Razorback Posted March 5, 2014 Posted March 5, 2014 My last MS FF2 finally gave it up, only a few buttons that I can eventually rewire. I had a perceived epiphany : ) As a pilot I was thrilled with being able to feel the edge of the stall, and compression of high speed. Now I think the biggest flaw in FF sticks is gearing, and motors. I also feel that not nearly enough has been done for FF fans, aside from G940. My idea is a stick of Warthog quality, that has FF. To achieve this I have been looking into micro hydraulics. This would in theory work perfect for flight control feedback, simple resistance no springs,gears,or motors....well. One small motor for pump. Personally I could not care less about recoil effects. Perhaps this has been done, if not It certainly seems doable
O_catarM Posted March 5, 2014 Posted March 5, 2014 We definitely need something like G940 but better build quality.I own G940 and can't imagine flying without FFB
TX-EcoDragon Posted March 5, 2014 Posted March 5, 2014 Yeah...some people know my tendency to review flight sim hardware and not be all that easy to please. It doesn't seem like it should be all that hard, but nothing I've used really feels much like real control sticks and rudder pedals....I've already modeled a design for both that I think would be awesome, and have some plans for serious FFB with the option to run realistic levels of stick forces. Oh to have the time to actually start producing them! I could probably have them made at my company, if I could just convince the bean-counters that it wouldn't cost us too much. There just aren't that many people out there that want this hardware.
OBT-Psycho Posted March 5, 2014 Posted March 5, 2014 that sounds...a bit pricey I like the idea though, hydraulic may help to get rid of the gears we sometimes feel moving the stick. It may produce some stronger FFB to better simulate the locking of controls in certains situations, and hall sensors are just perfect for joystick. But anyway, more thant 2K$ is way, I mean WAY out of my budget for stick. 300$ is what I would put into a hotas, but no way it is going into a single stick. I own a G940, and despite all its imperfections, I really enjoy the heck out of it. And the lak of FFB on this week early access get me off the sim for the session. and regarding how many people have a FFB stick, there is definitely a market to be filled here since there is no more company making a FFB system at the moment. So I eagerly look forward for the next generation of FFB
VO101_MMaister Posted March 5, 2014 Posted March 5, 2014 Paccus is a great initiative I think. Using hydraulics instead of electromotors will give much more realistic feedback + this is the only way to produce high enough torque without too much power usage for full length control sticks and pedals. I mailed Paccus recently to get an update about the company. They are working on a consumer product, and they plan to show it to the public this year. I do not have any detailed info about it. Hopefully it will be more affordable and have more ac control stick alike design. MM
Pudfark Posted March 5, 2014 Posted March 5, 2014 My two centavos.... Everything about hydraulics is great.....until they leak.
VO101_MMaister Posted March 5, 2014 Posted March 5, 2014 My two centavos.... Everything about hydraulics is great.....until they leak. Well, it is hard to disagree:)
VR-DriftaholiC Posted March 5, 2014 Posted March 5, 2014 Why not the electromagnetic rout like that FFB yoke on kickstarter
Allons Posted March 12, 2014 Posted March 12, 2014 You mean this one? https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/irisdynamics/affordable-force-feedback-flight-sim-control-yoke?ref=live
OBT-Psycho Posted March 12, 2014 Posted March 12, 2014 I bet he does. But I can think of a couple of reason why electromagnectic would work on such a yoke and not on a joystick, axis wise for instance. Here there is only a axle going through the base. It can easily be linked to a electromagnet to reflect force. But what about a joystick, where things are a bit different. There you have a pivot, and need to run force through this 2-axis pivot. so it might be complicated. BTW hydraulics may be the key. As stated, you don't want it to leaked, but I think a good QC would get rid of this problem
Pudfark Posted March 12, 2014 Posted March 12, 2014 I think? Electromagnetic is the way to go as the force can be controlled electronically by voltage, instead of a pump hydraulically. If cost/maintenance is no object? Combine them and let the "hydraulics" be used to "dampen" the forces. Anything that has a "wear" factor to it is going to wear out, be it hydraulic or electric motor gears. My vote would be for EM electromagnetic. 1
VR-DriftaholiC Posted March 12, 2014 Posted March 12, 2014 (edited) I think you could do an electromagnetic ffb stick http://www.engineeringmatters.com/EngineeringMatters_Project_FFB.pdf with hydraulic dampening would be epic Edited March 12, 2014 by driftaholic 1
OBT-Psycho Posted March 13, 2014 Posted March 13, 2014 ok, that is what I was talking about. so there is a simple way to use electromagnets for FFB effect. So if anybody happens to see a kickstarter or some sort of crowdfunding projet for such a stick, please let me (us?) know
VO101_MMaister Posted March 21, 2014 Posted March 21, 2014 The solution is ready and available. Only a company is needed who is willing to license it and create a commercial product from it. I mailed them. Unfortunately they don`t have any products to sell, only the license. Still, it is so nice! http://www.engineeringmatters.com/ForceFeedbackJoystick.pdf 1
I-WVoss Posted April 4, 2014 Posted April 4, 2014 Hello, how many thousands of dollars is the cost of the license?
VO101_MMaister Posted April 4, 2014 Posted April 4, 2014 Hello, how many thousands of dollars is the cost of the license? I have no idea! Can be one big amount or some royalty for each sold stick using their technology!
=IRFC=Jorri Posted April 4, 2014 Posted April 4, 2014 Then go all the way and make it a full-ltngth flight stick, that you put on the ground.
VR-DriftaholiC Posted April 4, 2014 Posted April 4, 2014 Better to make the length modular as everyone would have different preferences.
Sokol1 Posted April 4, 2014 Posted April 4, 2014 And make costing under 1000$... Realistically, are a possible plans for F.F stick from VKB. From Sukhoi: As for devices with return (force) (force feedback) is once again talking about our plans.1) We do a simulator for the military. Tentative date - summer.2) Before sending military simulator we give it to the test in 777.3) Only after receiving confirmation from the 777 that our development is good for the CPB (il-2 BoS) - we begin to develop a civilian version. "Military" FF? Sounds more Force Sense... "Two years, be sure". Sokol1 1
6high Posted April 18, 2014 Posted April 18, 2014 "Shake" the plane: Sokol1 LoL, flying with that device would surely get my neighbours on their feet....they do tolerate the effect if accompanied by female screams, but without them and for about 3 hours nonstop- me thinks not
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