxygen delivery systems can be damaged and if one is, it will drastically limit the effective envelope of the pilot/plane combo. And I regularly go above 3km on the server. Most good pilots do, I have observed, and why not, given the current lack of incentive to stay at realistic heights. In Clod most pilots start at 3-4km and it goes up from there. If you want realism rather than simply a game, the designers must impose the same constraints, within reasonable bounds, that the original pilots were subject to. Oxygen was the number one consideration that kept pilots at or below 3km. This is a major consideration in the eastern front. The Germans regularly patrolled their fighters at this height. Why? Because it is the highest that one can go without using o2 supplies up, and still have pilot effectiveness. In fact, the real reason why fighters had to be able to go above 3km was for strategic bomber interception, something people in this thread have stated, over and again, and correctly, that was not occurring on the eastern front regularly. It is this need for the ability to intercept at high altitude that made going to all the trouble of supplying heavy and cumbersome oxygen systems worth it. Let's keep in mind these fighter designs fought to eliminate all superfluous weight. It was not because the fighters "just had to go that high whenever the pilot wanted".

 

If you want a sim, let's have a sim, and do it right.

[DD_bongodriver]

That's up to the devs and their budget.

[NZTyphoon]

That's up to the devs and their budget.

 

+1: As has already been mentioned the developers are concentrating on getting the basics sorted properly before adding any extras which will probably never be fully developed or experienced, unless the players construct virtual cockpits/pressure chambers, complete with an oxygen supply that can be cut off at random by the computer to simulate damage to the system or a neglectful gamer who forget to wear the mask.

[Crump]

Again, all these same arguments were used against suppression models in first person shooters.  Now, suppression models are industry standard. 

 

There is enough data on averages and limits to build a very good model of pilot physiology.

[DD_bongodriver]

What do you mean by suppression models?

[NZTyphoon]

What do you mean by suppression models?

Well there's this Brick Suppression   game where the player uses balls hit by a paddle to break bricks: http://brick-supression.fupa.com/ 

 

or there's this:

 

 

By using a lexical decision task, we found that aggressive concepts are activated by priming the content of FPS but suppressed afterward. Only if participants were instructed to actively suppress aggressive concepts after priming, thought suppression was no longer necessary.

 

from http://www.researchgate.net/publication/224767675_Defending_the_doomed_implicit_strategies_concerning_protection_of_first-person_shooter_games

 

or there's: http://www.bial.com/imagem/37_Grant%20106-10.pdf

 

 

Results:

Significant suppression and generalized suppression was found for all response measures and for a post-experimental measure of CS-US awareness.

Suppression generalized to cues indirectly related to the trained CS via acquired equivalence, symmetry and stimulus equivalence.

Conclusions: The present findings demonstrate, for the first time, unequivocal evidence of conditioned and generalized suppression in humans using a novel virtual reality task.

 

 

Otherwise we have nada, but doubtless Crump will find something to entertain and inform us all.

[Requiem]

What do you mean by suppression models?

He means when you shoot in someone's direction it affects that target's ability to see and shoot accurately back at you. Ie - "Suppressing fire!!"

(I think)

Edited May 2, 2014 by SYN_Requiem

[DD_bongodriver]

He means when you shoot in someone's direction it affects that target's ability to see and shoot accurately back at you. Ie - "Suppressing fire!!"

(I think)

 

 

Really? but that makes no sense whatsoever, suppressing fire doesn't affect your eyesight or aim, if you decide to break cover when under supressing fire as long as you don't get hit then you should be able to see and aim as normal.

[Requiem]

From my experience suppression is implemented in FPS as a psychological effect for the player being shot at. It's a good game-mechanic because it encourages you to use cover and not think you're Rambo. Without the mechanic you end up with people standing out in the open with bullets whizzing past them without a care in the world shooting back at you.

 

BF4 uses suppression pretty well compared to BF3:

 

[DD_bongodriver]

So it's an enforced 'magical' effect designed to make players behave realistically, despite the fact these types of games bear little resemblance to reality, it makes you dizzy watching players on online FPS shooters whizzing about like fleas on amphetamines.

 

is this implemented on all FPS shooters or only on the BF series?

[LukeFF]

So it's an enforced 'magical' effect designed to make players behave realistically, despite the fact these types of games bear little resemblance to reality, it makes you dizzy watching players on online FPS shooters whizzing about like fleas on amphetamines.

 

is this implemented on all FPS shooters or only on the BF series?

 

Red Orchestra has it as well.

[Crump]

 

 players behave realistically

 

Now you have a simulation........

 

That is why I like CLoD, it makes you think about managing the engine and the aircraft.  In otherwords, the player has to behave realistically.

 

A high fidelity pilot physiology model is key to aerial combat simulation.  The fact is the man is more of a limitation on performance than the machine during World War II air combat.

 

Let's look at the requirements for a modern fighter pilot:

 

 

2.1. Overview. A timely, effective AGSM is crucial to survival in the sustained high-G environment.

This program provides students basic G-awareness and AGSM skills which are reinforced during daily

flight training.

2.2. Purpose. UFT centrifuge training exposes students selected for the fighter track to the demands of

sustained high-G flight. While the primary purpose of this training is to refine the aircrews’ AGSM in a

controlled environment, the demands of the centrifuge also reinforce the importance of physical and mental

preparation necessary in the high-G environment. This training is familiarization only – no pass/fail

standard needs to be achieved.

 

 

2.3. Requirements. All students identified for training according to AETC Syllabus P-V4A-A, Specialized

Undergraduate Pilot Training (T-38), Fighter/Bomber, and USAF students identified for training

in CNATRAINST 1542.121, Advanced NFO/AFNAV Strike/Fighter, will attend this training.

 

2.4. Academic Instruction. Conduct a minimum of 1 hour of platform academic instruction detailing

proper AGSM execution and protection offered by current anti-G equipment. Accomplish a comprehensive

video debrief with all students after exposure to centrifuge training profiles.

 

2.5. Centrifuge Profiles. All aircrew will train in the 13-degree seat. Accomplish the following training

profiles in the order listed:

 

2.5.1. First Profile. Gradual onset run to 4 Gs for 20 seconds. The purpose of this run is to stimulate

the cardiovascular reflex and acquaint the student with the anti-G suit. The anti-G suit will be turned

on for this and all subsequent runs.

 

2.5.2. Second Profile. Moderate onset run to 5 Gs for 30 seconds. The purpose of this run is to practice

the AGSM at a reduce onset rate.

 

2.5.3. Third Profile. Rapid onset run to 6 Gs for 30 seconds. The purpose of this run is to further

practice the AGSM at a rapid onset rate

 

2.5.4. Rapid onset run to 7.5 Gs for 15 seconds. The purpose of this run is to establish aircrew confidence

in their ability to operate in the high-G environment.

 

2.5.5. Fifth Profile. Rapid onset run to 6 Gs for 10 seconds in the “check six” position.

 

http://webapp1.dlib.indiana.edu/virtual_disk_library/index.cgi/821003/FID577/pubs/af/11/afi11-404/afi11-404.pdf

 

Think about those profiles, all done in a relaxed environment with an Anti-G suit, AGSM, and with only one Gradual Onset Rate profile. 

 

Compare that to the typical G profiles found in aerial combat games at a time when G suit's were not in use and AGSM was in its infancy.  It is pretty easy to see most "aerial combat sim" fans have not really been simulating much of anything without a high fidelity pilot physiological model.