Keep safe everybody

[Cybermat47]

Ok, as we all know, the Russian Federation is currently taking military action against the Ukraine.

 

I don't want to cause unnecessary panic, but as we all know there is the very real possibility that the situation could escalate into a war between Russia and the EU/NATO.

 

There is also the possibility that this could result in a global exchange of nuclear warheads.

 

Although I'm only 14 years old, and have much to learn about the world, I know that in a nuclear war, there can be no winners. Everybody loses. The lucky ones die from the outset. In the weeks after a nuclear war, the land dries up, the sun will not be seen for 10 years as nuclear winter blankets the world, and life simply stops.

 

I just want to wish good luck to everyone here, no matter what country you're from, no matter which side you've taken. Please, everybody, stay safe.

 

And let's hope that I'm just being overly paranoid.

 

I'm also watching Threads right now. That's sure to help.

[Cybermat47]

I'm copying this post to most, if not all, the forums I participate in.

[Mastermariner]

No my friend, Russia is not taking military action against Ukraine or Crimea. The situation is far from good and safe but it's mostly just the western press that takes the opportunity to further demonize Russia and to gain some economical  advantages.

 

You realy need to read and watch some news sources that gives a different view on the situation.

Try RT.com, Rianovosti, voiceofrussia etc.

 

Good luck and don't worry!

 

Master

[ShamrockOneFive]

It's a dangerous situation, it has the potential to spiral out of control, but I suspect it will not. All sides of this are playing for big stakes but all of them are fairly cool heads. Even Putin, who has to some degree been demonized by the western media. To some extent it appears (from what I've heard anyways... ) that the Russian media is busy doing the same to certain western leaders and to the new interim government in the Ukraine. Remember in all conflicts that the first casualty is always the truth.

 

Far and away a difficult situation and very complex but I am pleased that at least we've seen no bloodshed to date. I do hope there can be some sort of resolution rather than escalation. But I don't see Russia backing away from the Crimea now even if the pretext to move in was made on what appears to be fairly flimsy reasons. The base at Sevastopol is just too important.

[Cybermat47]

You realy need to read and watch some news sources that gives a different view on the situation.

Try RT.com, Rianovosti, voiceofrussia etc.

 

Good luck and don't worry!

 

Master

Thank you.

 

The good thing about the Internet in a situation like this is that we can look at both points of view.

[SYN_Mike77]

Here's a deal I see as doable:  There will be a plebicite attached to the May elections in Ukraine on the question of Crimea (giving the Crimean people the choice of staying in the Ukraine or going back to Russia)  Crimea will vote overwhelmingly to go back to Russia.  In exchange Russia will respect the Ukrainian mainland.  Russia gets what it must have (Crimea). The Crimeans will be back with their native land. Ukraine loses what would be an ungovernable province but gains secure borders.  The West gets to say, democracy in action!  Everyone gets part of what they want, nobody else dies.

Edited March 6, 2014 by SYN_Mike77

[LLv44_Mprhead]

No my friend, Russia is not taking military action against Ukraine or Crimea. The situation is far from good and safe but it's mostly just the western press that takes the opportunity to further demonize Russia and to gain some economical  advantages.

 

You realy need to read and watch some news sources that gives a different view on the situation.

Try RT.com, Rianovosti, voiceofrussia etc.

 

Good luck and don't worry!

 

Master

 

Hmm, I think that if a state sends it troops to occupy targets in other country's territory, it counts as taking military action. About RT etc. if you really believe those are the sources you get better and more objective view, well... words fail me.

 

About Putin/Russia beeing demonized, maybe somewhere they are, but it doesn't remove the fact that Russia has invaded an other country, nor the fact that the script in Crimea is exactly the same that the one used 2008 in Georgia. In that time more people bought the story, this time it doesn't seem to be happening. Also fact is that Putin has stated collapse of Soviet Union being the greatest geo-political tragedy of 20th century, and he is dreaming of making all those countries that gained independence at that time part of Russia once more.

[Bladderburst]

The cold war is over. Escalation is really a worst case scenario that will not happen.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQo0BQM3OlQ

This is the closest you will see of nuclear war in your lifetime. (fullmovie 12 parts)

Edited March 6, 2014 by Boussourir

[LLv44_Mprhead]

The cold war was over... http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2014/03/04/welcome_to_cold_war_ii  About the current crisis in Crimea, I don't think that it will escalate to hot war for now and it certainly won't go nuclear.

[Nufsed]

As I lived through the original "Cold War" I think I'm qualified to give an opinion of current events. If you are a US citizen how would you feel if Canada joined the Warsaw Pact? If you are a British citizen how would you feel if Scotland joined the Warsaw Pact, the same goes for our French and German friends? So imagine how it looks from the Russian perspective. For the last 15 years at least the West ( led by the USA and her interests) have been engaged in nothing short of colonialism, ironically they fought the only war that they ever won to throw off the shackles of the British Empire! I have seen "many" politicians come and go over the years and of all of those men and women there has only been one that I have a good "gut" feeling about.....His name is Vladimir Putin.

[LLv44_Mprhead]

As I lived through the original "Cold War" I think I'm qualified to give an opinion of current events. If you are a US citizen how would you feel if Canada joined the Warsaw Pact? If you are a British citizen how would you feel if Scotland joined the Warsaw Pact, the same goes for our French and German friends? So imagine how it looks from the Russian perspective. For the last 15 years at least the West ( led by the USA and her interests) have been engaged in nothing short of colonialism, ironically they fought the only war that they ever won to throw off the shackles of the British Empire! I have seen "many" politicians come and go over the years and of all of those men and women there has only been one that I have a good "gut" feeling about.....His name is Vladimir Putin.

 

You saying that only war US ever won, was the war of indepence? About your comparisong Scotland joining the Warsaw Pact... the thing is, these countries in eastern europe are independent and they have the right to do their own decisions. Have you btw given any thought why Poland, Czechs, Slovaks, Hungary, Rumania, Bulgaria, Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia all joined the Nato when they could? Maybe they were all brainwashed by fascists?

[Rama]

One sure thing is that, whatever happen in Ukraine, no EU nation will try any military action against Russia, so there's no possible war between EU and Russia... and that's something Putin knows perfectly. Still, he can't be too agressive and offensive in Ukraine, or he take the risk of economic sanctions... and that's something the Russian economie can't afford.

[Nufsed]

You saying that only war US ever won, was the war of indepence? About your comparisong Scotland joining the Warsaw Pact... the thing is, these countries in eastern europe are independent and they have the right to do their own decisions. Have you btw given any thought why Poland, Czechs, Slovaks, Hungary, Rumania, Bulgaria, Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia all joined the Nato when they could? Maybe they were all brainwashed by fascists?

Yes, America has only ever won the "War of Independence". It "helped" the allies to win WW2. Remember as a country the USA is only a teenager by comparison to the rest of the World.

They did it as a reaction towards the old soviet regime. The Russian Federation is "not" the USSR. And yes some to a greater or lesser degree are brainwashed by our modern media, it just depends from which perspective you are looking at it. When the state puts profit along with favoritism, above the welfare of the people, then that state becomes fascist. and the West is a lot further along that road than than any of us should wish!

[Rama]

Yes, America has only ever won the "War of Independence". It "helped" the allies to win WW2.

Well... so you don't know that between 1941 and 1945 there was a big scale war between USA and Japan?

[SYN_Jedders]

Ermmm...think there were a few other countries involved other than the U.S. and Japan. Yet again the facts are the first casualty.

[Allons]

Pls lets have at least one forum free of useless rumors & fictions about the ukrainian theater..

[Reflected]

Guys, no need to worry, there will be no war. Putin already reached his goals: gas prices are soaring. The rest is a theatral act. West demonizing Putin, Russia demonizing the West...we've all seen this before a 1000 times.

 

I'm only worried about Ukranian common people who might suffer because of this board game of the big guys.

[LLv44_Mprhead]

Ermmm...think there were a few other countries involved other than the U.S. and Japan. Yet again the facts are the first casualty.

 

Yep, it was the British who won the war against Japan, with maybe marginal help from US

 

 

Pls lets have at least one forum free of useless rumors & fictions about the ukrainian theater..

 

Don't know what you mean by rumors & fictions, but I actually woudn't mind seeing this thread locked and subject of crisis in Ukraine being left to other forums. I think I will not comment on this anymore anyways.

[Reflected]

By the way it's a little funny that while the leaders of the East and West are growling at each other, a Russian-American company is busy developing the best flight sim on the market 

[Emgy]

We in NATO promised to Gorbachev: no expanding NATO to Russia's borders (apart from the Norwegian border.)  Then the Baltics joined.

 

Btw cybermat, no you don't have to worry.

Edited March 6, 2014 by Calvamos

[DD_Arthur]

This;

 

One sure thing is that, whatever happen in Ukraine, no EU nation will try any military action against Russia, so there's no possible war between EU and Russia... and that's something Putin knows perfectly. Still, he can't be too agressive and offensive in Ukraine, or he take the risk of economic sanctions... and that's something the Russian economie can't afford.

 

And this;

 

 

I'm only worried about Ukranian common people who might suffer because of this board game of the big guys.

 

Don't worry Cybermat.  Ain't gonna be no "On the Beach" scenerio any time soon.

[Rama]

Ermmm...think there were a few other countries involved other than the U.S. and Japan. Yet again the facts are the first casualty.

Of course, but pretenting that USA just "helped"the allies to win WW2 is negating the reality of the pacific theater... and that was the post I was answering to.

[6S.Manu]

If Putin was a little smarter he could have claimed that Ukraine had WoMDs and was going to use them. (I'm trolling hard, I know)   

Anyway I don't have an opinion about it: I really don't know the real situation and probably I'll never know it.

[Bladderburst]

Pipelines going through Ukraine...

[SYN_Mike77]

The only war America ever won was the War for Independence? I think Mexico and Spain would be glad to hear this! On the other hand,

there are a good deal of African Americans living in about a dozen of the southern states that will be quite dismayed at this news.

[SYN_Mike77]

I want it on record that I floated the idea that a referendum on Crimea joining Russia before said referendum was announced!

[Cybermat47]

Pls lets have at least one forum free of useless rumors & fictions about the ukrainian theater..

What useless fictions and rumors? I just said that Russia has taken military's action against the Ukraine, and that there's a possibility of WWIII starting (as there is whenever Russian and NATO interests clash). I didn't say that Putin is the next Stalin, or that the Ukraine's government are Nazis. I'm just saying what I know, and leaving what I think out of it.

The only war America ever won was the War for Independence? I think Mexico and Spain would be glad to hear this! On the other hand,there are a good deal of African Americans living in about a dozen of the southern states that will be quite dismayed at this news.

Wait, your location is wrong. Isn't Kentucky in the CSA?

 

Now if you'll excuse me, I have to talk to some of my Texan - sorry, I mean Mexican, friends.

[SYN_Mike77]

Kentucky did not leave the Union.  It was one of the slave states that stayed in.  The county that I live in which is right on the border with Tennessee had a split of 980 that fought for the Union vs 8 who fought for the CSA. 

 

Mike

Edited March 6, 2014 by SYN_Mike77

[taleks]

I just said that Russia has taken military's action against the Ukraine,

It is not correct. And I hope it will not be.

There are too many families sharing relatives from Russia and Ukraine. Probably it is the reason why no blood have been shed in Crimea yet.

 

Some my personal thoughts on this matter:

1. Russia's government actions in Crimea are unreasonable. There were no any real threats to Russians in Ukraine or Crimea as part of Ukraine. Yes, there were some nationalists talking the same bullshit nationalists talk in any country, but these radical ideas are not supported by majority of citizens.

2. In my opinion, Russian Army have betrayed Russian soldiers, saying "no any Russian troop participate in Crimean events". It is clear, that the most of "unidentified self-defense forces" are not civilians. Russian troops should be located at our military objects only, but they are out of there. That is simply wrong.

3. Russian and Ukrainian citizens are just pawns in government and politican games. Both main parties - Russian and Ukrainian (new and old) governments  are not saints and doing everything to escalate conflict. Propaganda brainwashes all sides of conflict, no solid evidence/information is provided by observers.

4. It was not good deed to start issuing of Russian passports for Ukrainian special operations unit Berkut. However it was not good deed to dismiss this unit by Ukrainian new government. Mostly, theirs actions during Maidan events were reasonable. It is not clear yet who is to blame for dead protestors and policemen.

5. Crimea autonomy/independence/joining Russia referendum is not legitimate as well as Yanukovich impeachment. Rada is legitimate, but it should be more careful and accurate with decisions.

6. Russian corrupted politicians are ready to say "yes" to any action of our president without thinking about Federation citizens. And that is the scariest point for all Russians, cause it is difficult to say if those politicians are completely crazy or not yet.

7. Crisis should be resolved by joint actions of Russia/Ukraine with patronage by EU (well, let's say honestly - mainly not EU, but Germany). USA is not appropriate for this role due state of Russia-USA relations now. Both sides must obey earlier reached agreements, which were partly violated by Ukraine, and Budapest Act that was IMHO partly violated but not admitted by Russia.

8. Putin have his logics and gained strong position, it'll not be easy to persuade him. It seems he wants to bargain with others for something. And other  countries must be ready to bargain.

9. In the worst case, no country will escalate war with Russia in place of Ukraine. However economical impact would be too heavy for Russia to bear, political consequences are bad already. Powers balance will be shattered more. However, no nuclear war is expected, so there is no need to be afraid yet.

[Picchio]

Thank you, Taleks.

[FlatSpinMan]

This thread is being watched carefully so consider any comment very, very carefully before posting.

This forum is a very international one, with accordingly different points of view on many issues.

[79_vRAF_Friendly_flyer]

Very good analysis Taleks. You are right, there are no saints in this conflict, and it won't be easy to solve. Let's hope cool heads prevail and no-one start shooting.

 

@Raaaid: I was a teenager in the 80s, "Dancing with tears in my eyes" was the first thing that sprang to mind with me too!

[Mac_Messer]

Considering that Putin sent Russia`s military forces to Crimea, the socalled West is being pretty silly with their warranties from 1994.

 

Sending the military to derail any kind of unity amongst the Ukrainian people also doesn`t help.

Edited March 7, 2014 by Mac_Messer

[SYN_Mike77]

Re Taleks comment:  How sad is it that I find the best most even handed analysis of this situation on a flight sim board?  I wont find anything close to that good from American news sources!

[Reflected]

Re Taleks comment:  How sad is it that I find the best most even handed analysis of this situation on a flight sim board?  I wont find anything close to that good from American news sources!

 

Agreed! You'd be surprised by all the BS pouring out from our media... I'm proud of us here 

[Bladderburst]

Thanks Talek, good perspective on the conflict.

[Cybermat47]

Good post Taleks.

 

Sorry if I overreacted guys, but having not grown up in the Cold War, it was a but jarring when I fully realised "Oh crap. Nuclear war would destroy humanity."

Edited March 7, 2014 by [AJSA]_Cybermat47

[6./ZG26_Emil]

In my opinion (non-Russian) the Russians have a valid point even if they've not acted in the best way. Crimea is more Russian that Ukrainian and it was part of Russian until 1954 when Krushchev gave it away to the Ukraine as a gift. I know there is a lot more history than that (not to mention the displacement of the Tartars) but ethnically it appears Russian in my eyes.

 

Personally it sickens me to see the frenzied media attacks on the Russians where we lost any moral high ground many years ago after our medelling in Iraq, North Africa etc.

[Bladderburst]

You can't, the sky is a dome, remember?

[76SQN-FatherTed]

This thread is being watched carefully so consider any comment very, very carefully before posting.

This forum is a very international one, with accordingly different points of view on many issues.

I appreciate that you have a job to do, but I actually think that (as long as everyone is polite), this is quite a valuable resource for us all to see those differing points of view.  As others have pointed out, our various news agencies will no doubt have put some sort of spin on things, so to hear opinions from "ordinary" Russians is a  good thing.